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RE: D/s vs. M/s ? - 6/9/2010 9:25:07 AM

Aileen1968

Posts: 6062
Joined: 12/12/2007
From: I miss Shore, New Jersey
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SocratesNot
In M/s, on the other hand - in theory, slave must do anything Master demands, and must ask for permission to do anything he wants himself. The permission can be given or not. Also, the slave doesn't have any rights unless Master decides that he has, and Master can control all slave's intellectual, religious, and other pursuits.
So, slave's only IDENTITY is the identity that Master gives him. This may be almost the same as his own, natural identity, or totally different - but this is up to Master.
In some cases the slave would benefit from total change of identity (if he was pretty much fucked up in the beginning, so any change would be for the better, even if it is totally radical), in some other cases (if the slave has strong and established identity and is very productive and independent before even entering relationship), radical changes of slave's identity and life philosophy would be detrimental to him.

In such relationship I wouldn't be able to be, because I have too strong opinions and beliefs, and life philosophy and I wouldn't allow someone to change them and mold them. I also have very strong aspirations to achieve certain things in my life, and I wouldn't like anyone to try to prevent me in doing so.

I'm his slave. I'm trying to figure out why you think that I'm not allowed my own identity or opinions. I think my five years on this board has certainly shown that I have both. Before and most importantly, after I entered into a relationship with him.
You have it in your head that once given that total power, that a master will completely destroy his slave. Have you ever thought that maybe, just maybe he adds to all of the things about her that he already thinks are wonderful? I am a much better and stronger person since I've been with him. And I'm still me. I haven't lost my identity at all. In fact, I'm much more confident and independent than I ever have been....all within a total power exchange relationship.

_____________________________

(in reply to SocratesNot)

Post #: 21

RE: D/s vs. M/s ? - 6/9/2010 9:27:27 AM

LadyHibiscus

Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline

Why do you folks persist in feeding this troll-in-disguise? There is truly no teaching him, he is not interested in doing anything but offering his wild theories and refusing to believe our REAL LIVES. Talk to your cats. It will be more productive.

_____________________________

[page 23 girl]

(in reply to Aileen1968)

Post #: 22

RE: D/s vs. M/s ? - 6/9/2010 9:28:49 AM

RedMagic1

Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SocratesNot
You identify as a switch. This is two steps away from slave.

I have read all of LuckyAlbatross's posts, several times. Therefore, even though I have never met her or any of her current or former partners, I can state that she is only 1.3333333 steps away from a slave. It is the fault of the CollarMe leadership that she can't list herself correctly. They believe that fractions are unnatural, so they refuse to allow them. Why, take my situation! I am 91% dom, 2% sub, and 7% asexual snugglemonster. Is there an orientation choice for asexual snugglemonster? No! It's not even on the interest list! All we ever talk about is D/s, M/s, BDSM, S&M. Well, what about asm/asm????? That's what I want to know!

I am going to start a thread. That'll fix it.

_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to SocratesNot)

Post #: 23

RE: D/s vs. M/s ? - 6/9/2010 9:31:01 AM

VaguelyCurious

Posts: 5264
Joined: 12/2/2009
From: United Kingdom
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1
I am 91% dom, 2% sub, and 7% asexual snugglemonster.

If I ever find myself in Iowa I demand to tap at *least* that 7%

_____________________________

Sthetic on FetLife.

(in reply to RedMagic1)

Post #: 24

RE: D/s vs. M/s ? - 6/9/2010 9:35:04 AM

SocratesNot

Posts: 812
Joined: 5/17/2010
Status: offline

quote:

I'm his slave. I'm trying to figure out why you think that I'm not allowed my own identity or opinions. I think my five years on this board has certainly shown that I have both. Before and most importantly, after I entered into a relationship with him.
You have it in your head that once given that total power, that a master will completely destroy his slave. Have you ever thought that maybe, just maybe he adds to all of the things about her that he already thinks are wonderful? I am a much better and stronger person since I've been with him. And I'm still me. I haven't lost my identity at all. In fact, I'm much more confident and independent than I ever have been....all within a total power exchange relationship.

