RE: Soaring costs force Canada to reassess health model

RE: Soaring costs force Canada to reassess health model (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion

Message

rulemylife -> RE: Soaring costs force Canada to reassess health model (6/2/2010 4:52:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Jeffff I think Rich's question was valid. I thinks the answer to Rich's question were valid too. I think Richie's question could have been answered by him doing a quick Google search and was only posted to stir the pot, as almost all his posts are.

rulemylife -> RE: Soaring costs force Canada to reassess health model (6/2/2010 5:00:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity Which makes sense. When goods or services are just given away, their real value is obviously lessened. Except they are not "just given away". Something that has been pointed out to you repeatedly on this thread and other threads. Yet you blithely just ignore it.

thompsonx -> RE: Soaring costs force Canada to reassess health model (6/2/2010 7:36:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity Have you ever in your life read a history book? The Soviet Union was an experiment in which they pulled out all of the stops to try to make socialism work, and that experiment went on for well over forty years. So you think the czar was a better deal? The Chinese socialism experiment is over, it has failed after several generations. Obviously you have never been to china which is flooding the u.s. with tons of cheap merchandise...yeah they are all starving in the streets and are crying for the emperor to return. Cuba is failing, For fifty plus years the most powerful nation on earth has tried to crush that country. We have invaded it and got our asses kicked. We have tried to murder its president a half dozen times and been singularly unsucsessful. We have tried to bully others into not trading with them and still they are there and that just sticks in your ass like a huge cock. North Korea is a failure. They are such a huge failure that we don't have the balls to try to fuck with them militarily since the last time they gave the u.s. army a spanking. and the European model is in a steep nose dive. Rhetoric with out substance Venezuela is going to hell under their big socialist moron... That "socialist moron" got reelected to a second six year term after the u.s. tried to kill him. But you think the fascist dictators who ruled as our proxy were a better deal. It seems your high republican ideals only support dictators and have no support for the will of the people who are governed. Why do you hate the foundations of american freedom?

Brain -> RE: Soaring costs force Canada to reassess health model (6/2/2010 8:49:21 PM)
This doesn't concern me in the least. There is still much waste in the Canadian healthcare system. Drug companies and some medical professionals are making too much money. I think in the long run health care will be improved - getting more value for money. I would love to see Harper try to cut health-care spending or privatize it in Canada because the conservative Party will be reduced to third party minority status.

Brain -> RE: Soaring costs force Canada to reassess health model (6/2/2010 8:53:46 PM)
Since you know so much about them you should apply for a position with Blue Cross. quote: ORIGINAL: pahunkboy Lucy wants to serve on the death panel.

cuckoldmepls -> RE: Soaring costs force Canada to reassess health model (6/2/2010 9:00:04 PM)
Even more revealing is the fact that Greece is required to privatize their health care system as a condition of the bailout. We tried to tell you people that socialism never works unless a more successful capitalist economy subsidizes them. So who's going to subsidize us? http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/01/business/global/01euro.html?src=mv

MrRodgers -> RE: Soaring costs force Canada to reassess health model (6/2/2010 9:19:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Moonhead "Experiment"? For fuck's sake, Sanity, they've been running this system for longer than you've been alive. It's hardly an experiment, particularly one set up by some barking mad right leaning type to demonstrate that socialised medicine cannot possibly work in the real world. Or if it is, somebody who's read far too much Ayn Rand fucked up big time when they were setting it up... Well yea, one could say that there is a small world of believers in the Ayn Rand world, where there are no truths not discovered in an exchange of wealth in the pursuit of a profit. They really don't know how to act when it is discovered there is another world out there. So first things first...there is NO Such THING as FREE health care. Somebody pays for it. The difference is, Canada believes health care should serve society where in the US, we believe health care should serve investors...the profiteers. So the Canadians have to deal with the unfortunate, debilitating and most important...profit shaking fact...living about 3 years longer. What foolishness. Who do those Canadians think they are ? I say the US reassess the Pentagon. You know, the place that can magically 'disappear' $300 million right into thin air without a single firing or reprimand. Nice work, if you can get it.

