A choice.. or a decision? (Full Version)

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Missokyst -> A choice.. or a decision? (6/6/2010 9:18:17 PM)

Late last year I started to reclaim my life after a breakup. I began going to parties and even joined a dungeon as a member. Initially my plan was just to chat and be seen, but gradually I was able to play a bit. I am submissive and a masochist but I am also a sadist and that was the role I chose to use when I played. It was easy enough to top even though my heart was not in it, and I chose only scenes that would be brief.

A couple of months ago I started letting my sub maso side peek out, IF someone expressed interest. But in my area there are few male dominants who attend parties so I got very little play and what there was of it was always very tame.

Then last month at a party I went to I was topped by one of my group members who had traveled with us. For the first time in years I felt myself drifting into subspace. I know he saw it too, but not too long after the scene ended and so went space.

I don't know what I felt about that so at the last party I did get to bottom but I kept part of me in control. I doubt if I would have hit subspace if my partner had beat me while having sex with me which was not going to happen!

I was going to go to a party last night and then..

The guy who was going with me suggested instead of going to the party we might play at his place instead. Thrown for a loop, I diverted his attention and ignored it as if it was just a casual thought. Sometime during our continued conversation he brought it up again and I let him know I am just starting to get back into this and I was not sure if I was ready for a one on one. He pointed out I did not say no and to that I replied well I would have to see your space I need to know I am comfortable.. but once again pointed out that I am still very new to getting back into play. Then he casually suggested before the party we stop at his place and.. well, you see where this is going I am sure.

I did have a good time. I am still not sure how I feel about that. So, me being the ever questioning person that I am, I took a look back into my past.

And I'll be darned. All my prior relationships and encounters were not something I pursued. I have dodged, darted, evaded and slid out of the arms of most men who have attempted to enter my life. The only time I ended up staying with someone was when the man took the decision out of my hands. From my husband, who took my no to mean well maybe, to my most recent x, who learned everything could about me before staking his claim, all the men in my life made the move to make it happen as if it was natural that my choice be what they decided.

I am not denying my part in any relationship in my life. I allowed these men in and I have not been disappointed. But, if they had shown any hesitation about getting what they wanted I would have darted, dodged, evaded, and slid right out of their lives.

So.. was it a choice, or a decision? I was not aiming to play last night. I had not even considered this man as viable. But his done deal attitude was something that flipped a switch in me to turn off the escape route.

When a man approaches you, how much is your choice, and how much is his decision (aka pursual).





littlewonder -> RE: A choice.. or a decision? (6/6/2010 9:28:52 PM)

All of my relationships have been choice. I made the choice to get involved after their pursuits. I made the choice to stay. I made the choice to leave.

All of life for me is my choice..even my surrender to Master...choice.

I have no desire to lead my life in any other way.




LadyAngelika -> RE: A choice.. or a decision? (6/6/2010 9:30:28 PM)

quote:

When a man approaches you, how much is your choice, and how much is his decision (aka pursual).


Unless you are abducted, you always have a choice. Now whether or not we always make the best choices for ourselves is a whole other topic.

Now of course, he can be extremely persuasive and you can find yourself being swept away by his charms and advances. This doesn't only happen to submissive personalities and this doesn't only happen to women. When someone is appealing to us, we tend to let our guard down (if we are able to, not everyone is) and let ourselves be seduced.

It is true that in the D/s dynamic, there is more than likely going to be a scenario of the D pursuing and the s responding. And because for many, not all, submissives there is a desire to be conquered, a D that comes on strong can be a hot button.

But the reality is, if you had no attraction to this man, you probably would not have gone with him, right? I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt that generally you make good choices for yourself. Do you think that, deep down, you wanted to see where this lead and his insistence might have played into your desires and facilitated this?

- LA



Missokyst -> RE: A choice.. or a decision? (6/6/2010 9:45:15 PM)

yeah I get what you both are saying.