Your master is great and he tried to help you build even stronger identity of your own. If I was a master, I would do the same.
But several posters here, including both slaves and masters wrote some posts that made me think in the way I previously described. And I don't think it's about destroying slaves, but just about owning them. Once he owns her, he owns her opinions, beliefs, aspirations, etc, he owns her mind. I don't like it, but many posters describe it in exactly this way. I would never allow someone to own my mind and my soul. But some love it and thrive in it.

< Message edited by SocratesNot -- 6/9/2010 9:37:31 AM >

_____________________________

Amicus Plato, sed magis amica veritas. - Aristotle
Plato is my friend, but truth is a better friend. - Aristotle

(in reply to RedMagic1)

Post #: 25

RE: D/s vs. M/s ? - 6/9/2010 9:54:43 AM

RCdc

Posts: 8674
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SocratesNot

quote:

I'm his slave. I'm trying to figure out why you think that I'm not allowed my own identity or opinions. I think my five years on this board has certainly shown that I have both. Before and most importantly, after I entered into a relationship with him.
You have it in your head that once given that total power, that a master will completely destroy his slave. Have you ever thought that maybe, just maybe he adds to all of the things about her that he already thinks are wonderful? I am a much better and stronger person since I've been with him. And I'm still me. I haven't lost my identity at all. In fact, I'm much more confident and independent than I ever have been....all within a total power exchange relationship.

Your master is great and he tried to help you build even stronger identity of your own. If I was a master, I would do the same.
But several posters here, including both slaves and masters wrote some posts that made me think in the way I previously described. And I don't think it's about destroying slaves, but just about owning them. Once he owns her, he owns her opinions, beliefs, aspirations, etc, he owns her mind. I don't like it, but many posters describe it in exactly this way. I would never allow someone to own my mind and my soul. But some love it and thrive in it.

Where SN? Where are these posts from these masters and slaves that you are claiming there are, because so far all I have seen are people like Aileen, Bear, beth, Jeff, myself, Wyld, kyra...too many to mention describe the exact opposite. That Masters love that their slaves have instinct and desires... that they encourage their endeavours and nurture their aspirations.

Master supports me, encourages me and I in turn support and serve him, submit to his authority and grow. I am never permitted to be false, I am encouraged to be open and honest to him. I am never beaten out of anger or malice, and I do not submit out of fear or because I have nowhere to turn. I paint, I write, I take photographs. I want to learn how to fly and Master is actively encouraging me to look into gaining my license. Yet I am his girl, his property - and his authority allows me to be all I can be, just as much as my service gives him the space he needs in his endeavours.

A master does not have to destroy something to make it his, otherwise he just ends up with a pile of rubbish. Instead he cares and makes improvements to make it even more valuable.

the.dark.

_____________________________

RC&dc

love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to SocratesNot)

Post #: 26

RE: D/s vs. M/s ? - 6/9/2010 10:27:17 AM

VirginPotty

Posts: 11624
Joined: 7/16/2008
From: Virginville
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SocratesNot

BTW, thanks for the links that you provided, I will read some of that, and I hope I'll get some more insight.

I seriously doubt that you will.
Carry on..........................

_____________________________

Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.

(in reply to SocratesNot)

Post #: 27

RE: D/s vs. M/s ? - 6/9/2010 10:49:36 AM

Rochsub2009

Posts: 2536
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SocratesNot

BTW, thanks for the links that you provided, I will read some of that, and I hope I'll get some more insight.

Why not read ALL of it? BTW, based on the patterns that you have shown since you've been here, i rather doubt that you will gain any insight. You seem to have a natural immunity to it. Or perhaps you were inoculated at birth.
Either way, good luck in your continuing quest for understanding of other people's relationships.

