Love in M/s and D/s relationships (Full Version)

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warlock1935 -> Love in M/s and D/s relationships (6/5/2010 9:38:35 AM)

Hi All,
A submissive member and I are having a conversation about love in M/s relationships. The issue we've both heard about is that love tends to ruin the M/s balance by causing the Master to slack off on the harder questions of discipline; one that I wonder about is if the love aspect could cause a slave to be less transparent for fear of hurting her Master's feelings. The first time I personally came up against the first was in my first 24/7, M/s, High Protocol relationship with my slave kitten. I was enormously relieved when towards the end of the first week we spent together, by which time we were madly in love, kitten said something that betrayed a "Suburban Sue" attitude, and I was able to correct her appropriately (IE: Very harshly by my standards; SS is a serious problem IMHOP). I had worried I wouldn't be able to discipline her effectively given how I felt towards her.
How do you feel about this issue, and what experience have you had with it?
~~Warlock


PS- where do I go for help, such as how to make a photo my primary profile picture?




SocratesNot -> RE: Love in M/s and D/s relationships (6/5/2010 9:56:05 AM)

IMO, love can never ruin a relationship, no matter what type of relationship it is.
For all relationships, love can only be a good thing.
M/s and D/s is no different. The only difference is that the authority is in hands of one person.
If this person really loves the slave, he'll find best ways both to guide the slave and to discipline her.
After all, the discipline itself is done for slave's own good.
So, love can't hurt anything, relationship can only benefit from love.
You should embrace these feelings, and not be afraid of them.




LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Love in M/s and D/s relationships (6/5/2010 10:20:14 AM)

I long for the day when people can stop asking this question.

If love is an issue for you, then it is. But there's absolutely no reason love IS or MUST be an issue for anyone at any time. M/s relationships are teeming with love all over the place.




Icarys -> RE: Love in M/s and D/s relationships (6/5/2010 10:28:38 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: warlock1935

Hi All,
A submissive member and I are having a conversation about love in M/s relationships. The issue we've both heard about is that love tends to ruin the M/s balance by causing the Master to slack off on the harder questions of discipline; one that I wonder about is if the love aspect could cause a slave to be less transparent for fear of hurting her Master's feelings. The first time I personally came up against the first was in my first 24/7, M/s, High Protocol relationship with my slave kitten. I was enormously relieved when towards the end of the first week we spent together, by which time we were madly in love, kitten said something that betrayed a "Suburban Sue" attitude, and I was able to correct her appropriately (IE: Very harshly by my standards; SS is a serious problem IMHOP). I had worried I wouldn't be able to discipline her effectively given how I felt towards her.
How do you feel about this issue, and what experience have you had with it?
~~Warlock


PS- where do I go for help, such as how to make a photo my primary profile picture?

Love keeps me doing what I need to do to keep the relationship working the way I want it to. (Short and Sweet)




leadership527 -> RE: Love in M/s and D/s relationships (6/5/2010 10:36:18 AM)

Carol is my slave. She obeys my commands, inside and out.... always.

I love Carol. A LOT.

Honestly, if the alleged "master" cannot both love and discipline, then they are not much of a leader. I would expect a junior manager at work to be able to do so.




Jeffff -> RE: Love in M/s and D/s relationships (6/5/2010 10:37:22 AM)

Yes...... unless it's no.




KnightofMists -> RE: Love in M/s and D/s relationships (6/5/2010 10:50:23 AM)

This seems to be a reoccuring question with regards to M/s and D/s relationships. I wrote the following some time ago... my opinions haven't changed..

==========================================================================

Some may say Love is a hindrance to the M/s dynamic. But, I would say that Love is a fundamental aspect of my M/s Relationships. I couldn't imagine myself having this type of relationship without Love being apart of it.

Love and Respect of thy self... the most Powerful of Motivations... it comes from within...It's the intrinsic motivation that is only limited by oneself and dependent on no one but oneself.

Love for me has always been a Choice as much as it has been a Feeling. My feelings have always been motivated by what I perceive... Be it real or illusion. The choice is to see the truth of what I perceive from the lies. Therefore, one must make the effort to Love! Love will flow like water if you let it. But, water will flow the easiest path... and this could lead you over a cliff. Healthy Thoughtful Love is much more than free flowing water, but just as powerful. We control it, we manage it. We guide it. When it is time to allow it to flow, we let it flow. When we must harness its power, we focus it and feel its power. But we never push it up hill! Remember the flow well pick up everything and can move anything over the course of time. But if allowed to flow uncontrolled, it will wander aimlessly and finally dumping in a pool... its power never focused and utilized.