And I am not saying there was not a choice in staying. If a man was unpalatable to me he wouldn't even been in the ballpark. I am saying that unless a man makes that move and sticks with it regardless of my initial resistance I would likely laugh it off as if it was only his passing thought. I am an escape artist in ropes, and in my romantic life. I just require that his moves out manuever my own. A half hearted attempt never won my attention



LadyAngelika -> RE: A choice.. or a decision? (6/6/2010 9:54:09 PM)

quote:

A half hearted attempt never won my attention


As a dominant woman, I could quote this as the truth for me as well. Of course, I'm not looking for my potential partner's moves to outmanoeuvre mine, but I do need to know that his attempt to win my affections are genuine, authentic and focussed.

To a certain degree, when a man is seducing me, he breaks down my defences as well. I start to desire to be with him and I will lose a little control over my rational side. But being someone who needs to be in control, it is destabilizing to say the least, which is why I need to be absolutely convinced that I'm not being pursued by a player or someone looking for casual fun.

- LA



LadyNTrainer -> RE: A choice.. or a decision? (6/6/2010 9:58:19 PM)

It's one strategy, completely valid and workable for you.  Nothing wrong with it.

Personally I can't stand being pursued aggressively.  A guy tries that kind of move with me and he's out of my life.  It's an instant no-chemistry turnoff for me, almost like he's the wrong gender.  Guys go totally off my radar when they act like that; from then on maybe we can be friends if he backs off, but there's never going to be any romantic interest for me.  If they don't respect that and stop pursuing, then there's not going to be any relationship at all because then they've crossed into "total asshole" or even "stalker" territory. 

Now if a man can make himself available and authentically vulnerable, clearly interested in being pursued but just a bit shy, he can get my ears perking right up.  That's yummy to me, and it wakes up the primal predator in my nature.  So he's likely to get pounced if he's sent enough clear signals of consent.  It can be a delicate dance, but the guys who can do it and not step over the line are very desirable to me.

Ultimately a relationship or even a hookup has to be both people's choice, or it's called rape (or at the least, coercion) and it's not consensual.  I need to be the pursuer in order to get interested, but I also need him to make his own interest and consent reasonably clear in subtle ways.  If he doesn't, I won't keep pushing, because I don't want to be the asshole. 



domiguy -> RE: A choice.. or a decision? (6/6/2010 10:27:24 PM)

Missy you are not alone....Read these replies closely. Not one of these women are the pursuer.

They seem to be resigned to accept only those men that show an interest not to pursue those that they have an interest in.

They talk a nice game but the end result is not so different then what you have personally experienced.


Take care.





LuckyAlbatross -> RE: A choice.. or a decision? (6/6/2010 10:41:27 PM)

I've never actively sought a relationship, other than for a specific play experience. It's always been something that evolved organically over time and then a recognition of what it was.



LadyNTrainer -> RE: A choice.. or a decision? (6/6/2010 10:54:41 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

Missy you are not alone....Read these replies closely. Not one of these women are the pursuer.


Not quite sure where you're getting that, unless you mean my stipulation that I try not to act like the same kind of pushy asshole that I don't appreciate moving in on me.  If I make a move and I get a response that tells me he's genuinely not interested, I'm probably done.  There's lots of other pretty little fishies in the sea.  If I don't get that little spark of chemistry that tells me he likes where I'm going even if he's shy, I keep moving until I find it elsewhere.  Obsessively chasing someone who isn't all that into me is not just rude, it's a boring waste of time and energy when I could be scoring much more quickly just down the road.


quote:

They seem to be resigned to accept only those men that show an interest not to pursue those that they have an interest in.


I guess you could slant it that way.  Sexually I prefer submissive men who enjoy being pursued and taken as prey or prize, so dominance and sexual aggression is a pretty fast buzzkill for me.  I can be great friends with another dominant, but romantically and sexually he's totally off my radar as soon as he shows those colors.  It would be sort of like kissing my brother, and incest is not my kink.     So the kind of man I am keenly interested in is the kind that desires to be pursued, not so much to do the pursuing.  It's nice if he can do a good job of subtly encouraging me to chase him until he catches me, but being authentically shy and hesitant is fine too as long as he's still enjoying being hunted. 

Eventually you might just figure out that different people have different kinks.  Who'd a thunk it?  The fact that it floats my boat doesn't mean that it wouldn't sink someone else's, and that's just how diverse life is. 