(in reply to SocratesNot)

Post #: 28

RE: D/s vs. M/s ? - 6/9/2010 11:43:00 AM

barelynangel

Posts: 6233
Status: offline

M/s i know for sure D/s i can guess at but neither one of them are defined as a relationship of M/s or D/s by the ACTIONS of either party. So OP, you are again wrong in your assessment of what you don't know.

quote:

Once he owns her, he owns her opinions, beliefs, aspirations, etc, he owns her mind.

I think you are misunderstanding the concept of slavery the concept of ownership etc -- he doesn't own her opinions, beliefs, etc as she is a person who can think anything she wishes and since he isn't thinking for her -- he doesn't own that. This is a HUGE misconception many have about slavery, ownership and mastery. What he MAY have is control and determination over how or IF she expresses those opinions, beliefs etc. When i was a slave, i was not a robot to my Master's thinking, i didn't parrot his mindsets or his beliefs. I disagreed with him many times and many times thought he was a butthead -- but what i did do was live under his expectations and standards which meant that if he made a decision then yes it became a decision i would enforce if he so desired, if he stated a concept i disagreed with i did not naysay him publically nor did i have ANY opinion publically unless and until he okayed it (again, this is IF my thoughts did not match his). This wasn't necessarily a determination of his but it was out of respect and understanding that as my Master HIS determinations, understandings, beliefs, and opinions came before my own and my own only existed outside my mind if he allowed it.

I could think anything i wished. Owning my mind was not in making me a robot to HIS mind, but instead it was a concept of KNOWING me and utilizing that knowledge to achieve what he wished from me as his slave. THAT was owning my mind. I think you need to understand what owning means before you ad nauseumly try and tell people what things are. One doesn't have to agree with her Master 100% of the time to be his slave, she simply has to acknowledge the chain of command and what that means when she disagrees with his determinations, opinions, beliefs etc.

Secondly, you will find for many the difference is simply you say tomato i say tomato.

OP just a stupid question but do you understand at all anything you are parrotting as standards of things or absolutes and what those concepts mean in the jist of actually LIVING instead of just dreaming? Seriously, you may try living instead of trying to live vicariously through others via discussions of concepts and articles. Its much more satisfying and understanding those concepts you are parrotting are put into some major perspective.

angel

< Message edited by barelynangel -- 6/9/2010 11:49:50 AM >

_____________________________

What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
R.W. Emerson

(in reply to Rochsub2009)

Post #: 29

RE: D/s vs. M/s ? - 6/9/2010 1:42:33 PM

laurell3

Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SocratesNot

You identify as a switch. This is two steps away from slave. So in your dynamic, this is probably not like with those who identify as slaves.
I could name at least 4-5 women who would agree to a certain extent with my description.

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! For the 10th time, all the term switch means is the person doesn't really fit in either Dominant or Submissive category on CM. It's not remotely close to meaning the garbage you perceive it to mean, they're not "just kinky" necessarily or 2 steps away from anything necessarily. It is a label nothing more, the individuals will vary widely. Stop with the judgment and LISTEN. I could name 20 people that will say you're a blithering idiot who isn't into wiitwd at all, does that mean you would accept it as true?

< Message edited by laurell3 -- 6/9/2010 1:46:41 PM >

_____________________________

I cannot be defined by moments in my life, but must be considered for by the entirety of my existence.

When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

(in reply to SocratesNot)

Post #: 30

RE: D/s vs. M/s ? - 6/9/2010 5:05:22 PM

Daddysredhead

Posts: 23574
Joined: 11/6/2005
From: Northern (yet still part of the South) Virginia
Status: offline

To the OP:

I am a slave to my Master, 100% submissive to Him. In our relationship, He makes the decisions, but He always takes my emotional and physical well-being into consideration.

I am also a switch, in that, I occasionally like to top other people, whether in a play scene or, if with another girl, sexually, just because I'm a little more assertive in the bedroom than the girls I've been with.

You say that switches are 2 steps away from being a slave, but I already am one to DB, so where do I fall on the bell curve that's written on your chalkboard? And if I'm 2 steps away, and I'm almost 6 feet tall, are those 2 giant steps or 2 baby steps? Because I have a long stride and all...

