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RE: What defines us as separate us apart from anyone else? - 4/11/2006 4:38:48 AM   
Scarlettred78


Posts: 9
Joined: 1/13/2005
Status: offline 		I read these message boards all the time and almost never reply to them. But I really enjoyed what you wrote, so felt moved to reply. I first became introduced to the "scene" over in Germany. I lived there for 4 years. Over there (and all over Europe) BDSM is much more common then here in the states. Here BDSM is  more watered down and politically correct. That is a "generalization" guys I am NOT applying that to everyone. For example 90% of the beaches in Europe are topless for the women. Its not uncommon to see a mother walking on a beach holding a child in each arm with her breast exposed. Do that here in the states in public and social services would take your kids for indecent exposer and brand you a petifile and put you on a national data base. I agree totally about the "traditional" roles of Men and women and what you said about past century's. To me BDSM has very little to do with "sex" or "kink"  to me this lifestyle is about unconditional love, trust, respect, discipline, devotion, honor, and self sacrifice. But unfortunately a lot of people bring a "carnival" atmosphere to something at least in mind is a cherished thing between people. Sometimes when we go to scene events, half the people that attend them make me feel like I am at a Halloween party instead of a BDSM affair. But I get amused at some of the get up's people wear and look at the wanna b' Dom's walking around with flogger's hanging off there hips "looking like telephone repair men"  and just laugh to my self. But when you weed thru freak show you can meet some really awesome people. Once upon a time having respect, class and good manners was common. Today its an alternate lifestyle. kisses....scarlettred

(in reply to KnightofMists)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: What defines us as separate us apart from anyone else? - 4/11/2006 5:11:50 AM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline 		What seperates the bdsm community from the rest is merely self identification as a member of the bdsm community. Certainly not kink because I've come across every kink I've experienced in the bdsm community with people who don't identify themselves as part of the bdsm community.

Being a member of a club, no matter how loose or unofficial that club is, one has to recognise the club exists first.

< Message edited by meatcleaver -- 4/11/2006 5:12:26 AM >

(in reply to SoulfulSadism)
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RE: What defines us as separate us apart from anyone else? - 4/11/2006 5:39:33 AM   
slavejali


Posts: 2918
Status: offline
quote:


Original Quote: thetammyjo
For me, those in a subculture stick together in the face of anyone opposing their core values or beliefs. There may be infighting but when it comes to being tackled by the general society, the subculture and those in it stand their ground.


That's a really good point.

quote:


Original Quote: Wyrdrich
We have brought this out of the subconscious realm and to me, that is what separates us.


Yes, its a very conscious thing participating in a bdsm relationship, I think its given a lot of people some framework to work from...and in that, even though the dynamics have and do play out elsewhere, it brings a lot of things together that were kinda scattered around..and in that it does become original. Kinda like Bruce Lee, he borrowed a bit from everywhere and came up with a new martial art entirely that is well respected.

quote:


Original Quote: NeedToUseYou
Odds are better of finding a match if one joins a "club" others join that have the same general leanings as oneself. You don't have to go to woodstock to find hippies, but you certainly would of found a hell of a lot more than just walking down the street in nowheresville U.SA..
 

So very true, good point  Thankgod for the "club"! I'm glad it exists as a separate entity in and of itself, makes it easier in so many ways.

quote:


Original Quote: ExistentialSteel
The use of pain as an erotic tool appears to be the common, unifying factor of BDSM through the ages and the thing that separates us.


Yes, bdsm is a very well organised tool for learning about and experiencing erotic play through avenues that wouldnt be readily available elsewhere if the bdsm community didnt exist. Good Point


_____________________________

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Different Strokes for Different Folks

"I'll always have a *soft spot* for Sadists"

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RE: What defines us as separate us apart from anyone else? - 4/11/2006 6:10:59 AM   
slavejali


Posts: 2918
Status: offline
quote:


Original Quote: mnottertail
Truthfully? Nothing............


Thats true too...and yet within that nothing there are many differences  heh


quote:

 
Original Quote: cadence
When I found this site, it was that sense of coming home.


Thats how I felt when I was introduced to Master/slave relationship through bdsm. Its an excellent feeling hey

quote:


Original Quote: WyrdRich
Within the context of the question, "What makes us different?"  my thinking is that these needs are going to get fulfilled somehow.  In the community we can express them openly while in the 'nilla world the subconscious finds a way.


So your saying one of the differences is that the bdsm community allows the exploration of primal desires in a more disciplined and safe way...yeah I can really see that too.

quote:


Original Quote: MasterCoyote
Seriously - what sets us apart?  Well - perhaps the fact that what we do is both condemned and misunderstood by all the "normal" people out there.  It forces us misfits together, where we can (hopefully) find trust, comfort, and pleasure in the company of others....and get needs fulfilled that cannot be satisfied elsewhere...