Missokyst -> RE: A choice.. or a decision? (6/6/2010 11:48:20 PM)

A small clarification is needed here. It was sexually driven, but did not include sex. I actually don't have sex with someone unless I feel they are going to be a part of my life. The play did include touching which is way more than anything I have done with any man since my split with the x.

I wouldn't be in the company of any man that did not respect that.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyNTrainer

Ultimately a relationship or even a hookup has to be both people's choice, or it's called rape (or at the least, coercion) and it's not consensual. . 





reynardfox -> RE: A choice.. or a decision? (6/7/2010 12:01:47 AM)

You don't know if you are fish or fowl do you?
Give yourself a sabbatical until you are a little less bewildered you poor thing.



porcelaine -> RE: A choice.. or a decision? (6/7/2010 12:02:14 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Missokyst

All my prior relationships and encounters were not something I pursued. I have dodged, darted, evaded and slid out of the arms of most men who have attempted to enter my life. The only time I ended up staying with someone was when the man took the decision out of my hands.

When a man approaches you, how much is your choice, and how much is his decision (aka pursual).


Once upon a time I did the same. However, I no longer operate in that fashion. From a statistical standpoint it means I'm relying on men to express interest and possibly missing out on those that haven't done so. I can't speak for others but I know there were definite fears of rejection that I've overcome. It's actually very empowering to be the captain of my own ship so to speak.

In all cases I decide. I'm not keen on being chased by men. Particularly if the feeling isn't mutual. I makes me uncomfortable in all truth. It always did. The best situations allow for conversation and someone willing to express his interest without ridiculous posturing or other antics where he places the onus on me instead. That behavior is just as infuriating as mine once was and I lack the patience to deal with it for long.

In terms of approach it is definitely his choice. When I'm interested I approach him instead and go from there. That is my preferred method for interacting with men, especially dominant ones. We alleviate any suppositions regarding intentions early on.

~porcelaine



jbcurious -> RE: A choice.. or a decision? (6/7/2010 12:24:48 AM)

I never actually pursue... but I will do things to me more noticable to someone I'm attracted to whether it's the simple act of flirting or my grand scheme in high school, which involved finding out all of his classes, getting out of mine a few minutes early, dashing across campus so we could "accidently" bump into each other, but I still need them to make the actual moves to start something.

On the other hand...I can't be talked into something simply because a man has decided he wants me and doesn't take no for an answer, I have to feel a pretty strong attraction...

I've done this in the past and it's never worked out in the long run and I'm left thinking that I should have gone with my initial instincts.

So while I don't do the actual pursuing...it's very much a choice for me.



laurell3 -> RE: A choice.. or a decision? (6/7/2010 12:40:16 AM)

Missy,

I do get what you are saying. You are afraid and you respond to people that overcome that fear. I don't think there's anything wrong with that as long as you aren't settling for something that's not good for you and you're setting the pace that works for you. As long as you set your boundaries and stick with them, I can't see it being a problem.

If you were online looking only, maybe that would really limit your choices as the most active mailers tend to be people that may not be overly genuine. However, you're out there and actually meeting people in person. Whether you are actively striking up the conversation or just looking around and getting to know people, you are going to put off cues of interest whether you realize it or not.

I'm happy that you are getting out there and overcoming those fears and you have realized that you are ready for it. Kudos to you for taking that step, I know it's not an easy one. Do what is comfortable for you.




lally2 -> RE: A choice.. or a decision? (6/7/2010 1:47:54 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Missokyst
.And I'll be darned. All my prior relationships and encounters were not something I pursued. I have dodged, darted, evaded and slid out of the arms of most men who have attempted to enter my life. .
I am not denying my part in any relationship in my life. I allowed these men in and I have not been disappointed. But, if they had shown any hesitation about getting what they wanted I would have darted, dodged, evaded, and slid right out of their lives.

So.. was it a choice, or a decision? I was not aiming to play last night. I had not even considered this man as viable. But his done deal attitude was something that flipped a switch in me to turn off the escape route.

When a man approaches you, how much is your choice, and how much is his decision (aka pursual).





