RE: The Torah, Bible, Koran ? (Full Version)

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Aneirin -> RE: The Torah, Bible, Koran ? (6/10/2010 5:07:59 AM)

Yes, I am aware of that, but from where did Amen come from, what is the origin of the affirmation. I ask for the reason that amen the word for affirmation bears a striking similarity to words used by the  ancient Egyptians when addressing some of their god forms; Amen Ra and Amen (Amun, Amon etc). Now to understand at the time of Joseph according to the bible, him with the hippy coat, the Hebrews were captured and enslaved by the Egyptians for Moses to come along and bring them back.

Joseph circa 1562-1452 bce

Moses circa 1440-1441 bce

Maybe....

But in all that time 121 years if the longest time period is used, that is 121 years the Hebrews were in Egypt, did they maintain their identity, or did they assimilate, how did Moses know who the Hebrews were when it is possible and probable that many of the slaves intermingled and  fathered children whilst in captivity, or was it just taken that a slave was  Hebrew, anyone that wants to be free come with me sort of thing. It is reported that Moses led the people to Sinai where he revealed the ten commandments, ( Sinai named after an Arab pagan god sin which was popular throughout the region at the time, Moon god worship). The ten commandments being necessary because of his people's idolatory ways, which indicates they worshipped idols, perhaps Egyptian idols or even Arabian or any other cult from the time and region.

Therefore I am wondering when the word Amen comes from, I have indicated Egypt as part of idol worship, but on it's similarity with the modern use of the word as an affirmation, could it be Amen is in fact a word with origins in pagan religiousity and with that, our use of the word, do we really know what we are saying when we use it ?






DesFIP -> RE: The Torah, Bible, Koran ? (6/10/2010 5:11:49 AM)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amen

From the Hebrew, translates to "so be it". Any similarities to other words in other languages are coincidental only.



LadyCimarron -> RE: The Torah, Bible, Koran ? (6/10/2010 5:13:51 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

Therefore I am wondering when the word Amen comes from, I have indicated Egypt as part of idol worship, but on it's similarity with the modern use of the word as an affirmation, could it be Amen is in fact a word with origins in pagan religiousity and with that, our use of the word, do we really know what we are saying when we use it ?



It could be, it could not be. Practically every word in the English language has its origin in an old language. The fact that Amen may have roots in a pagan religion does not mean we don't know what it means TODAY. Today it is an affirmation of truth.



RCdc -> RE: The Torah, Bible, Koran ? (6/10/2010 5:21:11 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

Who was Amen then, you know the thing both Muslim and Christian, (don't know about Jewish) say at the end of prayers and stuff ?


Amen was not a who but it is an affirmation/confirmation.

the.dark.



Aneirin -> RE: The Torah, Bible, Koran ? (6/10/2010 5:25:33 AM)

If it is taken that words and with that certain words hold power, then is it not wise to know to where power is being directed when a word perhaps an ancient word is used.

But if the word Amen is or ancient pagan origin, could it be that the modern use of the word is in fact yet more redefinition by a religious collective authority to ensnare converts from other mechanisms of faith by indicating a similarity in the use of words.

I do understand though Hebrew like many other languages did not create new words to describe something, but used already existing words and in time meanings changed. A bit like Icelanic, their words when translated for even the most modern of things seem to make little sense to an outsider, but it is their interest to maintain their language and not let foreign words dilute it. But of Icelandic, it is said to be near to medieval Norwegian.



RCdc -> RE: The Torah, Bible, Koran ? (6/10/2010 5:29:55 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

If it is taken that words and with that certain words hold power, then is it not wise to know to where power is being directed when a word perhaps an ancient word is used.

But if the word Amen is or ancient pagan origin, could it be that the modern use of the word is in fact yet more redefinition by a religious collective authority to ensnare converts from other mechanisms of faith by indicating a similarity in the use of words.

