RE: Acceptance/Resistance Among The Believers and The Non-Believers

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RE: Acceptance/Resistance Among The Believers and The N... - 6/9/2010 12:13:07 PM

NorthernGent

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I don't recall anyone trying to change my beliefs - not overtly anyway.

It's not a big issue over here - science and religion exist side by side and there's no real friction - Dawkins is a rare exception to the rule.

I'd say the biggest influence on people's beliefs over here is the public education system. To illustrate - before WW1 schols taught that war was a sport and the enemy (take your pick from whomever we didn't have an alliance with at the time - Germany/Russia/France) were game to be hunted. Post WW1 - schoolmasters took some of the blame - and the education system began to teach that war was a crime against human nature. All depends what the establishment wants you to believe - which in turn depends on what they need at a given point in time.

I have a Mother who is what you would call devout - and she couldn't care less that I couldn't care less about whether or not there's a god - mind you I don't really know nor want to know much about science.

Oh - and the options leave a lot to be desired - you assume it's either 'facts or religion' - but of course you can employ vision and imagination without believing in a god.

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Post #: 41

RE: Acceptance/Resistance Among The Believers and The N... - 6/9/2010 12:16:11 PM

rulemylife

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MissAsylum

you may want to go over my original post again. i did not ask for anything you have been spouting. i am writing a paper- not having fun- not trying to stir the pot. i was very specific on what i'm asking for- and for whatever the reason is- you hijack and diviate from the subject. start your own thread and do it there since you feel so inclined to talk about God not being real. i don't care what you believe in- thats your choice. i'm not asking you to prove that God doesn't exsit- or re-word what i have and another poster has said. i do not care.

I'm happy to bow out.

But can you please explain to me, take note that I said please, how the fuck do you write a paper about those that believe in God as opposed to those who do not without addressing the subject of whether there is a God?

(in reply to MissAsylum)

Post #: 42

RE: Acceptance/Resistance Among The Believers and The N... - 6/9/2010 12:58:46 PM

HypnoPants

Posts: 32
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From: Edmonton, Alberta
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MissAsylum

you may want to go over my original post again. i did not ask for anything you have been spouting. i am writing a paper- not having fun- not trying to stir the pot. i was very specific on what i'm asking for- and for whatever the reason is- you hijack and diviate from the subject. start your own thread and do it there since you feel so inclined to talk about God not being real. i don't care what you believe in- thats your choice. i'm not asking you to prove that God doesn't exsit- or re-word what i have and another poster has said. i do not care.

see... problem with that is, when people see this thread up on the main collarme page... when they click on it, all they get is the latest message... and probably respond as such, not even realizing what the original message was.

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Post #: 43

RE: Acceptance/Resistance Among The Believers and The N... - 6/9/2010 5:25:54 PM

Vendaval

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IME, the hard-core religious zealots are the ones most resistant to differing views. People with moderate religious beliefs, agnostics and atheists are usually more give and take. It seems a matter of degree and how inflexible their own belief system is that determines their open-mindedness.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MissAsylum

Again- in your PERSONAL expierence, have you delt with any resistance to your personal views from those who believe purely in facts and science or from those who have faith in a diety or organized religion?

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(in reply to MissAsylum)

Post #: 44

RE: Acceptance/Resistance Among The Believers and The N... - 6/9/2010 5:30:41 PM

Elisabella

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quote:

In your PERSONAL expierence, which group (believers in some type of orgnaized religion/higher being or people who do not believe in any type of organized religion/higher being) has been more open to accepting your views on life or what you choose to believe in?

Again- in your PERSONAL expierence, have you delt with any resistance to your personal views from those who believe purely in facts and science or from those who have faith in a diety or organized religion?

It really depends on what those beliefs are.

I think the most accepting group I've seen are people who are non-religious but still believe in a higher power. Agnostics too.

I don't associate with a lot of atheists or adherents to major religions but I've found that those two groups tend to be the most rigid in what it is they believe.

(in reply to MissAsylum)

Post #: 45

RE: Acceptance/Resistance Among The Believers and The N... - 6/9/2010 5:44:22 PM

Elisabella

Posts: 3939
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery
Kind of an obvious point, isn't it--they and and you already basically agree. Why would there be resistance?

An atheist could say much the same.

