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RE: Can a slave have plans and aspirations? - 6/9/2010 4:45:48 PM

kyraofMists

Posts: 3292
Joined: 7/29/2005
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Well, just today Alandra and I came up with a plan that will allow the three of us to go to a play party this weekend (planning is essential since it is over 5 hours away). Now all we need is his blessing to execute this plan.

Dreaming, planning and aspiring to different things does not cause any issues in our relationship. What it comes down to is the execution of those dreams and plans. Executing them will not happen without his permission. If I wanted to make my own decisions and have the authority to execute my own plans at my will, then I would not have started this relationship.

Knight's Kyra

_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

(in reply to kyraofMists)

Post #: 121

RE: Can a slave have plans and aspirations? - 6/9/2010 4:51:08 PM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
Status: offline

quote:

I do not think you would expect it, nor do I expect you to change your opinion. Isn't strange that this is called an exchange of arguments? The logical result should be you taking my position and me taking yours, and both continuing to argue. But I digress.

Agreement is never required nor expected. I live my opinion. I hope I never have a reason to change it; however I'll be the first to tell you that I can make a better practical case for your position than I can for mine. I've said it on this forum many times before. We are 'successful' now - as of this moment. Only the death of one of us will determine if that 'success' was for forever.

I don't post our reality for acceptance, agreement, or trying to point to a 'one true way' for happiness. The only 'dogma' represented is 'Merc & beth' dogma. I see challenge not as an attack but as a tool for further confirmation. I thank you for the opportunity!

quote:

As for planing for failure = achieving a failure. During WWI, at the beginning French pilots were denied parachutes because their generals thought it would entice them to jump instead of fighting to the bitter end... I suppose it is an attitude that has its worth "burning the bridge (or the boats) behind you" is a time honored strategy after all. It is not mine.
As for planing for failure = achieving a failure. During WWI, at the beginning French pilots were denied parachutes because their generals thought it would entice them to jump instead of fighting to the bitter end... I suppose it is an attitude that has its worth "burning the bridge (or the boats) behind you" is a time honored strategy after all. It is not mine.

You misinterpret my position. I don't discount the practical need to have a "parachute"; and I don't advocate for burning bridges. I measure a relationships confidence on having a common "bridge" and sharing a parachute; while at the same time coming into it with enough self confidence and ability to be able to build a bridge or fashion your own if all the good planning and commonality of commitment somehow fails.

quote:

My example and the question "is it worth?" were purely hypothetical and had nothing with you and Beth.

I didn't take it personal, my response was honest and from the heart. It was the only way to try and convey a very important sentiment.

quote:

The point I tried to make that primo such a sacrifice must be weighted against the relationship, and secundo that the dominant, as a leader of the couple must have weighted it in a rational manner with the common good in mind.

I've documented my what I "sacrificed" for beth in our journal. I go so far as to say I "hate" her for making me less independent. I hate her because until she came into my life I never experienced loneliness as I do now every minute she is not with me. That was a sacrifice for me, but one, I must admit, worth it. My biggest fear now is that she is taken from my life. I never had that type of fear before. Yes - for these and other reasons I hate beth with a passion! Hell - I think I've sacrificed much more than beth!

But I could not have weighed that rationally before because I never believed it possible. As I said - yours is the better position to have in debating the issue.

quote:

However, and that will be my last philosophical question for tonight, when we grab a beer, are we not performing a self-centered action?

On one level yes! But trust me, beth will be there too!

You forgot one - Cent' Anni!

Looking forward to the opportunity!

(in reply to Falkenstein)

Post #: 122

RE: Can a slave have plans and aspirations? - 6/9/2010 6:14:27 PM

SocratesNot

Posts: 812
Joined: 5/17/2010
Status: offline

quote:

He never agrees with me because I'm "only a switch" and not worthy!

I never said that. I think everyone is equally worthy in WIITWD, and I also think that switches have even better understanding of the dynamic, because they experienced it from both sides. However, I told that as a switch LadyAlbatros, probably can't understand the mindset of some girls who were only slaves and who can function only in slavery. There are some who are extremely submissive and have no urge to switch whatsoever, some of them couldn't even be service tops. Some other must feel owned in order to be fulfilled. Saying that switches are two steps away from slaves was said jokingly, my only opinion is that there is a certain difference in the mindset between switches and slaves. I identify as switch, and maybe that's the reason I have trouble understanding some slaves, because my mindset is quite different than theirs.