Love to me binds the people to a relationship. It moves the focus from themselves to focus on the other and the relationship itself. I question when love is not part of the relationship, if the focus ever moves from oneself to the relationship. Without love, I wonder if the individuals are only using the other and the relationship to serve their self-centered interests. Taking what they can and maybe draining the lemon dry, then going to find a new lemon. I wonder if there are some that use the word love, but it is a shallow use of the word instead of the intense devotion that it leads one towards. Love to me is a powerful word if it used with the feelings that back it up. It moves one from the self-centered focus to that of a focus to another person and a relationship. We become givers instead of takers and as result of our giving out of love we receive more than we could ever take. Instead sucking the lemon dry... We plant an orchard and reap the rewards of that effort

I have been in a relationship with Alandra since in summer of ‘87. It was then as is now without question a relationship that is very much a loving and growing relationship. I am also growing a young loving relationship with Kyra that began in spring of ‘05. Frankly, I find it difficult to comprehend how anyone can have an intimate BDSM relationship without love being an important part of that relationship. I suppose it is done, but I have not seen it done successful over a course of many years.

I thought I was in love with Alandra years ago... but I kept finding that day by day our depth of love just kept growing and never stopping. It's to the point that I look to tomorrow with excitement because my experience has showed me that I will be loved and love her even more than I do today. My experience with alandra has also had an extremely positive effect on my relationship with kyra. When I first touched her gently on the cheek that first time we saw each other... I felt a deep sense of love... but today that love seems pale in comparisons to the way I feel now... god I can hardly wait for tomorrow.

My approach is simple in the relationships I am in. Out of love, We become open to be who we are. I seek not to make my girls what they are not... I only seek to support them to shed that which is illusions of them selves, as they support me in doing the same thing. A relationship with me is about bringing the inner self out into the open and being this person. Out of love we accept what comes. This line of thought is nothing new. A noted psychologist termed the word "congruence" Essentially it means that the more we are able to demonstrate that inner self to the world/relationships, The more content/stable and at peace we become. We are happier. The deeper we hid this inner aspect of our self, well it is a path of unhappiness. I see love as a vehicle to facilitate this path towards happiness. It is not only path that I use. For I believe there are many strategies in building our personal happiness with our self and our relationships.

The path I describe is one of Self-Awareness leading to Self-Acceptance leading to Self-Actualization. The interesting aspect of this path is that it is actually circular. As we Self-actualize we are destine to become more aware of aspects of our inner self... which will lead us to need to Accept this new found awareness in order for further actualization to occur.

It is my beliefs that if we stop this cycle at any point we stop to grow in ourselves and in our relationships. We stop to bringing that inner self into the light of day and thus we establish a ceiling to our individual happiness. I suspect that many of us do this from time to time and can actually live very happy lives to the end of our days. Being in a relationship that is fundamentally a loving relationship promotes trust, security, validation and whole array of things that promote this cycle of growth.

I am loved not for what I do for them, "but for who I am". To push and bring my full awareness of my inner self to the open to those that love me can only grow this love. So I choose to be "Me" and enjoy the great happiness it gives me. Just as I love my girls for them are being who they are. However, I do not believe I could ever enjoy the love that is given to me, nor give love my girls to the depth I do unless we first love ourselves.

However, It is so much easier to love another than to accept the love from another. We know what is in our hearts and minds, but we only think we know what is in theirs. The difference is subtle but significant. To accept the love of another when we don't love our self is never an easy path. When we fail to love ourselves it begs to question the motivations of another that express love towards us. It is therefore my thoughts that “Awareness, .Acceptance & Actualization” is to grow our love of self and not just our relationship.

Some may say Love is a hindrance to the M/s dynamic and I would have to agree in some cases. In comparison, Many parents who love their children very much are blinded by that love to make the choices and decisions that are best for raising their children. They are blinded by "my children do no wrong" and I suspect everyone can think of examples of such. Because this, are they good parents? Should they be parents? Should parents not love their children?

I see no difference between the Master that allows his/her love to negatively affect his/her responsibilities towards the slave as the parent that allows love to negatively affect their responsibilities towards their children. It is my opinion we choose to love and as Masters we choose to exercise our authority. One need not conflict with the other.

To me it is not a question if Love should be in the relationship... It is should they be a Master?

If love causes a person not to fulfill their responsibilities... then let them never know what love is.




littlewonder -> RE: Love in M/s and D/s relationships (6/5/2010 11:14:30 AM)

People who have a problem with love in a bdsm/M/s/D/s relationship have problems with love...period.

People who have this issue speaks tons to me and not people I ever involve myself with.




subsfaith -> RE: Love in M/s and D/s relationships (6/5/2010 11:28:19 AM)

What is a "suburban Sue?"

I have seen cases where the Master, when in love, couldn't follow through for fear of hurting his slave.  However, more frequently, I have seen no problems that have been caused by love.

In my case it is only because Andrew cares so deeply about me that he can so effectively hurt me.  A case of his love inspiring his sadism.




SocratesNot -> RE: Love in M/s and D/s relationships (6/5/2010 11:31:28 AM)

Well , I agree with KnightofMists and all the other posters here.