_____________________________

Founding Member, Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair-a's

Do not challenge me to a battle of wits & come to fight unarmed.

Are you really that stupid? ~ Bless your heart

13th doughnut

(in reply to laurell3)

Post #: 31

RE: D/s vs. M/s ? - 6/9/2010 5:26:22 PM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: laurell3

I could name 20 people that will say you're a blithering idiot who isn't into wiitwd at all, does that mean you would accept it as true?

#21 here

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!

(in reply to laurell3)

Post #: 32

RE: D/s vs. M/s ? - 6/9/2010 5:32:24 PM

SocratesNot

Posts: 812
Joined: 5/17/2010
Status: offline

Barelynangel, of course that you can disagree with him, intimately in your mind. But, let's say you think the most influential rock band in the 1960s were The Beatles, and he thinks it was The Rolling Stones. He can order you to tell everyone in the public that you think that the most influential band were The Rolling Stones, and you will do this, despite, personally thinking, that the most influential band were The Beatles. Which means that you can't express your opinions freely, and that people on the outside can't even know if what you say is what you truly think. You are in a way alienated from your own mind and from your own opinions. This is the thing that I'm uncomfortable with.
Other examples - you can be pro-choice and he can be pro-life. You can utterly disagree with pro-life position, but, nevertheless you'll argue for it in the public, and people won't even know your true opinion.
The same goes for Republicans vs. Democrats; vanilla ice-cream vs. chocolate ice-cream, low carb diets vs. low fat diets, pro or contra for death penalty, pro or contra for euthanasia etc. On all of these issues you can profoundly disagree with your Master, but you will argue for his position in the public and not for yours. IMO, this isn't fair, I personally, wouldn't be able to be in such relationship. Or maybe I would if I considered myself to be of average intelligence or bellow, and thought that my Mistress is a lot more intelligent and wise than I am, in this case, I would genuinely believe that her opinions were better than my own. But still in some cases I would so profoundly disagree based on my gut feeling, that, despite believing that she is smarter or wiser, I wouldn't be able to fight for her opinion.

_____________________________

Amicus Plato, sed magis amica veritas. - Aristotle
Plato is my friend, but truth is a better friend. - Aristotle

(in reply to Daddysredhead)

Post #: 33

RE: D/s vs. M/s ? - 6/9/2010 5:40:37 PM

kyraofMists

Posts: 3292
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline

So your issue is that you might pick a partner who would order you to lie?

That is easily resolved. Pick a partner who has integrity and the issue is moot.

Knight's Kyra

_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

(in reply to SocratesNot)

Post #: 34

RE: D/s vs. M/s ? - 6/9/2010 5:58:55 PM

sunshinemiss

Posts: 17673
Joined: 11/26/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

http://www.collarchat.com/m_605383/mpage_1/key_master%252Cdom/tm.htm#606932
Ms vs Ds

http://www.collarchat.com/m_794045/mpage_2/key_kinky/tm.htm#794460
Ds vs bdsm

http://www.collarchat.com/m_486719/mpage_1/key_master%252Cdom/tm.htm#486891
from dom to master

http://www.collarchat.com/m_271859/mpage_2/key_master%252Cdom/tm.htm#272880
dom or master

Master vs Dom

http://www.collarchat.com/m_629559/mpage_1/key_sub%252Cslave/tm.htm#629565
What's the difference between a slave and a submissive?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_616573/mpage_1/key_bdsm/tm.htm#616591
Ds as bdsm

http://www.collarchat.com/m_586226/mpage_1/key_slave%252Csub/tm.htm#586267
Curious, sub v slave?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_515303/mpage_1/key_slave/tm.htm#515333
What is the difference?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_308296/mpage_1/key_slave%252Csub/tm.htm#309867
sub or slave?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_342405/mpage_1/key_slave%252Csub/tm.htm#342794
~slave vs sub~

http://www.collarchat.com/m_410567/mpage_1/key_slave%252Csub/tm.htm#410982
slave or sub

http://www.collarchat.com/m_497775/mpage_1/key_submissive%252Cslave/tm.htm#497977
I'm new to this but...

