Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

Who Is Smarter Than a Fifth Grader


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> Who Is Smarter Than a Fifth Grader Page: [1] 2 3   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
Who Is Smarter Than a Fifth Grader - 6/9/2010 3:29:21 PM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline
On average, people on the left fail Economics 101 when polled using the scientific method:

quote:

Are You Smarter Than a Fifth Grader?

Self-identified liberals and Democrats do badly on questions of basic economics.

Who is better informed about the policy choices facing the country—liberals, conservatives or libertarians? According to a Zogby International survey that I write about in the May issue of Econ Journal Watch, the answer is unequivocal: The left flunks Econ 101.

<snip>

Consider one of the economic propositions in the December 2008 poll: "Restrictions on housing development make housing less affordable." People were asked if they: 1) strongly agree; 2) somewhat agree; 3) somewhat disagree; 4) strongly disagree; 5) are not sure.

Basic economics acknowledges that whatever redeeming features a restriction may have, it increases the cost of production and exchange, making goods and services less affordable. There may be exceptions to the general case, but they would be atypical.

<snip>

In this case, percentage of conservatives answering incorrectly was 22.3%, very conservatives 17.6% and libertarians 15.7%. But the percentage of progressive/very liberals answering incorrectly was 67.6% and liberals 60.1%. The pattern was not an anomaly.

<snip>

Full article here




< Message edited by Sanity -- 6/9/2010 3:30:24 PM >

_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Who Is Smarter Than a Fifth Grader - 6/9/2010 4:02:59 PM   
SL4V3M4YB3


Posts: 3506
Joined: 12/20/2007
From: S.E. London U.K.
Status: offline 		People on the right fail social ethics.

Those on the right can't see past the dollar sign to the suffering it causes, if the housing is social housing I'm all for no restrictions.

And build it next to those fuckers that paid through the nose.

_____________________________

Memory Lane...been there done that.

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: Who Is Smarter Than a Fifth Grader - 6/9/2010 6:37:23 PM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline
Its more cruel to train people to live on handouts than to just leave them to their own devices. Those on the right give far more to charity than those on the left while resisting governmental welfare programs because they are damaging to those who are targeted for such vote purchasing programs as well as to the overall economy, and therefore damaging to the welfare of the entire nation.






< Message edited by Sanity -- 6/9/2010 6:39:13 PM >

_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

(in reply to SL4V3M4YB3)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: Who Is Smarter Than a Fifth Grader - 6/9/2010 7:08:03 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		Of course, the scientific method is about observation, hypothesis, testing.....nothing to do with polling methods.

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: Who Is Smarter Than a Fifth Grader - 6/9/2010 7:10:10 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Of course, the scientific method is about observation, hypothesis, testing.....nothing to do with polling methods.



Deflect, distract, derail.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: Who Is Smarter Than a Fifth Grader - 6/9/2010 7:12:56 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Of course, the scientific method is about observation, hypothesis, testing.....nothing to do with polling methods.

Deflect, distract, derail.

I don't think so. If you're gonna crow about using the scientific method and you clearly don't know what it is, that deserves brief comment.

If you or others want to start making it the point of the thread, I'd say you're contributing healthily to the alleged derailment.

Your mileage may vary.

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: Who Is Smarter Than a Fifth Grader - 6/9/2010 7:14:57 PM   
FirmhandKY


Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Of course, the scientific method is about observation, hypothesis, testing.....nothing to do with polling methods.

Deflect, distract, derail.

I don't think so. If you're gonna crow about using the scientific method and you clearly don't know what it is, that deserves brief comment.

If you or others want to start making it the point of the thread, I'd say you're contributing healthily to the alleged derailment.

Your mileage may vary.


So ... Zogby isn't a real, scientifically based polling organization?

Are is it that just all polls are faked up?

You'd have a better chance of convincing me if you show me how the poll violates the science of polling and statistics.

I'm not going to look otherwise, because my biases says it's accurate.

Firm


_____________________________

Some people are just idiots.

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Who Is Smarter Than a Fifth Grader - 6/9/2010 7:24:28 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		No, Firm, that's not at all what I said.

I pointed out that "the scientific method" is not a polling method. That doesn't mean polling is not done without adherence to standard statistical practice for that (yes, scientific) discipline.

But if we must, OK, lets pick apart the poll.

First, education level and socio-economic status are important indicators here, and they are missing.

Second, questions 4, 5, and 7 are problematic. Four is vague, and "not sure" doesn't really cut it. Certainly a monopoly would fit that description, though yes, that's not a definition of monopoly. Five is quite debatable--if some companies are, even a few, then the question is correct. Seven ignores market equilibrium, the heart of the wage debate. If equilibrium is already above the set wage, nothing would happen. A minor point, perhaps, but then it's supposed to be an economics literacy test.

(in reply to FirmhandKY)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Who Is Smarter Than a Fifth Grader - 6/9/2010 7:28:19 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery
If you're gonna crow about using the scientific method and you clearly don't know what it is, that deserves brief comment.




Comment made.

As for the article in question, I'll give you that at least one of the 8 questions is highly problematic, but even if we play with the scores to account for that, the self-identified lefties seem sorta stupid.



_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Who Is Smarter Than a Fifth Grader - 6/9/2010 7:33:02 PM   
Brain


Posts: 3792
Joined: 2/14/2007
Status: offline 		I think economic models are flawed because they don't include the cost of pollution. The oil spill in the Gulf is a good Example. I think there should have been restrictions on British Petroleum to ensure they were producing the oil safely.

Of course, that would indeed increase the cost of production. But economic models are flawed because there is a significant cost to clean up the destruction caused by the oil in the Gulf. BP needs to be compelled to pay the total amount of those costs but what happens in the case of pollution is that companies get away with passing those pollution costs onto taxpayers.

