RE: Free heroin gives good results (Full Version)

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thompsonx -> RE: Free heroin gives good results (6/4/2010 5:52:30 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Louve00

Thompson.  You condescend to people who aren't clear,
No I condescend to borish fools who have posted up the same shit over and over again and been called on it over and over again.
You are not one of those. I have noticed your post contain not only fact but an honest desire to engage in discussion.


when you yourself don't make yourself clear, and (in this thread) have not stated the above til......well, just now. 

As I stated above I have made this rant dozens of times and I mistakenly thought you would have known my position as I am hardly a "wall flower" when it comes to stating my position.

In fact, we agree.  Why you chose to ask me "why" to a question you as well relate to in much the same way I do (and I also incorporate the health hazards that a drug addict will ignore while searching for his next high, or attempting to get there), I don't know.  But now I can quit worrying (although, I was never really worried, but just interested in the way you were debating with me), I can quit thinking you'd be willing to trash a life, just to make yours more enjoyable.

I believe that we most likely agree on more than we disagree.[;)]

Me thinks, you just like to argue...sometimes to a fault.  But there is nothing wrong with that. I suppose thats what forums are about.  Carry on!  [;)] 





Brain -> RE: Free heroin gives good results (6/4/2010 6:14:39 PM)

No, my ex said I'm a moron and dumbass, I guess she's right.


quote:

ORIGINAL: DarlingSavage

Oh Brain, don't you know that heroin addicts are sub human and are not worthy of those things?





Brain -> RE: Free heroin gives good results (6/4/2010 6:21:13 PM)


We have our own version of George Bush in Canada, Steven Harper, so no I don't think so.

quote:

ORIGINAL: eyesopened

Why just to the White House or to California?

Wouldn't this be interesting to Ottowa as well?  Or don't they have heroin, theft or prostitution in Canada?





thompsonx -> RE: Free heroin gives good results (6/4/2010 6:22:23 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aynne88

That. I love you Thompson ;)



The old reprobate opens the door to his "back seat 38 Dodge" and motions her foreward and offers a bottle of olympia as enticement while adding the encouragement "if you love me..."





thishereboi -> RE: Free heroin gives good results (6/4/2010 6:26:39 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brain


We have our own version of George Bush in Canada, Steven Harper, so no I don't think so.

quote:

ORIGINAL: eyesopened

Why just to the White House or to California?

Wouldn't this be interesting to Ottowa as well?  Or don't they have heroin, theft or prostitution in Canada?




Well maybe you should start concentrating on your own country and quit worrying so much about the neighbors to the south.




zephyroftheNorth -> RE: Free heroin gives good results (6/4/2010 6:30:19 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aynne88

That. I love you Thompson ;)



The old reprobate opens the door to his "back seat 38 Dodge" and motions her foreward and offers a bottle of olympia as enticement while adding the encouragement "if you love me..."



You may want to rethink that Thommy, apparently she's prego with Domi's spawn

http://www.collarchat.com/m_3241079/mpage_1/tm.htm





thompsonx -> RE: Free heroin gives good results (6/4/2010 6:42:59 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: zephyroftheNorth

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aynne88

That. I love you Thompson ;)



The old reprobate opens the door to his "back seat 38 Dodge" and motions her foreward and offers a bottle of olympia as enticement while adding the encouragement "if you love me..."



You may want to rethink that Thommy, apparently she's prego with Domi's spawn

http://www.collarchat.com/m_3241079/mpage_1/tm.htm




She's hawt and I'm a slut....
werx for me.





zephyroftheNorth -> RE: Free heroin gives good results (6/4/2010 6:50:53 PM)

quote:

She's hawt and I'm a slut....
werx for me.


Well okaaaay just don't come crying to me when the demon spawn from hell rips your throat out.

to clarify... that would be the baby....not Aynne




thompsonx -> RE: Free heroin gives good results (6/4/2010 7:26:04 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: zephyroftheNorth

quote:

She's hawt and I'm a slut....
werx for me.


Well okaaaay just don't come crying to me when the demon spawn from hell rips your throat out.

to clarify... that would be the baby....not Aynne



It is early in the game it is only qp to q4...lets see where she goes...hopefully lacma.




Aynne88 -> RE: Free heroin gives good results (6/5/2010 3:32:26 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: zephyroftheNorth

quote:

She's hawt and I'm a slut....
werx for me.