_____________________________

Amicus Plato, sed magis amica veritas. - Aristotle
Plato is my friend, but truth is a better friend. - Aristotle

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 123

RE: Can a slave have plans and aspirations? - 6/9/2010 7:19:13 PM

laurell3

Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline

The reason you have trouble identifying is because it doesn't work for you. To assume all switches are like you is foolish. I'm don't know you, but I can tell you already, you and I have very little in common including our viewpoints on slavery and submission. The fact that someone has the possiblity to switch doesn't come remotely close to saying they cannot be a slave or cannot be extremely submissive. That's just ridiculous. Beleive me, I am plenty submissive for the right person. The only thing that is ever true for all of us is you have to know the person before you make assumptions that the label means anything. You're never going to do that. You're always going to blame your gross generalizations on the excuse of the day. Today it's a joke, last week it was language. Last week all switches were just kinky, this week we're not submissive enough. The simple fact is you're still trying to fit everyone in boxes. We don't fit, we never will.

< Message edited by laurell3 -- 6/9/2010 7:20:07 PM >

_____________________________

I cannot be defined by moments in my life, but must be considered for by the entirety of my existence.

When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

(in reply to SocratesNot)

Post #: 124

RE: Can a slave have plans and aspirations? - 6/9/2010 7:21:34 PM

Hawkwindblues

Posts: 183
Joined: 6/26/2009
From: Berlin, Germany
Status: offline

quote:

I measure a relationships confidence on having a common "bridge" and sharing a parachute; while at the same time coming into it with enough self confidence and ability to be able to build a bridge or fashion your own if all the good planning and commonality of commitment somehow fails.

The above quote is exactly the position we hold, our love came late in life and in it severeness quite unexpected, but without hesitating we went with it some ten years ago.

The sacrifice Merc is writing about later is the sacrifice we both made and which till that day seems to shock me a bit more than Michael. As long as we are We there will not be any longer Independence and that although we do not have a classical power dynamic. Our power dynamic goes both ways, we gave us to each other with Skin and Hair (german saying), holding nothing back as far as that is possible.

I even made a Thread about the problems i had with that kind of love prompted through Michaels cancer:

http://www.collarchat.com/m_730298/mpage_1/tm.htm

_____________________________

After 10 years with the handle ZenDragoness it is time for a change.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 125

RE: Can a slave have plans and aspirations? - 6/9/2010 7:27:28 PM

Andalusite

Posts: 2492
Joined: 1/25/2009
Status: offline

I am a switch, but was a slave in my last relationship. If something is important to you, and the relationship won't work without it, mention it right up front in your profile or shortly after the initial contact. Get to know the person first, don't turn over your power to them and hope that they'll be what you want. Don't criticise other people for their relationship choices.

Back to the subject, I had certain goals while I was dating my former Master, and he was generally supportive of them. If he had wanted me to change one hobby to another that he shared, or cut back on time/money/commitment to one, and adjust goals accordingly, that would have been within his authority. Sometimes people set goals that are detrimental to their relationships, whether they are vanilla or kinky. Both people need to re-evaluate things periodically, and make priorities. In a D/s or M/s relationship, the one in charge often does have the right to order changes and set goals, but will hopefully work with their partner to make sure that his or her needs are met.

(in reply to Hawkwindblues)

Post #: 126

RE: Can a slave have plans and aspirations? - 6/9/2010 7:28:10 PM

leadership527

Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists
I dream about this... I aspire to be able to and I am making plans... but it is all in the hands of that committe of one right now *eg*

Give it up. There's no way Knight is gonna let you knit now. If he does, it'll sure call into question his stern, harsh, domly credentials. People will begin to think he's a cream puff like me... the ever-so-dreaded "service dominant". I'm sure the mere thought of such a reputation would keep him up awake at night.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to kyraofMists)

Post #: 127

RE: Can a slave have plans and aspirations? - 6/9/2010 7:34:44 PM

SocratesNot

Posts: 812
Joined: 5/17/2010
Status: offline

quote:

The reason you have trouble identifying is because it doesn't work for you. To assume all switches are like you is foolish. I'm don't know you, but I can tell you already, you and I have very little in common including our viewpoints on slavery and submission. The fact that someone has the possiblity to switch doesn't come remotely close to saying they cannot be a slave or cannot be extremely submissive. That's just ridiculous. Beleive me, I am plenty submissive for the right person. The only thing that is ever true for all of us is you have to know the person before you make assumptions that the label means anything. You're never going to do that. You're always going to blame your gross generalizations on the excuse of the day. Today it's a joke, last week it was language. Last week all switches were just kinky, this week we're not submissive enough. The simple fact is you're still trying to fit everyone in boxes. We don't fit, we never will.