http://www.collarchat.com/m_366860/mpage_1/key_slave%252Csub/tm.htm#366893
Difference bet/submission and slave?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_365776/mpage_1/key_sub%252Cslave/tm.htm#366767
slub question

http://www.collarchat.com/m_281198/mpage_1/key_slave%252Csub/tm.htm#281512
difference between slave and submissive

http://www.collarchat.com/m_251014/mpage_1/key_sub%252Cslave/tm.htm#251062
definition of "slave"

What's the difference between slaves and submissives?

Submissive or slave?

Slaves versus submissive

Submissive or slave? (2)

Submissive vs slave (2)

Ahhhhhh. Good to have the librarian back!

_____________________________

Yes, I am a wonton hussy... and still sweet as 3.14

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 35

RE: D/s vs. M/s ? - 6/9/2010 6:13:00 PM

barelynangel

Posts: 6233
Status: offline

Umm OP, most men who are masters have a little thing called integrity lol. He never needed me to TAKE ON his opinions so he never had to ORDER me to lie if our opinions differed. And if he had for whatever reason, i would say based upon me, it would depend on the day whether or not i obeyed him. Sure he could have ORDERED me to lie, he could have asked me to lie, etc, but why would he need me too for ANY subject. He was capable of achieving his own merit, he didn't need a slave back up for his opinions. In fact, i doubt he would have USED me to validate his opinions to his peers, i was just a slave.

The good thing about me is i have always been able to play devil's advocate, i know how to see both sides, and working in law has taught me to argue both sides to something lol. If he needed me to argue his side of something rather than my own opinion for whatever reason -- i would have. Why? Because in the end, he was my Master, what HE determined was important was important. Its why he was the authority in my life and was the keeper of my autonomy. My opinions and determinations were secondary to him. However, to me, if he had "ordered" me to do that, knowing him like i did, i would have believed it was something VERY important to him and his need for the support overrode his acceptance of my own opinions.

I believe that married couples may also do this. Sometimes its not about your opinions but instead its about supporting your loved one in something THEY believe rather than your own beliefs.

My opinions were never invalidated with him, dismissed as unnecessary at a certain time sure, but never invalidated. I could argue to my hearts content with him, however, he did determine when i could argue with others. See he had this belief and understanding that as a slave, my opinions were unnecessary to the general whole of Free People. But he also didn't need a slave to argue his point for him among HIS peers.

angel

< Message edited by barelynangel -- 6/9/2010 6:14:40 PM >

_____________________________

What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
R.W. Emerson

(in reply to kyraofMists)

Post #: 36

RE: D/s vs. M/s ? - 6/9/2010 6:18:21 PM

dcnovice

Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: subtee

m & ms

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to subtee)

Post #: 37

RE: D/s vs. M/s ? - 6/9/2010 6:38:06 PM

barelynangel

Posts: 6233
Status: offline

okay, am i losing my mind or did anyone else see a post wherein the OP replied to mine? Because i swear it was here and i was responding to same and then it said this thread no longer accepting new posts and i came back and his post is gone.

angel

_____________________________

What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
R.W. Emerson

(in reply to dcnovice)

Post #: 38

RE: D/s vs. M/s ? - 6/9/2010 6:41:33 PM

VideoAdminZeta

Posts: 1103
Joined: 7/26/2008
From: the darkest recesses of your twisted minds
Status: offline

You're not losing your mind.

(in reply to barelynangel)

Post #: 39

RE: D/s vs. M/s ? - 6/9/2010 6:44:02 PM

barelynangel

Posts: 6233
Status: offline

okay thanks lol i know my imagination can run wild but that was too freaky. Thanks for clarifying.

_____________________________

What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
R.W. Emerson

(in reply to VideoAdminZeta)

Post #: 40

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