Well okaaaay just don't come crying to me when the demon spawn from hell rips your throat out.

to clarify... that would be the baby....not Aynne




lol!![:D].




zephyroftheNorth -> RE: Free heroin gives good results (6/5/2010 4:57:57 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aynne88


quote:

ORIGINAL: zephyroftheNorth

quote:

She's hawt and I'm a slut....
werx for me.


Well okaaaay just don't come crying to me when the demon spawn from hell rips your throat out.

to clarify... that would be the baby....not Aynne




lol!![:D].


*grins* well I didn't want them to get the wrong idea.




LadyEllen -> RE: Free heroin gives good results (6/5/2010 5:13:57 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

Well maybe you should start concentrating on your own country and quit worrying so much about the neighbors to the south.



Its an intervention THB

You see, we do worry about you all since you left home.......

E




NeedToUseYou -> RE: Free heroin gives good results (6/5/2010 6:30:29 AM)

I think we should give out heroin to addicts. And to address how to pay for it. We will open up brothels that the women can work in as sex workers, and use the male addicts to distribute and track the drug usage, and manage the female sex workers. We then take the profits after tax and produce more heroine.








thishereboi -> RE: Free heroin gives good results (6/5/2010 7:51:03 AM)

quote:

Its an intervention THB

You see, we do worry about you all since you left home.......

E


awwww, thanks for caring[:)]




kdsub -> RE: Free heroin gives good results (6/5/2010 9:20:36 PM)

I just don’t understand how any thinking adult would say…Lets give them free poison so they won’t rob anyone...yea that’s really thinking of the addict. It will kill them after costing a fortune in medical care but… at least they will not be breaking into my car.

How about giving them free mandatory substance abuse treatment…as many times as it takes.

Butch




calamitysandra -> RE: Free heroin gives good results (6/6/2010 4:16:43 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I just don’t understand how any thinking adult would say…Lets give them free poison so they won’t rob anyone...yea that’s really thinking of the addict. It will kill them after costing a fortune in medical care but… at least they will not be breaking into my car.

How about giving them free mandatory substance abuse treatment…as many times as it takes.

Butch



At least here, they get that first, and second, and third, and so forth.

As I wrote above, those programs are restricted to cases in which truly all hope is lost.
The objective is not only to protect society, they also give people who had absolutely no perspective any more, a chance for a at least marginally normal live. They take away the pressure of needing to score the next fix, and allow the addicts to focus on other areas of his/her life for the first time in many years.

Those programs are a kindness for those who are terminally addicted.





kiwisub12 -> RE: Free heroin gives good results (6/6/2010 5:38:06 AM)

Agreed - and cheaper for society in the long run.

And for general information, withdrawl from heroin is so painful that doctors have put addicts into comas during the worst of it.




Termyn8or -> RE: Free heroin gives good results (6/6/2010 5:55:07 AM)

FR

I have long supported the idea of government non-intervention when it comes to intoxicants, citing the failure of prohibition and such, and can make a good case. Even to go so far as to say to let them kill themselves with the shit. However a sane Man is able to reconsider his position on most matters, and at this point I am. I am dealing with a few "ex" crack addists now and I see something from a perspective I have not seen before, that is that coke/crack is a dangerous substance. While I have not changed my position right now, it is in contention.

Now I have done just about every drug out there except for heroin and magic mushrooms. And what's been said about crack is not true, it IS the purest form of cocaine, I have seen the process to make it. That process removes all the cut, which renders it unsnortable because it will eat away at you. The cut is needed or else you will get a serious nosebleed after doing a line. Once in it's pure form it can only be smoked or injected. Smoking is damn near as good because if you have healthy lungs it gets into your bloodstream really fast, and rather than a vein in the arm, the lungs will feed it to the brain directly, making it the method of choice for many. There is another very effective method - foils. To do foils you mix it with some soda, and smear it on a piece of aluminum foil perhaps two feet long. You smoke it using a top from a two liter soda pop bottle. The method offers a very fast level of injestion, and very good controlability. However it usually takes two people. And there are two heatings of the substance on the foil, the first pass basically "free bases" it and then the second is when you hit it. I could never get the hang of the first pass. When you use a stem and your lungs are full, there is some inevitable loss. But let's not dwell on that.