TheHeretic -> RE: Soaring costs force Canada to reassess health model (6/2/2010 9:25:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Jeffff I think Rich's question was valid. I thinks the answer to Rich's question were valid too. Nice to know a couple people knew I wasn't expecting the answer to be "nothing."

domiguy -> RE: Soaring costs force Canada to reassess health model (6/2/2010 9:35:14 PM)
Sanity is a small minded person that thinks without profits that all human endeavors cease to exist. That charity is for the weak. That medicare is not socialized medicine. The reality is we have a huge problem. A surgeon can bill medicare over $17,000 for a hip replacement....Medicare might approve one tenth that amount. Either way not bad for around an hours work. You want to stay competitive in a global marketplace?....Fix the cost of health care. You will find that you attract a "better" class of Drs and at the same time achieve an overall healthier population.

Brain -> RE: Soaring costs force Canada to reassess health model (6/2/2010 9:44:44 PM)
Knowing you better now I’m sure these answers to your questions will not be satisfactory. Canadian Research Breakthrough Holds Promise for Development of Effective Cancer Therapies — Mount Sinai Hospital http://www.mountsinai.on.ca/about_us/news/2009/canadian-research-breakthrough-holds-promise-for-development-of-effective-cancer-therapies BU News - Brandon University celebrates new Chemistry and Biology research laboratories "In recent years, the Faculty of Science has benefited from an influx of young, vibrant researchers combined with federal/provincial funding that has allowed them to build and equip new laboratories," says Brandon University Dean of Science Dr. Austin F. Gulliver. "These same researchers also bring an enthusiasm and expertise to their teaching that is much appreciated by their students." Dr. Berry came to Brandon University in 2004 from ALviva Biopharmaceuticals Inc., a pharmaceutical spin-off company from the University of Saskatchewan. His research focuses primarily on diseases associated with the brain, including various neurodegenerative disorders. Dr. Berry’s Cell Biology and Neuroscience Laboratories received approximately $350,000 from the CFI, the MRIF, and BU. "Diseases such as Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, schizophrenia and depression represent some of the largest unmet treatment needs in Western society," says Dr. Berry. "This new infra-structure will allow the processes occurring at the level of individual cells, including nerve cells, to be studied, and to investigate how control mechanisms are altered in various diseases. Ways in which such alterations can be corrected, with the possibility of identifying new therapies, can then be investigated. Of the potential sites of action for new drugs that have been identified in the human genome, in excess of 80% are either proteins known as enzymes or proteins known as receptors. This funding will allow such protein targets to be investigated for the first time at Brandon University." http://www2.brandonu.ca/news-archive/article.asp?A_ID=1547 Robot's Gentle Touch Aids Delicate Cancer Surgery ScienceDaily (Aug. 24, 2009) — New, delicate surgery techniques to hunt for tumours could benefit from a lighter touch – but from a robot, rather than from a human hand. Canadian researchers have created a touchy-feely robot that detects tougher tumour tissue in half the time, and with 40% more accuracy than a human. The technique also minimises tissue damage. http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/08/090821135017.htm quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic quote: ORIGINAL: Arpig For the last time...its not "free" health care, its a publicly funded single-payer health insurance system that is slightly different in each province. Every employed Canadian pays for his/her insurance through their taxes and/or a special means-based health levy (again depending on the province). And even though we manage to cover everybody and without copays or deductables for almost 100% of medical care we still pay less per capita than Americans do for their private health insurance. In Ontario (whose system I am familiar with) it is paid for by a percentage of one's income tax and a special payroll tax paid by the employer. It isn't free, I pay for my coverage, I just pay a fuck of a lot less than you guys do. We have no pre-existing conditions, everybody is covered, and if you move to a new province you are covered there, regardless of any pre-existing conditions. I do not have to get approval from anybody (no bureaucrats, governmental or insurance company enters into the decisions at any stage) for any procedure my doctor deems necessary, there is no rationing based on age or income, and nothing needs to be pre-approved by anybody. I can buy supplemental insurance (often provided through one's employer) to cover those things not covered by the government plan (in Ontario that includes prescriptions and dental) However there is a prescription plan for low income people whereby each prescription only costs $2 (which many smaller private pharmacies waive) which is entirely means-based with no extra fees and covers all medically necessary drugs (not viagra/cialis or rogaine for example). All this and still we manage to pay less per person than Americans pay for their health plans with their high deductables, complicated formularies that vary from company to company and from plan to plan within a given company, and byzantine paperwork and convoluted negotiations for hospitals. I'll take our "experiment" over yours anyday. What breakthroughs are coming from your research hospitals? What new drugs and treatments from your labs? How many new surgical procedures have been developed?