Your very attitude on these boards tells me that your mindset is somewhat different from let's say barelynangel, kyra or porcelaine, let alone daddysprop, Mecenbeth or some others here. It is not offense to say switches are different than slaves. In WIITWD the level of submissiveness has nothing to do with your personal worth. I don't feel I am less worthy if my mindset is not as submissive as daddyprop's or Carol's.

This is common misconception in WIITWD. People tend to equate the level of submission is submissives with ther personal worth. Bullshit.
The same is true for Dominants. His level of dominance has nothing to do whatsoever with his personal worth.

_____________________________

Amicus Plato, sed magis amica veritas. - Aristotle
Plato is my friend, but truth is a better friend. - Aristotle

(in reply to Hawkwindblues)

Post #: 128

RE: Can a slave have plans and aspirations? - 6/9/2010 7:42:04 PM

laurell3

Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline

Yeah well I've never said that SN. You have many times in many different ways, such as switches aren't submissive or can't think like slaves or are just kinky. Get off your soapbox, you're preaching to the choir and the deflection tactic won't work. You stuck your foot in your mouth AGAIN and now are looking for another excuse. This one fails, try again. To assume that you can tell someone's level or desire for submission by their 'attitude' in their postings is also another ridiculous missperception (usually voiced by men that don't like to be disagreed with and use it as a standy argument), but you're not alone in that one, believe me.

< Message edited by laurell3 -- 6/9/2010 7:53:08 PM >

_____________________________

I cannot be defined by moments in my life, but must be considered for by the entirety of my existence.

When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

(in reply to SocratesNot)

Post #: 129

RE: Can a slave have plans and aspirations? - 6/9/2010 7:43:24 PM

sexyred1

Posts: 8998
Joined: 8/9/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SocratesNot

quote:

The reason you have trouble identifying is because it doesn't work for you. To assume all switches are like you is foolish. I'm don't know you, but I can tell you already, you and I have very little in common including our viewpoints on slavery and submission. The fact that someone has the possiblity to switch doesn't come remotely close to saying they cannot be a slave or cannot be extremely submissive. That's just ridiculous. Beleive me, I am plenty submissive for the right person. The only thing that is ever true for all of us is you have to know the person before you make assumptions that the label means anything. You're never going to do that. You're always going to blame your gross generalizations on the excuse of the day. Today it's a joke, last week it was language. Last week all switches were just kinky, this week we're not submissive enough. The simple fact is you're still trying to fit everyone in boxes. We don't fit, we never will.

Your very attitude on these boards tells me that your mindset is somewhat different from let's say barelynangel, kyra or porcelaine, let alone daddysprop, Mecenbeth or some others here. It is not offense to say switches are different than slaves. In WIITWD the level of submissiveness has nothing to do with your personal worth. I don't feel I am less worthy if my mindset is not as submissive as daddyprop's or Carol's.

This is common misconception in WIITWD. People tend to equate the level of submission is submissives with ther personal worth. Bullshit.
The same is true for Dominants. His level of dominance has nothing to do whatsoever with his personal worth.

Your comments above have absolutely nothing to do with what Laurell just said. I don't see how you could have interpreted her comments about how it is individual for each of us and none of this can be labeled into a discussion of personal worth.

(in reply to SocratesNot)

Post #: 130

RE: Can a slave have plans and aspirations? - 6/9/2010 7:46:28 PM

kyraofMists

Posts: 3292
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists
I dream about this... I aspire to be able to and I am making plans... but it is all in the hands of that committe of one right now *eg*
Give it up. There's no way Knight is gonna let you knit now. If he does, it'll sure call into question his stern, harsh, domly credentials. People will begin to think he's a cream puff like me... the ever-so-dreaded "service dominant". I'm sure the mere thought of such a reputation would keep him up awake at night.

LOL Now I know why he has been so restless at night and having bad dreams!! A cream puff and service top.... oh the horror!!

_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

(in reply to leadership527)

Post #: 131

RE: Can a slave have plans and aspirations? - 6/9/2010 7:49:38 PM

Jeffff

Posts: 12600
Joined: 7/7/2007
Status: offline

Red, he is either very disturbed, or a complete knuckle head.

Many people have tried to engage him. It doesn't work.

