RE: Who Is Smarter Than a Fifth Grader (Full Version)

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Sanity -> RE: Who Is Smarter Than a Fifth Grader (6/10/2010 12:07:57 PM)


All the money we put into SS crashes a little every day due to inflation, and the stock markets doing far better than that on average, long haul. And the stock market isn't the only investment vehicle there is, many good investments are extremely safe.








Arpig -> RE: Who Is Smarter Than a Fifth Grader (6/10/2010 12:12:24 PM)

quote:

Try this one - what is the actual rate of return on the retirement money we're forced to give to the government to invest for us in Social Security?
Can't be answered...too many undefined variables...how long & how much contributed, at what age and for how long does the person collect...it could be quite substantial or quite small depending on the answers to those questions.




mnottertail -> RE: Who Is Smarter Than a Fifth Grader (6/10/2010 12:15:19 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

quote:

Try this one - what is the actual rate of return on the retirement money we're forced to give to the government to invest for us in Social Security?
Can't be answered...too many undefined variables...how long & how much contributed, at what age and for how long does the person collect...it could be quite substantial or quite small depending on the answers to those questions.


Well it can't be answered in any case, (unless you want to answer a negative return) because there is no social security money, it has been IOUed and intergovernmental transferred.

We are borrowing those payments too. 




pahunkboy -> RE: Who Is Smarter Than a Fifth Grader (6/10/2010 12:32:43 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


All the money we put into SS crashes a little every day due to inflation, and the stock markets doing far better than that on average, long haul. And the stock market isn't the only investment vehicle there is, many good investments are extremely safe.


Yes- but do you think it is an either or- question?

It will be bait and switch.




rulemylife -> RE: Who Is Smarter Than a Fifth Grader (6/10/2010 1:23:16 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


All the money we put into SS crashes a little every day due to inflation, and the stock markets doing far better than that on average, long haul. And the stock market isn't the only investment vehicle there is, many good investments are extremely safe.




What the 2008 Stock Market Crash Means for Retirement Security



The recent stock market crash reminds us how important Social Security benefits, which
are based on lifetime earnings and do not fluctuate with the stock market, are for maintaining
adequate retirement income for most retirees.

Had Social Security been invested in private accounts, the impact of the stock market crash on retirement outcomes would have been much larger—positive or negative, depending on one’s birth cohort and future market performance.







hlen5 -> RE: Who Is Smarter Than a Fifth Grader (6/10/2010 1:56:27 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery
If you're gonna crow about using the scientific method and you clearly don't know what it is, that deserves brief comment.




Comment made.

As for the article in question, I'll give you that at least one of the 8 questions is highly problematic, but even if we play with the scores to account for that, the self-identified lefties seem sorta stupid.




How about instead of calling one side or the other stupid (from answers to a biased test) we look for some real LEADERSHIP from either side of the aisle to fix our problems?





thompsonx -> RE: Who Is Smarter Than a Fifth Grader (6/10/2010 4:19:02 PM)

quote:

How about instead of calling one side or the other stupid (from answers to a biased test) we look for some real LEADERSHIP from either side of the aisle to fix our problems?



I want some of what you are smokin'




TheHeretic -> RE: Who Is Smarter Than a Fifth Grader (6/10/2010 6:06:54 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


TheHeretic accurately described your third grade debate tactics on page one where he wrote, "Deflect, distract, derail."



I don't believe he was talking to me, but let's not let facts get in the way, otherwise you would never have anything to post.




I wasn't, but if the shoe fits... In your case, RML, it always does




InvisibleBlack -> RE: Who Is Smarter Than a Fifth Grader (6/10/2010 6:33:24 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY
So ... Zogby isn't a real, scientifically based polling organization?

Are is it that just all polls are faked up?

You'd have a better chance of convincing me if you show me how the poll violates the science of polling and statistics.

I'm not going to look otherwise, because my biases says it's accurate. [8D]

Firm


I read this article earlier this afternoon and then tracked down the blog of the scientist who performed the experiment and downloaded his original report. I have a couple of comments:

1) This test suffers from serious confirmation bias in two areas. The first is that all of the questions are ones that a "right-wing" person would agree with and that a "left-wing" person would disagree with. This obviously skews the results. A fair test would have been something along the lines of 4 questions that a "left-wing" person would disagree with, 4 that a "right-wing" person would disagree with and then 4 that the "average" person would disagree with. This would have eliminated someone's innate political bias from skewing the results. Secondly - he included "Don't know/not sure" as a "correct" answer. This tilts the results to being ignorant of the answer and knowing that you're ignorant as being "not incorrect". A better option would have been to discard the "don't know" results from either being viewed as "correct" or "incorrect".

2) The designer of the test is, himself, obviously biased. A "pure" test would have had him come up with the concept, someone else design the test and then a third person, who either did not know what the test was about or had noleanings either way conduct the test and correlate the answers.

3) He goes out of his way to adjust for educational bias (in fact, there's an entire section on how the level of education does not correlate with how one answers the questions but political leanings hugely correlate) but he also gathers an enormous amount of personal information (gender, marital status, fear of death (I'm not kidding) and dozens of other things) and I would be curious to see if there's any correlation of any other area.

4) All of that being said, I truly appreciate his work. He included all of his raw data. You can download the spreadsheet with all his results, including the questions he threw out. You can run your own analysis, include or exclude any questions and develop your own correlation matrix. That's a scientist.That's someone who's looking for valid criticism and feedback. That's so damn rare these days that it's wonderful to see.

5) From a purely anecdotal standpoint - he may be right. Based solely on the people I know with degrees in economics or working in the field of economics, a greater number of them are right-leaning  / conservative / libertarian than I tend to see in the general population. Whether this is because more right-leaning people seek careers in economics, or whether being trained in economics tends to skew one more towards the right-wing would be the question that would need to be investigated as correlation does not equal causality.




dcnovice -> RE: Who Is Smarter Than a Fifth Grader (6/10/2010 6:59:35 PM)

Great post, IB! Many thanks for sharing the fruit of your research.




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