Yes, our kinks and stuff definately unite us and set us apart from a vanilla world definately.

quote:


Original Quote: FangsNFeet
If you tell a vanilla person about having sex while being forced and tied down, slaped in the face, blind folded, and called dirty names, they'll think we're sick in the head. Vanilla is highly more judgmental on how people have sex.


I agree, the type of sex we enjoy sets us apart, for the most part.

quote:

 
Original Quote: starymists
People that you could talk to when different things happened.

 
Yes we definately have unique situations when dealing with bdsm subjects, there are definately things that set us apart.
 
.
.
.

Further Thoughts:
I guess I just started this as a bdsm pride thing. Defining things can make things clearer, seeing differences can make things clearer, respecting what is involved in roots and  evolution, working out how something came to be, sprung up, emerged, set itself apart, can be a wonderfully interesting thing. 
 
To those couple of posters who felt I was being cyncial or jaded, I kinda had to shake my head and I think my eyebrow raised a little, and your comments made me grin a little, I'm neither cyncial nor jaded, I love the bdsm community, I love the life that it has introduced me to. Although I see so many factors within it that have been borrowed from various place, they have been brought together to create a fantastic *club* attracting people from all kinds of backgrounds and all kinds of interests and experiences.

_____________________________

Freedom in Bondage

Different Strokes for Different Folks

"I'll always have a *soft spot* for Sadists"

(in reply to SoulfulSadism)
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RE: What defines us as separate us apart from anyone else? - 4/11/2006 6:15:58 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:


Original Quote: FangsNFeet
If you tell a vanilla person about having sex while being forced and tied down, slaped in the face, blind folded, and called dirty names, they'll think we're sick in the head. Vanilla is highly more judgmental on how people have sex.


I agree, the type of sex we enjoy sets us apart, for the most part.
And I completely disagree.

I think the bdsm scene is JUST as judgemental about how people have sex as vanilla people are (and think about swingers).  A lot of vanillas enjoy at least a bit of kink with their sex, and I know that a LOT of people in bdsm do enjoy sex without kink and play at least occasionally.



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(in reply to slavejali)
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RE: What defines us as separate us apart from anyone else? - 4/11/2006 6:24:23 AM   
slavejali


Posts: 2918
Status: offline
quote:


Original Quote: truesub4u
..... nothing really defines us as being seperate or apart from anyone else... they did. As for the their reason.... fear.


I'm still thinking about that one... I know groups get formed when a few people are doing something that other people arent interested in, or dont like or perhaps even shun..but do you really think bdsm is set apart by other peoples fears?

quote:


Original Quote: SusanofO
jali - I am going to bed now 


Hope you slept well

_____________________________

Freedom in Bondage

Different Strokes for Different Folks

"I'll always have a *soft spot* for Sadists"

(in reply to SoulfulSadism)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: What defines us as separate us apart from anyone else? - 4/11/2006 7:02:43 AM   
slavejali


Posts: 2918
Status: offline
quote:


Original Quote: Scarlettred78
To me BDSM has very little to do with "sex" or "kink"  to me this lifestyle is about unconditional love, trust, respect, discipline, devotion, honor, and self sacrifice. But unfortunately a lot of people bring a "carnival" atmosphere to something at least in mind is a cherished thing between people.


Master was introduced to bdsm while he was living in Europe too, it was in either Belgium or Germany I cant recall and he is asleep so cant ask him. I can really hear your point about sexual expression being so different in various cultures and I do agree, from what I see, that in certain countries where sex is seen as *bad* bdsm is used as a means to circumnavigate that. Its freeing sexually for people in lots of ways. Which isnt necessarily a bad thing hey  So in that context, I would see the sexual aspects and the kinks of bdsm as a separating factor. In my first marriage I didnt know anything about bdsm but  we did bondage, blindfolds, even had a leash used on me now and again blah blah blah..I think however bdsm kicks it up a notch ..its more conscious etc.

quote:


But unfortunately a lot of people bring a "carnival" atmosphere to something at least in mind is a cherished thing between people.


I dont know whether I would classify it as unfortunate *grin*. Ive done the whole club dressing up scene and it was fun at the time..it was a carnival type atmosphere to me as well, which isnt necessarily a bad thing, carnivals can be fun! I havent worn a piece of leather (well apart from my collar in private and my shoes and perhaps a belt or two) or been to a club in years. Sometimes, not often, I miss it, just in times of reflection and how much fun it all was..but really a Master/slave relationship isnt the parties or clothes to me either.....yet at the same time, I can see that the dress-ups are part of the bdsm social scene and even in private for some people..so it could be a separating factor.

quote:


to me this lifestyle is about unconditional love, trust, respect, discipline, devotion, honor, and self sacrifice.