Brain -> RE: Soaring costs force Canada to reassess health model (6/2/2010 9:48:27 PM)
You guys are deusional Kool-aid drinkers. quote: ORIGINAL: pahunkboy Lets recap. The system is woefully broke. It needs a bail out. So- send money.

Brain -> RE: Soaring costs force Canada to reassess health model (6/2/2010 10:06:22 PM)
Harper has given the banks over $1 billion dollars in tax cuts since he was elected -this will be reversed in the future to pay for healthcare. And he has done nothing about excess ATM bank fees or credit card interest rates. quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity From the angry howlers in the treetops... quote: ORIGINAL: Louve00 Sanity, I think you've done it. You've managed to join the ranks of all the cucks out there. [:D] Back onto the topic - part of the problem with the Canadian experiment is that much of the Canadian public literally believes that its all free: quote: Scotia Capital's Webb said one cost-saving idea may be to make patients aware of how much it costs each time they visit a healthcare professional. "(The public) will use the services more wisely if they know how much it's costing," she said. "If it's absolutely free with no information on the cost and the information of an alternative that would be have been more practical, then how can we expect the public to wisely use the service?" But change may come slowly. Universal healthcare is central to Canada's national identity, and decisions are made as much on politics as economics. "It's an area that Canadians don't want to see touched," said TD's Burleton. "Essentially it boils down the wishes of the population. But I think, from an economist's standpoint, we point to the fact that sometimes Canadians in the short term may not realize the cost." Which makes sense. When goods or services are just given away, their real value is obviously lessened.