I think that's pretty much the crux of it - people are going to find the least resistance to their beliefs from people who share those beliefs, then from people who are ambivalent to those beliefs, and the most from people who believe something diametrically opposed to them.

(in reply to Musicmystery)

Post #: 46

RE: Acceptance/Resistance Among The Believers and The N... - 6/9/2010 5:59:07 PM

DarkSteven

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Well, MissAsylum, you carefully skirted around the word "intolerance"...

In my experience, the degree of piety isn't a factor in tolerance as much as life experience and being in the minority/majority. I have known Mormons living in Utah who were vaguely aware that there were places that were not predominantly Mormon, and I've known some in Maine and Colorado that were very accepting of others. Jews in the United States are quit tolerant and I assume that those in Israel are less so. The Bible Belt Christians are known for intolerance and I assume that they don't know other people, just those like them.

For my part, I work as an engineer around people who have passed background checks and drug tests and assume that that's what typical Americans are like. Then I run across people that smoke, dope, and drink and have no concept of finances, saving for the future, etc. I wouldn't call myself "tolerant" of those people, but they do exist...

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"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

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(in reply to MissAsylum)

Post #: 47

RE: Acceptance/Resistance Among The Believers and The N... - 6/9/2010 7:31:49 PM

TheHeretic

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It's a mixed bag, MissA. To know me well is to be convinced I'm 'just not right,' regardless of the belief system.

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Post #: 48

RE: Acceptance/Resistance Among The Believers and The N... - 6/9/2010 7:54:14 PM

Brain

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My personal experience is there is more resistance from those who have faith in a deity or organized religion. I suggest you do a survey so that you can do an analysis of the results comparing males to females and responses according to various income levels and ages.

(in reply to MissAsylum)

Post #: 49

RE: Acceptance/Resistance Among The Believers and The N... - 6/9/2010 8:35:10 PM

GotSteel

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent
science and religion exist side by side and there's no real friction

*cough* intelligent design *cough*

(in reply to NorthernGent)

Post #: 50

RE: Acceptance/Resistance Among The Believers and The N... - 6/9/2010 8:39:58 PM

GotSteel

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MissAsylum
well for all intent and purpose, i'll post mine.

as some here may know, I am a Jew for Jesus. I am a Jew by birthright, but i do believe Jesus is God's son sent to die for our sins.

Well, I would expect the majority of theists to be more accepting of that position than the rest of us on account of their holding the same belief. I'd be very surprised if the people who held your belief weren't the most accepting of it.

(in reply to MissAsylum)

Post #: 51

RE: Acceptance/Resistance Among The Believers and The N... - 6/9/2010 8:52:23 PM

kittinSol

Posts: 16926
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MissAsylum

as some here may know, I am a Jew for Jesus. I am a Jew by birthright, but i do believe Jesus is God's son sent to die for our sins.

Love it, love it, LOVE IT, when you say IT

.

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Post #: 52

RE: Acceptance/Resistance Among The Believers and The N... - 6/9/2010 9:49:00 PM

DarkSteven

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Joined: 5/2/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Brain

My personal experience is there is more resistance from those who have faith in a deity or organized religion. I suggest you do a survey so that you can do an analysis of the results comparing males to females and responses according to various income levels and ages.

Y'know something, Brain, that kind of thing would be my approach as well - a statistically representative sampling. But she clearly states that she's looking for anecdotal evidence. I'll just assume that her course is not in statistics.

_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

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Post #: 53

RE: Acceptance/Resistance Among The Believers and The N... - 6/9/2010 10:01:11 PM

Brain

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I don't think you can make or come to any conclusions with anecdotal evidence but I suppose she can be philosophical, whatever that means, in her philosophy course.
Bill

(in reply to DarkSteven)

Post #: 54

RE: Acceptance/Resistance Among The Believers and The N... - 6/9/2010 10:16:05 PM

DarkSteven

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Brain

I don't think you can make or come to any conclusions with anecdotal evidence

Well, if you have a choice between hard statistical data and anecdotal evidence, I'll agree with you. But in my job I frequently find that I am unable to get accurate hard data and just have to speak with techs and get their recollections and present that. The conclusions are nowhere near as valid, but if that's all ya got...