I do understand though Hebrew like many other languages did not create new words to describe something, but used already existing words and in time meanings changed. A bit like Icelanic, their words when translated for even the most modern of things seem to make little sense to an outsider, but it is their interest to maintain their language and not let foreign words dilute it. But of Icelandic, it is said to be near to medieval Norwegian.



But it doesn't come from that word A.  It comes from a completely different word.  It's only the english translation that makes it come out as 'Amen'.

the.dark.



Moonhead -> RE: The Torah, Bible, Koran ? (6/10/2010 5:37:01 AM)

So which language are you typing in where it has a different meaning, then?



LadyCimarron -> RE: The Torah, Bible, Koran ? (6/10/2010 5:42:08 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

If it is taken that words and with that certain words hold power, then is it not wise to know to where power is being directed when a word perhaps an ancient word is used.



Even IF that word is taken from an ancient word (and I am not saying it is) it really doesn't matter because religion is primarily based upon faith. Especially the Christian religion.

"by faith- all things are possible"

This means if someone wants to take the word Amen (or the word "shoe" for that matter) and believe that it means a god and then worship it. Then it DOES become their god. But if Christians, Muslims and any other religion choose to believe that it is an affirmation, then to them it IS an affirmation. Most people of faith have enough faith that they believe their deity is more concerned with their heart than with word origins.



RCdc -> RE: The Torah, Bible, Koran ? (6/10/2010 5:44:17 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

So which language are you typing in where it has a different meaning, then?


This is where I have to go huh?

the.dark.



Demspotis -> RE: The Torah, Bible, Koran ? (6/10/2010 5:46:23 AM)

The Egyptian "Amen" or "Amun" is the name of a God, seen by some as the original or supreme God (Egyptian beliefs and philosophies were not uniform). It means "Hidden [One]". Its spelling can also be properly given as "Jmn" or "Imen", based on the original hieroglyphic spelling. So, it has no real connection with the Hebrew "amen" nor Arabic "amin", meaning "so be it". For both Egyptian language and religion, a very good source is James P. Allen's "Middle Egyptian: An Introduction to the Language and Culture of Hieroglyphs". Each chapter includes both an in-depth lesson on some aspect of the classical Egyptian language, and an essay on some part of the religion and culture. In both areas, it is a modern, up-to-date, work (the works most commonly seen are those by E.A. Wallis Budge, which are in some respects quite out-of-date by now.)

~Demspotis

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

Therefore I am wondering when the word Amen comes from, I have indicated Egypt as part of idol worship, but on it's similarity with the modern use of the word as an affirmation, could it be Amen is in fact a word with origins in pagan religiousity and with that, our use of the word, do we really know what we are saying when we use it ?






Moonhead -> RE: The Torah, Bible, Koran ? (6/10/2010 5:51:56 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: RCdc

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

So which language are you typing in where it has a different meaning, then?


This is where I have to go huh?

the.dark.

Nope. Just trying to make a point about usage. Sorry that wasn't clear.



Rule -> RE: The Torah, Bible, Koran ? (6/10/2010 12:52:58 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven
Hard for me to follow because all his terms are different than the ones that I and everyone else uses.

It is commendable that you have tried to follow me. Well done.



madamsboy418 -> RE: The Torah, Bible, Koran ? (6/10/2010 6:17:04 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

BTW, one of the reasons that Hebrew is so hard to translate is that for reasons unknown to me, the vowels are not shown!



I read it with the vowels almost every week.

Translations are always based on someones interpretation of the original language. Look at older translation of the Chumash (five books of moses) and they translate things a bit differently than newer translations.



DarwinsLilHelper -> RE: The Torah, Bible, Koran ? (6/10/2010 7:54:45 PM)

I dunno. I've read all of the above and Das Kapital and Mien Kampf to.

Yet still all I want to do tie women up and spank them and then have really twisted sex afterwards.



Well Okay...I did read the Hadith to. Which convinced me there's going to come a day when the West and Islam are going to have the most brutal war in human history. It's pretty much going to be unavoidable.



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