_____________________________

"If you don't live it, it won't come out your horn." Charlie Parker

(in reply to sexyred1)

Post #: 132

RE: Can a slave have plans and aspirations? - 6/9/2010 7:53:16 PM

SocratesNot

Posts: 812
Joined: 5/17/2010
Status: offline

Why do you take offense in saying that switches are just kinky. This is just my opinion and it doesn't apply to all switches. Maybe not even to half of them.
I said it because in one moment I felt that. I didn't reexamine my thoughts carefully so that I tell them when I'm sure 100% in their truth. In one moment I just felt like it, that hey, maybe switches are just kinky. And even if they are, this doesn't mean they are less worthy. I even started the thread "Glory to "fake" BDSM-ers" in which I purposefully tried to defend those who are just kinky or bedroom submissives etc. I think of myself as "fake" by the standards of most people here. But hey, my "fakeness" doesn't make me less worthy. BTW, "fakeness" is completely absurd concept, which I clearly argued.

In many moments I just let some random thought out of my system, and this doesn't always mean that this is my hardcore, cautiously weighed and reestimated opinion.

The same way as I said "switches are just kinky" I can say "I hate this rain, I'd love if never rained again!" Clearly, this is foolish thought, because I know, that if never rained again, the life on Earth would become impossible, and disappear. But in a moment when I am too much bothered by the rain I can utter this sentence, and I don't expect people to take it literally.

_____________________________

Amicus Plato, sed magis amica veritas. - Aristotle
Plato is my friend, but truth is a better friend. - Aristotle

(in reply to sexyred1)

Post #: 133

RE: Can a slave have plans and aspirations? - 6/9/2010 8:07:59 PM

sexyred1

Posts: 8998
Joined: 8/9/2007
Status: offline

How obtuse.

You are judged by your words on here; that is the only thing we know about you.

So if you speak before thinking, and say what you don't actually think, don't get upset at other's inability to discern what you really meant.

(in reply to SocratesNot)

Post #: 134

RE: Can a slave have plans and aspirations? - 6/9/2010 10:33:22 PM

heartcream

Posts: 3044
Joined: 5/9/2007
From: Psychoalphadiscobetabioaquadoloop
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists

quote:

ORIGINAL: heartcream
So, nu, can you knit?

I dream about this... I aspire to be able to and I am making plans... but it is all in the hands of that committe of one right now *eg*

Well thank you for posting this. I was not getting anymore response from your side although I presented a lifesaving case for the amazing health benefits of knitting.

I am not sure how to beg him any better than I have. Maybe if I tell him his package looks awesome in those leather pants?

_____________________________

"Exaggerate the essential, leave the obvious vague." Vincent Van Gogh

I'd Rather Be With You

Every single line means something.
Jean-Michel Basquiat

(in reply to kyraofMists)

Post #: 135

RE: Can a slave have plans and aspirations? - 6/9/2010 10:41:40 PM

heartcream

Posts: 3044
Joined: 5/9/2007
From: Psychoalphadiscobetabioaquadoloop
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists

quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists
I dream about this... I aspire to be able to and I am making plans... but it is all in the hands of that committe of one right now *eg*
Give it up. There's no way Knight is gonna let you knit now. If he does, it'll sure call into question his stern, harsh, domly credentials. People will begin to think he's a cream puff like me... the ever-so-dreaded "service dominant". I'm sure the mere thought of such a reputation would keep him up awake at night.

LOL Now I know why he has been so restless at night and having bad dreams!! A cream puff and service top.... oh the horror!!

No, no, no, get thee behind me Jeff, you know not what you speak. Did you not read Knights posting? The jury is still out. Knights doesnt need to stand on a presentation of stern harsh domly credentials, puleeeese.

Read his profile.

He is a cream puff. Dont you realize the domliest most domly are freaking cream puffs in their hearts? Iye, mate. You can certainly learn a thing or two from that man but it wont be about trying to keep up a facade of any sort for credentials.

If Knights lets his Kyra knit it will be because as he said he made that decision arbitrarily and hadnt realized the intense health benefits from such a simple joyous activity. When a girl wants to knit, and lord knows, most dont, there is a driving need in her to do so, it is like the knitting is a piece of the machinery that makes her go, that keeps her together. Given teh dynamic it will be a big boon if Knights grants his favor in Kyra's need/desire to knit. I bet if we took a poll and people answered sincerely we would get a concensus that their is less than zero loss of any domly quality Knights essence vapors.

I think there will be an audible swoon factor though if he concedes.

_____________________________

"Exaggerate the essential, leave the obvious vague." Vincent Van Gogh

I'd Rather Be With You

Every single line means something.
Jean-Michel Basquiat

(in reply to kyraofMists)

Post #: 136

RE: Can a slave have plans and aspirations? - 6/10/2010 4:50:29 AM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline

We all have plans and aspirations. But as the saying goes "Man plans, God laughs". (From the Yiddish).

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!

(in reply to heartcream)

Post #: 137

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