These archaic economic models may have been adequate in the 18th century but they need to be revised or updated to reflect true outcomes. Liberals aren’t stupid they are creative and think outside the box. I think liberals are well-educated and intuitively foresee these issues and this is reflected in their responses -that is why they are progressive.


(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Who Is Smarter Than a Fifth Grader - 6/9/2010 7:33:33 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		For what it's worth, Rich, just going by their posting history, quite a few here, conservatives as well, would have answered 2, 5 and 6 incorrectly.

Additionally, none of these are fifth grade questions--they're Econ 101 stuff.

And as Klein admits, none of the eight questions specifically challenge the political sensibilities of conservatives and libertarians. It would have been interesting to the poll with another eight questions slanted in the other direction.

That, Firm, would have been a better "scientific" way to go about it.

This poll was designed partisan, and got the result it was written to "find."



< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 6/9/2010 7:38:35 PM >

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Who Is Smarter Than a Fifth Grader - 6/9/2010 8:51:50 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		--Not so fast.

Why are we in this mess?    We have had 8 years of GOP rule.

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Who Is Smarter Than a Fifth Grader - 6/9/2010 8:57:21 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SL4V3M4YB3

People on the right fail social ethics.



And geography - especially here. The dudes can't tell their South from their East (which explains much ) .

_____________________________



(in reply to SL4V3M4YB3)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Who Is Smarter Than a Fifth Grader - 6/9/2010 9:08:53 PM   
FirmhandKY


Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

For what it's worth, Rich, just going by their posting history, quite a few here, conservatives as well, would have answered 2, 5 and 6 incorrectly.

Additionally, none of these are fifth grade questions--they're Econ 101 stuff.

And as Klein admits, none of the eight questions specifically challenge the political sensibilities of conservatives and libertarians. It would have been interesting to the poll with another eight questions slanted in the other direction.

That, Firm, would have been a better "scientific" way to go about it.

This poll was designed partisan, and got the result it was written to "find."


Thank you MM.

Firm


_____________________________

Some people are just idiots.

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Who Is Smarter Than a Fifth Grader - 6/9/2010 9:25:20 PM   
Elisabella


Posts: 3939
Status: offline
quote:

5) Third World workers working for American companies overseas are being exploited (unenlightened answer: agree).


This question is pretty bad. What exactly is the standard for exploitation here? And why are they using terms like "unenlightened" instead of "incorrect"?

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Who Is Smarter Than a Fifth Grader - 6/9/2010 9:44:55 PM   
DarkSteven


Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline 		Wait a doggone second. Question #5 is entirely political - there's a darn good chance that they are being exploited, but it's not a given based on the question.  It will be answered according to political leaning - saying that someone is economically astute based on a vague question like that is wrong.  Question #6 - the stupid liberal response happens to be something that Ross Perot pushed during the debates with him, Clinton, and Bush, and I actually believe it. Question #7 - I suspect that raising the minimum wage DOES increase joblessness, but have never seen any actual proof that it does and a lot of proofless arguing.

Question #4 is poorly posed - a monopoly IS a company with the largest market share, namely 100%.

Question #1 is missing the phrase "in a free market economy".  Else Section 8's restrictions could be misinterpreted as a restriction and, due to its subsidy, Section 8 DOES make housing more affordable.

That said, Questions #2 and #3 are pretty clear as written. 


_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to Elisabella)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Who Is Smarter Than a Fifth Grader - 6/9/2010 10:14:25 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven
  Else Section 8's restrictions could be misinterpreted as a restriction and, due to its subsidy, Section 8 DOES make housing more affordable.




Not to hijack, Steve, and I'm happy to discuss the subject on a separate thread, but Section 8 does not make housing more affordable. It acts as an artificial prop on rental rates, often putting decent housing above the means of regular working people.

Or do you mean in the impact on the property values of the neighbors?

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to DarkSteven)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Who Is Smarter Than a Fifth Grader - 6/9/2010 10:18:24 PM   
DarkSteven


Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic


quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven
Else Section 8's restrictions could be misinterpreted as a restriction and, due to its subsidy, Section 8 DOES make housing more affordable.




Not to hijack, Steve, and I'm happy to discuss the subject on a separate thread, but Section 8 does not make housing more affordable. It acts as an artificial prop on rental rates, often putting decent housing above the means of regular working people.

Or do you mean in the impact on the property values of the neighbors?


Nope, it DOES make housing more affordable for the renters.  They pay less in rent.

A classical liberal would take it that way, while a classical conservative like you would factor in the cost of the subsidy as well.


_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Who Is Smarter Than a Fifth Grader - 6/9/2010 10:38:07 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		It's subsidized housing, Steve. Maybe it comes in a little check from the tenant, and a bigger check from the administering authority, but the landlord is still getting full price.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to DarkSteven)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Who Is Smarter Than a Fifth Grader - 6/9/2010 10:47:03 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline 		Why is a Dec. 2008 poll news today?

But as Steven pointed out these questions are at best poorly worded and at worst outright unanswerable.

Take #6 "Free trade leads to unemployment." Both answers are arguably true. Its a matter of time frame. In the short term free trade causes disruptions in the market which inevitably leads to people losing their jobs but in the longer term the economy expands and more new jobs are created than were lost.

I'm pretty sure i can write 8 biased questions about economics that will be answered "wrong" by cons. Doesn't make conservative dumb or uninformed but any conservative who tries to make hay from the poll presented here is both.

(in reply to DarkSteven)
Profile   Post #: 20
Page:   [1] 2 3   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> Who Is Smarter Than a Fifth Grader Page: [1] 2 3   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.078