Where I am coming from here is that while I maintain that the government has no right to regulate or prohibit things that get you high, with the things I've seen in life I am starting to think that crack and smack are dangerous substances. Now most of us want the proper entity, which would be the government to prohibit putting poisons in our food and water. Wishing the FDA would do it's damn job. Having personally seen what it can do to people, perhaps it is not a recreational drug, but indeed a toxic substance. That changes the whole equation for me.

We are talking a guy who used to make around a hundred grand a year, and now has a TV and a bed as all his worldly posessions. Another who commited a robbery and when confronted maimed the guy so bad he went to prisoin for twenty years. Talk about remorse, they have it. Nonetheless they need occasional reminders not to again fall into that hole. And they KNOW exactly what it will do to them, but the addiction is that strong.

Nowadays, I do hard drugs perhaps once a year. I don't like them enough to have a problem and/or I am simply not an addictive personality. I thank my lucky stars for whatever reason I am not addicted, because like I said I have tried almost everything. I used to do it all the time though, and with decent earning power never got myself into alot of trouble i.e. owing the dopeman. I liked to do T on Christmas (pharmeceutical PCP) but gave that up because being high like that I saw I was missing out on part of the experience. Really I never gave a shit about Christmas but it was family time. I stopped.

I stopped because I wanted to stop. I had no rehab or anything like that, but over the years I have found that others are not like me. Why I am this way is anyone's guess, but it may have something to do with the fact that though my upbringing was not all that stern and structured, indications of weakness or stupidity were not tolerated, and I mean really not tolerated. That may or may not have something to do with it, or it could just be a matter of body chemistry. I am not sure.

But just because I don't need to be protected from it, that doesn't mean the same is true for everyone. Many people are weak, and will succumb to an intoxicant. At this point, am I my brother's keeper ? Should I be ?

Which brings up the question, should the law protect the weak, or enable the strong ? As usual, more questions than answers.

T




kdsub -> RE: Free heroin gives good results (6/6/2010 5:56:30 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: calamitysandra


At least here, they get that first, and second, and third, and so forth.

As I wrote above, those programs are restricted to cases in which truly all hope is lost.
The objective is not only to protect society, they also give people who had absolutely no perspective any more, a chance for a at least marginally normal live. They take away the pressure of needing to score the next fix, and allow the addicts to focus on other areas of his/her life for the first time in many years.

Those programs are a kindness for those who are terminally addicted.



calamitysandra your posts usually make sense and I respect them but the above is not right...there is no such thing as beyond hope when it comes to substance abuse. Death by the effects of heroin is far worse than forced treatment even if it means a sanitarium. Hell why not just put them to sleep and put them out of their misery. Giving them a terrible poison… the very thing that is killing them is no mercy.

Butch




Elisabella -> RE: Free heroin gives good results (6/6/2010 6:17:39 AM)

Heroin and cocaine are definitely dangerous substances. They are toxic and potentially lethal.

However, I don't think there are many people who don't know this. It's sort of like cigarettes - if you started smoking in the 60's, I feel bad for you. If you started smoking last week, you know the risks and you choose to take them. C'est la vie.

I disagree with you kdsub on two things - first there is such thing as a point of no return for an addict, at least from what I've seen, someone who's been using heroin for the past 30 years has made it a part of their life. They might be able to replace it with something like methadone, or slip into a 12-step fervor potent enough to counteract the knowledge that every single thing about life is more pleasant when under the effects of a strong opiate, but after that length of time you're not going to go back to "normal" - I only used drugs for a few years and I still don't feel normal without opiates. Or rather, I do feel normal, and normal is a shit way to live in comparison. So I smoke pot now, and I reminisce about doing x or h or k, or even coke, and to be honest I doubt there will ever be a day in my life where I'd say I prefer sobriety to opiates. There's no comparison. There's a reason people get addicted to drugs. They feel fucking incredible.

I also disagree that death is "far worse than forced treatment" - maybe death is worse for the people left behind, but treatment only works if the person wants it, so forcing someone to go through opiate withdrawl when they have no desire to quit opiates is unnecessarily cruel. You can't torture someone into preferring sobriety. It doesn't work, it only emphasizes how much sobriety sucks. And for the sort of people that Sandra was talking about, people who have used opiates for decades who have no desire or inclination to stop, well I can say that if I were imagining myself in their shoes, and my choice was slipping into an OD death at 40 or spending the years from 40-70 being held against my will and forced into repeated opiate withdrawl, I'd choose death. Easily. I'd rather lose 30 years off my life than spend those 30 years in fear and agony.




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