I think that love itself can never cause the problems. Problems can only arise if someone loses his mind because of love. But, this never happens due to genuine love,
this happens due to worshiping and infatuation.
I don't thnik that parents who spoil their children do it because they love them more then other parents. The only reason why they do it is because they are insecure, they are afraid that they will lose love of their children if they don't spoil them, which means they are emotionally dependent on others, in this case, on their children.

So, loving oneself is the key to love. If you can't love yourself, you can hardly love anyone.
Loving oneself is also the key to emotional independence.




Jeffff -> RE: Love in M/s and D/s relationships (6/5/2010 11:31:40 AM)

You always hurt..... the one you love.




SocratesNot -> RE: Love in M/s and D/s relationships (6/5/2010 11:33:34 AM)

quote:

I have seen cases where the Master, when in love, couldn't follow through for fear of hurting his slave.


It's not because of love, he is just a pussy. [;)]




bestheadyet -> RE: Love in M/s and D/s relationships (6/5/2010 11:59:48 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists



Love for me has always been a Choice as much as it has been a Feeling.  Love to me is a powerful word if it used with the feelings that back it up. It moves one from the self-centered focus to that of a focus to another person and a relationship. I see love as a vehicle to facilitate this path towards happiness.  Being in a relationship that is fundamentally a loving relationship promotes trust, security, validation and whole array of things that promote this cycle of growth.It is my opinion we choose to love and as Masters we choose to exercise our authority. One need not conflict with the other.


i picked out the good stuff but trust me i read the whole thing.
yes i am a newbie....but this girl has ALWAYS  believed love is a choice. the parts i picked out to encapsulate here ...wow...i swear KoM is in my head. lol
i have many lessons yet to learn and have felt lately like ive been trying to jog in quicksand....but love has brought me to a new enlightenment....i believe it may actually be mimicking some self awareness.
i thank you Knight for speaking on this subject....and to OP for beginning this thread.




lally2 -> RE: Love in M/s and D/s relationships (6/5/2010 12:00:38 PM)

i think for people already sorted with regard to Ds and Ms this question is already academic, but i think it is a question that in one format or another rears up with the new folk coming through and is an area of confusion for many - therefore, if only for them its still worth airing.

littlewonder i used to have an issue with love - anyone tried to reach me that way got a serious rebuttle, i did not trust the word and considered it just a way to manipulate and weaken me - actually men i have met through Ds and Ms have straightened me out on that.

but in my earlier years, as much as i wanted to be loved i didnt know how to accept love and in those early years i tended to end up with guys who were not interested in the love element.

seriously though - we've had threads on here from guys asking how they can love their sub and yet still hurt them - it is a confusion to those coming through.

i kinda experienced this dilemma first hand with my exSir who at the very start told me he was never going to be my lover and that love was not what we were about.  i went with it because even then i was fairly ambivilant about love anyway.  the thing is he was new to being a Master, he turned out to be a very fine Master, one of the best actually and i still love him.  he did make mistakes, big ones, but him the person was amazing and wonderful.  his feeling was that if he allowed love to enter into it, it would compromise the dynamic, that he would be softer on me, less likely to maintain Mastery of me and that i would see it as a weakness too.  this is bollox of course, but people who havent yet 'got it' do labour under this sometimes.  in the end i believe he grew to love me too and the bond between us became very strong, is still strong actually and he realised a little late sadly that love does not get in the way of a strong dynamic it actually enhances it and makes it even more possible to be what we are to each other.




bestheadyet -> RE: Love in M/s and D/s relationships (6/5/2010 12:05:48 PM)

well said lally2

ty




Whiplashsmile4 -> RE: Love in M/s and D/s relationships (6/5/2010 12:12:28 PM)

I'm sort of wondering what a "Suburban Sue" is, and as opposed to what?




kuppykake -> RE: Love in M/s and D/s relationships (6/5/2010 12:21:12 PM)

Love is my motivation...if I did not love my Master, I wouldn't be as motivated to do things that please him.  Being his slave is something I chose to do, and while discipline and punishment motivate me to do as I should, my love for my Master is the initial motivation for me.  I expect him to discipline me, and would be utterly disappointed if he didn't.  Would a parent bother to discipline their child if they didn't love and care for that child?  No, they do it because they love them and and know what is best for them.  The same goes for a M/s relationship.  Discipline is not a negative thing, especially in this lifestyle.  Discipline and love go hand in hand.




Whiplashsmile4 -> RE: Love in M/s and D/s relationships (6/5/2010 12:26:02 PM)

I'm not certain what a "Suburban Sue" is but it sounds hott where can I get one?




jbcurious -> RE: Love in M/s and D/s relationships (6/5/2010 1:00:24 PM)

The same qualities that make me feel submissive towards a man are the same qualities that would make me love him... I'm not enough if an emotional masochist for that love to be one sided.




kiwisub12 -> RE: Love in M/s and D/s relationships (6/5/2010 1:33:33 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Whiplashsmile4

I'm not certain what a "Suburban Sue" is but it sounds hott where can I get one?



I think that is the suburban version of an "Inner City Succubus" [:D]




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