I think those things are what life is about and arent mutally exclusive to this lifestyle...however...from my experience of my Masters they have been very very conscious of those ideals and expect them from me as part of a Master/slave relationship.

Thanks for posting


_____________________________

Freedom in Bondage

Different Strokes for Different Folks

"I'll always have a *soft spot* for Sadists"

(in reply to slavejali)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: What defines us as separate us apart from anyone else? - 4/11/2006 7:08:52 AM   
truesub4u


Posts: 2949
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slavejali

quote:


Original Quote: truesub4u
..... nothing really defines us as being seperate or apart from anyone else... they did. As for the their reason.... fear.


I'm still thinking about that one... I know groups get formed when a few people are doing something that other people arent interested in, or dont like or perhaps even shun..but do you really think bdsm is set apart by other peoples fears?


Not ALL others no. There's probably a group out there that's gathered in the name of just totally not into BDSM or believing in it. Or there may be a group of retired.... or should I say... no longer active. But people fear things they don't know more than not...  studies show this. The fear of the unknown.

So yeah, I see what you're saying about the gather as a group because of likes... but there's also the groups of dislikes. Let's not get political... but the groups that come to mind.... Dem/Rep ..... Pro choice/ Pro Life..... I really think there are groups of opposites in most if not everything. What is that saying.. for each and every reaction, there's a equal and opposite reaction? I think the same falls here as well. We're pro bdsm... there's someone out there thats against bdsm. I am remembered, years ago. There was a group that would go from chat to chat room... and research... find out where local communities gathered. They would go there and try to talk people out of the life. Telling them they were brained washed. Being abused. Etc....etc...etc... so they're out there. Just more active in some area than others.

Perhaps fear was too strong a word, or the wrong word all together. But it still close to it.  But then it's how I see it. And like I said.. not everyone will agree. Don't expect them too. Still think it's a great, interesting post. A thinker. Maybe I thought too far into it.... LOL

< Message edited by truesub4u -- 4/11/2006 7:10:26 AM >

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RE: What defines us as separate us apart from anyone else? - 4/11/2006 7:25:48 AM   
slavejali


Posts: 2918
Status: offline
quote:


Original Quote: truesub4u
There was a group that would go from chat to chat room... and research... find out where local communities gathered. They would go there and try to talk people out of the life. Telling them they were brained washed. Being abused. Etc....etc...etc... so they're out there.


hehe, everyone needs a purpose in life hey...some people think their purpose in life is to talk others outa things they dont wanna be talked out of *grin*

quote:


The fear of the unknown.

The number one fear of mankind

I do get what your saying. In other peoples minds, their own fear and prejudices sets bdsm apart from them. I didnt originally think about how others see us differently , was mainly thinking about how we see ourselves within a bdsm community context as different....but good point.

_____________________________

Freedom in Bondage

Different Strokes for Different Folks

"I'll always have a *soft spot* for Sadists"

(in reply to truesub4u)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: What defines us as separate us apart from anyone else? - 4/11/2006 12:55:16 PM   
FangsNfeet


Posts: 3758
Joined: 12/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:


Original Quote: FangsNFeet
If you tell a vanilla person about having sex while being forced and tied down, slaped in the face, blind folded, and called dirty names, they'll think we're sick in the head. Vanilla is highly more judgmental on how people have sex.


I agree, the type of sex we enjoy sets us apart, for the most part.

And I completely disagree.

I think the bdsm scene is JUST as judgemental about how people have sex as vanilla people are (and think about swingers).  A lot of vanillas enjoy at least a bit of kink with their sex, and I know that a LOT of people in bdsm do enjoy sex without kink and play at least occasionally.



Most vanilla people do see some if not most of the practacies used in BDSM as barbaric, wrong, discusting, and crazy. Most people who are into kink only finds vanilla people to be boreing without the need to be locked up in a mental facility.

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RE: What defines us as separate us apart from anyone else? - 4/11/2006 1:03:22 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FangsNfeet
Most vanilla people do see some if not most of the practacies used in BDSM as barbaric, wrong, discusting, and crazy. Most people who are into kink only finds vanilla people to be boreing without the need to be locked up in a mental facility.


But your distinction was specifically based on the idea that vanillas judge sex more than bdsmer's do.

I think that's completely false.  Kinky people judge other people's sex lives just as much as vanillas do. 

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to FangsNfeet)
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RE: What defines us as separate us apart from anyone else? - 4/11/2006 2:31:40 PM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

What separates the bdsm community from everyone else? What makes it a sub-community realistically?


Bondage, discipline and sadomasochism and the choice to engage in them.

Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


(in reply to slavejali)
Profile   Post #: 32
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