MrRodgers -> RE: Soaring costs force Canada to reassess health model (6/2/2010 10:16:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity Have you ever in your life read a history book? The Soviet Union was an experiment in which they pulled out all of the stops to try to make socialism work, and that experiment went on for well over forty years. So you think the czar was a better deal? The Chinese socialism experiment is over, it has failed after several generations. Obviously you have never been to china which is flooding the u.s. with tons of cheap merchandise...yeah they are all starving in the streets and are crying for the emperor to return. Cuba is failing, For fifty plus years the most powerful nation on earth has tried to crush that country. We have invaded it and got our asses kicked. We have tried to murder its president a half dozen times and been singularly unsucsessful. We have tried to bully others into not trading with them and still they are there and that just sticks in your ass like a huge cock. North Korea is a failure. They are such a huge failure that we don't have the balls to try to fuck with them militarily since the last time they gave the u.s. army a spanking. and the European model is in a steep nose dive. Rhetoric with out substance Venezuela is going to hell under their big socialist moron... That "socialist moron" got reelected to a second six year term after the u.s. tried to kill him. But you think the fascist dictators who ruled as our proxy were a better deal. It seems your high republican ideals only support dictators and have no support for the will of the people who are governed. Why do you hate the foundations of american freedom? I disagree with Sanity too on this subject but your post is full of errors. The Soviet Union was an experiment in communism. Communism is an economic model that collectivizes ownership of all property, not just the means of production. This collectivization requires a comprehensive central govt. (Kremlin/Politburo) control to the extent it must become a form of fascism. Socialism is an economic model where the govt. ownership of most (partial) or all of the various means of production...ONLY. No matter what the capitalist propaganda would have you believe. Socialism allows for the private ownership of most everything else including land and private ownership in stock corporations. China is the future...capitalist fascism. China is the capitalists wet-dream, a billion slaves from whom to skim riches as the so-called communist enjoys now. The idea that all of this sits well with that rural, ignorant slave labor of China is a ridiculous joke. They put the Greeks and all others to shame with 70,000-80,000 riots every year. The govt. just has more bullets. Cuba is failing and that failure has been prolonged by handouts from the fascist leftist friends like Chavez's oil for example. Despite what the US did (nothing for 30 years) Cuba is an impoverished 3rd world country still and you'll die 10-12 years younger. That it is still there is like saying the moon is still there. North Korea is a fascist jail of slaves that can't even afford to feed their own slaves. So they reply upon the fascists cousins in China to bail them out. The N. Koreans in the Korean war did no such thing. The Chinese use of and death of millions of peasants and Harry Truman are the only reasons MacArthur didn't go all of the way to Pyongyang. The European model values economy that serves society at large not almost exclusively investors like the US. Europe is no more of a steep nosedive than the US. If you are referring to the bankers socialism with a $Trillion dollars of more socialism for the rich...they are very much like us. Venezuela is quickly now going to hell. Being objective, Venezuela is sham democracy with the opposition being all but destroyed.Their economy has nothing but oil and for an oil rich nation, they could become the leftist version of the Mexican model of a rightist oligarchy. The only real difference being that Mexico has enjoyed the good fortune of being on our border and the beneficiary of 2 US bailouts. The clock is ticking toward that great rightest Mexican capitalist success of yet...another bailout.

Brain -> RE: Soaring costs force Canada to reassess health model (6/2/2010 10:18:18 PM)
Greeks cheat on their income taxes - Canadians are honest – the 2 countries are too different to compare. quote: ORIGINAL: cuckoldmepls Even more revealing is the fact that Greece is required to privatize their health care system as a condition of the bailout. We tried to tell you people that socialism never works unless a more successful capitalist economy subsidizes them. So who's going to subsidize us? http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/01/business/global/01euro.html?src=mv

DomYngBlk -> RE: Soaring costs force Canada to reassess health model (6/3/2010 4:00:02 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity Is Canada's "free" health care experiment too expensive to sustain? quote: Soaring costs force Canada to reassess health model TORONTO (Reuters) – Pressured by an aging population and the need to rein in budget deficits, Canada's provinces are taking tough measures to curb healthcare costs, a trend that could erode the principles of the popular state-funded system. Ontario, Canada's most populous province, kicked off a fierce battle with drug companies and pharmacies when it said earlier this year it would halve generic drug prices and eliminate "incentive fees" to generic drug manufacturers. British Columbia is replacing block grants to hospitals with fee-for-procedure payments and Quebec has a new flat health tax and a proposal for payments on each medical visit -- an idea that critics say is an illegal user fee. And a few provinces are also experimenting with private funding for procedures such as hip, knee and cataract surgery. It's likely just a start as the provinces, responsible for delivering healthcare, cope with the demands of a retiring baby-boom generation. Official figures show that senior citizens will make up 25 percent of the population by 2036. "There's got to be some change to the status quo whether it happens in three years or 10 years," said Derek Burleton, senior economist at Toronto-Dominion Bank. Full article here I guess you are saying that your employer/health care provider are going to work to help you "you" control costs? LOL........Is the sky blue in your world? The very article is reason enough to show why the US needs such a system. As a collective the Gov't of Ontario has the power to wage war on Doctors or Pharma. Again, do you happen to be able to get anyone at Merck on the phone to talk about Pharma costs? Damn

pahunkboy -> RE: Soaring costs force Canada to reassess health model (6/3/2010 4:04:10 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Brain You guys are deusional Kool-aid drinkers. quote: ORIGINAL: pahunkboy Lets recap. The system is woefully broke. It needs a bail out. So- send money. Re-read the OP.