_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to Brain)

Post #: 55

RE: Acceptance/Resistance Among The Believers and The N... - 6/10/2010 4:57:30 AM

eyesopened

Posts: 2798
Joined: 6/12/2006
From: Tampa, FL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Brain
I don't think you can make or come to any conclusions with anecdotal evidence but I suppose she can be philosophical, whatever that means, in her philosophy course.
Bill

I agree. Perceptions are just that. Perceptions can be tainted with emotion. One can suspect or perceive that I am loaded with money and living the good life and that is not factual. The best one can do with anecdotal evidence is a sampling of perceptions but at the same time, only people with an interest in the subject are likely to respond to this thread so it's not even a good sample to begin with.

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Post #: 56

RE: Acceptance/Resistance Among The Believers and The N... - 6/10/2010 7:31:03 AM

MissAsylum

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Joined: 1/9/2009
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~FR~

rulemylife: HypnoPants pointed out what i have thought the entire time you have posted: you didn't bother to read my OP. How do I know this? The TITLE is "Acceptance/Resistance Among The Believers and The Non-Believers"- the post doesn't ask for or need for the discussion of there being a high power. Its asking for what group of people (the non-believers or the believers) have given you more acceptance or more resistance. THAT IS IT. And by the way- there is the lovely little quote from my OP:

quote:

I'm collecting information to do a study for my paper on Science vs Religion. PLEASE TAKE NOTE: I am NOT asking for you to try to prove or disprove any exsistance or lack there of God/ higher being, or to share your theories of why religion needs to be destroyed/celebrated, or other things of that nature. There are other threads for that discussion. So PLEASE try to stay on topic.

for future reference- i strongly suggest that you read the OP and respond to it as such.

DarkSteven: I didn't skirt around it- i just didn't use it. lol. Just keep in mind this is a verbatum copy of what needs to be contained in my paper.

TheHeretic: Join the club.

BrainThe survey wouldn't do much- like what was said, its just purely anecdotal, and i'm not being forced to draw a conclusion- just stating what i have learned through research and if i find a conclusion, then i can share my findings.

GotSteel: Well contrary to what was attempted to be pointed out earlier- i can't really side with either group since i do get resistance for both, just more from those who are not religious. I get resistance from Christians because they feel like i should just jump the fence over to being a full Christian and I won't because I refuse to leave my Judaic roots or because I am tolerant of those who do not share the same "morals" as I do Yeah- best friend is a lesbian- I couldn't care less. I care more about a person's soul more than anything. The Jews give me grief due to me believing that Jesus is the Messiah. But both back down due to the fact that i have faith in God.
Overall, there are the non-believers who give me problems because 1- i believe in there being a higher up in the first place and 2- i believe in two of (in their opinions of course) two of the most corrupt organized religions in exsistance today. And I haven't come across one yet(more leaning towards Atheist than Agnostic) that was willing to just agree to disagree with me and leave it at that. Not saying there aren't people who are Atheist and with just respect my beliefs just as well as i respect thiers, I just haven't been fortunate to come across one.

kittinSol: As long as it tickles your fancy.

eyesopened: Agreed. But I didn't come up with it. If i wasn't required to take the course- i'd really doubt i'd waste my life on it.

< Message edited by MissAsylum -- 6/10/2010 7:41:31 AM >

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RE: Acceptance/Resistance Among The Believers and The N... - 6/10/2010 9:08:07 AM

GotSteel

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MissAsylum
But both back down due to the fact that i have faith in God.

That's my point. It shouldn't surprise you that people who have more common ground with you are more accepting of your position. Try telling people that you're an atheist for a while and things might be different. See how many people tell you that you can't be a moral person without god or inform you that you're going to hell. Considering where you live you are probably pretty safe but in a good chunk of this country you might receive death threats.

(in reply to MissAsylum)

Post #: 58

RE: Acceptance/Resistance Among The Believers and The N... - 6/10/2010 9:37:30 AM

MissAsylum

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Joined: 1/9/2009
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I wouldnt say they accept it- they just shut up.

and being somebody who appears to be African American AND a Jew- this area isnt too kind to that.

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Post #: 59

RE: Acceptance/Resistance Among The Believers and The N... - 6/10/2010 10:30:07 AM

SL4V3M4YB3

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From: S.E. London U.K.
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I'm with NorthernGent on this one; I get the most friction from Jehovah Witnesses.

Other than that people here keep their beliefs to themselves, I can't imagine a world where people constantly annoy one another by trying to get them to change their beliefs. Then again I recently discovered that some can't recognise the difference between discussion and coercion.

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Post #: 60

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