Respect

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osf -> Respect (6/8/2010 7:10:41 AM)
By their very nature are slaves/property entitled to respect?

NuevaVida -> RE: Respect (6/8/2010 7:27:46 AM)
By whom? I don't think respect is an entitlement for anybody in any walk of life. Now, if you're asking whether we believe slaves are some lowly form of non-human who should be cowering and happy just to get a glance - - no. My slavery to my owner means he has authority over my life. We respect each other. If we didn't, we wouldn't be together. But I certainly do not believe a label constitutes respect or lack thereof. That would be silly. (edited to fix a typo)

LadyNTrainer -> RE: Respect (6/8/2010 7:34:42 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: osf By their very nature are slaves/property entitled to respect? The pertinent questions here that have not been asked is "from whom" and "what kind of respect"? Legally, economically and in general society, the status of "slave" does not exist. In the BDSM community, it exists only in the context of a consensual relationship between two (or more) people. Ergo the status only exists within the relationship, and for others who choose to participate to some extent in that relationship. As a BDSM community member, I may recognize and respect that my friend is in a 24/7 relationship with his owner. However I may or may not consent to actually participate in their relationship by interacting with him in a manner that is other than fairly normal and friendly. The key here is that you can't assume my consent to anything. I am not a prop for your humiliation scene and I am going to deeply resent being used as one. His owner may ask nicely for me to humor her by participating in treating him as a slave, and in that case I may. I will respect that as he is her consenting property, I must politely ask her permission rather than his before inviting him anywhere or including him in some activities. If I want his service, say to bring me a drink, I can ask her as a courtesy to lend him for a moment. But do I otherwise treat him differently? No, not really. Socializing with other D/s and M/s couples and triads is pretty normal to me, and other than the minor social allowances I've mentioned, it's just standard daily fare among my friends. Within the relationship of owner to slave, there is all kinds of respect. You can certainly choose not to give any respect to a slave, but if you take that concept too far, you risk running your property into the ground. If I own a nice truck, I'm going to respect its power and capabilities, I'm going to keep it in nice working order, and I'm not going to bash it into a tree. I own it; it is my property. But I'm very unlikely to actively disrespect it, because I cherish and value its good appearance and abilities, and I want to keep it serving me well. As a Social Darwinist, my take is that no one is "entitled" to respect. You earn it by word and deed. I know many who identify as slaves whose legacy of service to the community is worthy of a hell of a lot more respect than the vast majority of blowhard wannabe dominants. So there are slaves in my community whom I respect for their honorable contributions far above the average community member regardless of their orientation.

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Respect (6/8/2010 7:39:38 AM)
Every human should be entitled to not be violated. Anything else is your choice in your relationships.

SimplyMichael -> RE: Respect (6/8/2010 7:39:51 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: osf By their very nature are slaves/property entitled to respect? Yours may not be mine sure are.

WestBaySlave -> RE: Respect (6/8/2010 7:47:53 AM)
I don't believe anyone is entitled to respect beyond the courtesy and civility I try to extend to those around me. That being said, I'd only involve myself in a M/s relationship where high levels of mutual respect are involved.

AQuietSimpleMan -> RE: Respect (6/8/2010 7:53:18 AM)
Yes they are. But Midgets are not. And if you slave is a Midget. Man did they get fucked in the straw draw. QSM

DesFIP -> RE: Respect (6/8/2010 8:10:19 AM)
The sheer fact that the op has to ask this shows all too clearly why he doesn't have one.

sublizzie -> RE: Respect (6/8/2010 8:34:15 AM)
I think that by their nature of being human, all persons deserve respect. Some deserve more of my respect than others, but all deserve basic respect by just by being human made in the image of God. 'Course this is more about my personal theological stance than anything else.

GraciousLady -> RE: Respect (6/8/2010 9:51:40 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: osf By their very nature are slaves/property entitled to respect? Are you watching to much porn or something? This is a silly question.

osf -> RE: Respect (6/8/2010 9:58:19 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: GraciousLady quote: ORIGINAL: osf By their very nature are slaves/property entitled to respect? Are you watching to much porn or something? This is a silly question. It is basic assumptions and the silly questions that often need the most thought, if that were not true then slavery would still be legal and women wouldn't have equal rights, on second thought forget the question

lally2 -> RE: Respect (6/8/2010 12:21:43 PM)
im with sublizzie in that everyone deserves a degree of respect until theyre behaviour proves otherwise - why would a slave or sub be any different simply because they are the subordinate in a power exchange relationship that would not be able to exist without them.

ranja -> RE: Respect (6/8/2010 12:24:22 PM)
do they have to earn it? i have heard here that Dominants and Masters have to earn respect.... so tit for tat?