[:D] - now i come to think of it........!! - ive been pretty much the same, even once the relationship has begun ive been a bit cagey - when i finallly started dating Dominants as opposed to dominant vanillas i started out completely opposite to that - was all too eager and easy to be honest.  then self-preservation stepped in and ive gone back to 'hmmm, maybe i will maybe i wont' and that stays with me - it takes a determined cove to really pin me down.  which is actually probably why ive managed to dodge and weave my way out of most of my relationships since.

in fact only this new year i recognised this and made a promise to myself that i wouldnt be so quick to do a runner [&:]

sorry, edited to add:  so in response to youre question i think for a long time it wasnt so much my choice, rather more that i had the choice made for me and i was ok with that - i think that still applies - in other words, unless the decision is made for me ill just potter along in my own little way.

once the decision has been made, like with the relationship im in now, where we'd spent months and months just communicating occasionally because i was in and out of relationships like i was caught in a revolving door and once that i wasnt he stepped up and said 'right, lets do something with this already!' - up until then i was quite happy being foot loose and yapping to him whenever he blew through - and would have carried on that way indefinitely.



kiwisub12 -> RE: A choice.. or a decision? (6/7/2010 3:31:21 AM)

Hmmm .......   so  the OP's modus operandi is to run until the strongest most persistant dragon in the sky can catch her. Well, if that works for her, good. Hopefully she enjoys the men that she ends up with, BUT......  if she doesn't then she needs to change the way she does things.  And that isn't easy.

Sounds to me OP- that the way you have decided to make your choice of men is (sort of) working for you.   I don't think this is a conscious decision by any manner of means- but you are missing out on a world of men who aren't as persistant/pushy/assertive/thick skinned/confident/desperate/insertadjectiveofchoicehere . Sometimes, when you step out of your comfort zone, you find the most amazing people, people you would never have found otherwise, as i did with my Sir.
He was not someone that i would have ever chosen out of a line-up, but we have had the most amazing life together. And even though it is coming to a close, i would not change a minute of it.

So, if you want to change the way you choose your men, think about why you need to be hunted down and conquered , why it is the strongest in the sky that is the only one that can have you.







LadyCimarron -> RE: A choice.. or a decision? (6/7/2010 4:13:19 AM)

Its both. I love being pursued and I have 100% choice over who I allow to catch me.[;)] I think when women allow men to pursue we are separating the ones who really want us from the players. And notice I did say "allow" them to pursue. Because we can put on the brakes anytime we get ready to.

So if I am absolutely NOT interested in a guy I give him a firm NO. But if I AM interested I will say something like "I don't know if your my type" which is code for "I kinda like you but you need to convince me you are not an axe murderer."  If a guy gives up after an "I don't know" I don't think he really wanted me anyway.



MissAsylum -> RE: A choice.. or a decision? (6/7/2010 4:35:35 AM)

i agree with the lovey Lady above. Personally, whenever i tried to pursue- it felt a bit off for me, probably due in part to my slight ideal of the 1950s household where the man is the man(or in my case- is lead to believe he is the man-aka the one in charge). But when i pursue(vanilla or bdsm), the man ends up thinking that only he is the prize that had been won. but like what had been stated before, if i'm going to be pursued, i don't want some half assed attempt, and at the same time i am NOT a fan of somebody being too pushy. it doesn't make me feel safe to be almost forced into a relationship or encounter. but for the OP to go along with a Dominant that was a bit strong in his aproach with what seems to be little resistance from the OP, there may be a willingness to submit to him because you are already attracted.



DesFIP -> RE: A choice.. or a decision? (6/7/2010 4:51:07 AM)

Both. Yes I need to be actively pursued. But I use my brain first to see if I approve of him from a moral./ethical viewpoint. I've done otherwise in the past and disliked myself for giving into chemistry with a man I can't respect. But I don't play if I'm not going to have sex, so I'm even more stringent in my selection process.



xxblushesxx -> RE: A choice.. or a decision? (6/7/2010 5:58:03 AM)

I told HM I thought we should just be friends when we met. I wasn't interested in him romantically. He said that was fine, but generally when he wants something, he gets it...yeah, several months later he did! Most of my long-term relationships were precipitated by the men pursuing me, me turning them down, and them showing me why they were the right choice.



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