Louve00 -> RE: Soaring costs force Canada to reassess health model (6/3/2010 4:08:15 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity From the angry howlers in the treetops... quote: ORIGINAL: Louve00 Sanity, I think you've done it. You've managed to join the ranks of all the cucks out there. [:D] Which makes sense. When goods or services are just given away, their real value is obviously lessened. First of all, you need to get it through your thick head that nothing is given away. The Canadians pay dearly for their health care thru taxes. You complain about taxes here. [8\|] Second of all, you need to bring your nose back across the boarder and worry about problems here instead of knocking a country who's completely satisfied with their health care AND have their health care. Did you ever think health care was cheap?? Yea, maybe in the days when GE and Siemens wasn't around to make technology an astronomically expensive thing. When dr's went door to door and insurance wasn't even heard of, then maybe we could all grasp the financial cost of the matter. Quit going off the deep end about something that the country you're bitching about isn't. What's your point, anyway??

DomYngBlk -> RE: Soaring costs force Canada to reassess health model (6/3/2010 4:18:59 AM)
Sanity is another Health Care denier who wants to think that somehow because his company gives him health care coverage that he pays too much for that somehow he has choice. What he and others can't get into their brains is that they have to call each time to their provider and some administrator errrrrrrrrr Doctor sits on the other end of the call deciding if the Insurance company will pay for it or not. This is what they call choice.........and god bless them they like being told what to do by someone over the phone.....Hence Phone Dom/Dommes...

Sanity -> RE: Soaring costs force Canada to reassess health model (6/3/2010 5:31:58 AM)
Theres good reason for lumping them all together, they're both (along with modern Liberalism / Progressivism) based on the same premise, which is a worship of government as a sort of nanny god. [sm=bowdown.gif] Empower government. [sm=bowdown.gif]Government can be efficient. [sm=bowdown.gif]Government knows better than the individual. [sm=bowdown.gif]Government deserves ever increasing power over individual rights. And individuals in possession of more than their fair share are criminals - no one can truly be equal until the individual has nothing. quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 Here we have it, socialism and communism all lumped as one. Britain isnt a socialist country but we do have socialist principals. The whole thing about the NHS, and get this, is we are willing to pay more tax, so that everyone gets equal health care. It isnt perfect, but it isnt falling apart at the seams either.

Sanity -> RE: Soaring costs force Canada to reassess health model (6/3/2010 5:52:06 AM)
You unwittingly (no pun intended) put your finger on how socialism is in large part responsible for the skyrocketing costs of America's health care system. Providers can bill government for $400 toilet seats and $1000 hammers and the government will pay it, which then becomes the accepted cost for everyone because of the laws of supply and demand. Government will pay $4000 for a wheel chair that normally sells for $1000? Why let it go for a measly thousand then. Merc (I believe it was Merc) has detailed the electric wheel chair scams and how such scams affect everyones costs, and that Medicare pushes a lions share of the costs that it artificially generates within the system off onto private insurance and ultimately onto individual citizens. Government does a great job of getting in the way and though it may be well intentioned it doesn't seem that there is ever any effort put in to trimming waste or ensuring that its not making itself more of a burden on the system than a help. Bureaucrats don't have to care, their funding doesn't depend on job performance and they know that if they trim costs then they're trimming their own jobs back. quote: ORIGINAL: domiguy Sanity is a small minded person that thinks without profits that all human endeavors cease to exist. That charity is for the weak. That medicare is not socialized medicine. The reality is we have a huge problem. A surgeon can bill medicare over $17,000 for a hip replacement....Medicare might approve one tenth that amount. Either way not bad for around an hours work. You want to stay competitive in a global marketplace?....Fix the cost of health care. You will find that you attract a "better" class of Drs and at the same time achieve an overall healthier population.

Page: << < prev 2 3 [4] 5 6 next > >>

Collarchat.com © 2025

Terms of Service

0.046875