LaTigresse -> RE: Respect (6/8/2010 12:51:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: osf By their very nature are slaves/property entitled to respect? In my world, NO ONE is 'entitled' to respect. People earn my respect by being honourable human beings. It has nothing at all to do with dominance or submission.

osf -> RE: Respect (6/8/2010 12:54:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lally2 im with sublizzie in that everyone deserves a degree of respect until theyre behaviour proves otherwise - why would a slave or sub be any different simply because they are the subordinate in a power exchange relationship that would not be able to exist without them. respect is an attitude and courtesy is a behaviour No one has a right to your respect but they may expect common courtesy. I'll throw in my $.02 in answer to my own question. If nature imbued some submissives with a need/desire to serve, be used and for humiliation and degradation, would not respecting them and showing them common courtsey be counter to the needs of their nature? When I talk to women with these fantasies and tell them that no they are not the equal of those that use them, they get all excited, so maybe by their natures they are not equal and deserving of the courtseys others expect. Miliage may varry

leadership527 -> RE: Respect (6/8/2010 2:12:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: osf By their very nature are slaves/property entitled to respect? Like others, in my world respect is something you earn, not something you are entitled to. To answer your underlying question though, I see nothing inherent in the role of slave which either adds to or detracts from my ability to respect the person. In other words, I don't respect roles, I respect people (or not as the case may be).

porcelaine -> RE: Respect (6/8/2010 2:47:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: osf By their very nature are slaves/property entitled to respect? I've never believed in entitlements in slavery. I'm going to assume if the dominant has a slave or property that he views with little respect she's agreed to that setup and it works nicely for them. There are some that thrive in situations like these and the desire for debasement runs deep. Whether he truthfully harbors those feelings or merely projects them as part of their dynamic is a mystery. For my own purposes I have never served a man I didn't respect or being owned by one that didn't feel the same. But they didn't respect me because of the role, but more importantly for who I am/was to them. ~porcelaine

FlamingRedhead -> RE: Respect (6/8/2010 3:15:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: osf If nature imbued some submissives with a need/desire to serve, be used and for humiliation and degradation, would not respecting them and showing them common courtsey be counter to the needs of their nature? I think everyone is entitled to a modicum of respect until proven otherwise. How little or how much depends on how well you know them. I have a deep-seated need to serve and be used and humiliated. However, I also need to be respected. It may seem like an impossible contradiction, but it's really not. I'd never willingly serve someone who genuinely had no respect for me and never showed me a kind word or deed.

littlewonder -> RE: Respect (6/8/2010 3:34:51 PM)
I have no idea what others are entitled to but me personally...I'm not entitled to it but I sure as hell would not be involved with someone who does not respect me.

MarcEsadrian -> RE: Respect (6/8/2010 4:09:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: osf By their very nature are slaves/property entitled to respect? Respect: A feeling of deep admiration for someone or something elicited by their abilities, qualities, or achievements. Source: Oxford American Dictionary With that in mind, are we speaking about people who claim to be "slaves" in general, or one's own personal slave who he / she has chosen and has stood the test of time? If the latter, I can say this: there is no hard and fast "rule" in my mind saying one can't have respect for a slave's abilities or talents. Somehow, I feel "abilities or talents" isn't the crux of this question, though. When people say "respect", I sense they often really mean appreciation and honor, which are more connotative (and important) ideas to the psyche and ego. In the more emotive sense, it could be appreciation for her constancy, mettle and companionship proven over time, and if you are indeed warm-blooded, this will happen. Is a slave entitled to respect? In my opinion and experience, entering into this arrangement with that preconception is a recipe for confusion, particularly if one hasn't considered what degree or form of "respect" is in question. Part of the entire point in keeping a slave is not having to observe the folkways of society that dictate mutual respect and honor, or the romantic and reciprocal fluff, kudos, loyalty, explanation or appreciation traditionally expected between lovers. Even so, Masters or Mistresses who succeed cannot be impossibly rigid or detached, neglectful, untrusting or so self-centered that they are blind to the fact that what serves them is still a human being. I would say simply that a slave inevitably needs good leadership.

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