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Mistress Unfair or no? - 6/10/2010 7:12:25 PM   
Ambition09


Posts: 5
Joined: 6/10/2010
Status: offline 		Ok, we'll i just have a question...

Ok  please be 100% honest with me due to us not knowing each other (You guys/girls, and me). We'll my girlfriend has got me to join this little "Slave, and mistress" relationship about two month ago. We'll I'm totally new to this, she's 20, I'm 18, and we live alone in a duplex. I know my question may sound a little dumb, but just read it and tell me your thoughts, and see my side of it. Ok we'll sometimes I get the feeling she's taking advantage of me. Like this contract for example, I didn't get to have a safeword because she knew I'd abuse it, i know it's wrong, but to not have it sometimes is a little unfair, due to everyone GOING to abuse it atleast once(IMO).

1.) A few days ago I broke a few rules, and I was suppose to get whipped with the belt, I refused, and she was arguing with me telling me I was getting punished "wheather I liked it or not", and how I'm only making things worse. Now, I'm not a violent person, and probably the most submissive guy here (Not a doormat), but I kept it to my self & felt VERY VERY VERY annoyed when she told me the "wheather I liked it or not part"..Here's my question to this, I know I signed the contract, but considering how I refused, and the contract isn't really legit, SHOULDNT that be how it ends since I said no? I ended up losing the argument, and it makes me very mad that i ended up still getting belted.

2.) She gets turned on by hitting, and getting rough other physical ways with me, but claims she gets even more turned on when I don't like it. She tells me how I signed the contract already, but this just sounds like bullying to me.

Does anyone get what I mean? If I ever get mad (I never yell), I have to save it for when ever I get permission to speak on anything that's bothering me. I don't mean right after she's done talking, it's when ever she "WANTS" to hear.

Besides that, I'm not really having a problem with anything else. I'm just against the pain related things..
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Mistress Unfair or no? - 6/10/2010 7:36:19 PM   
MsLadySue


Posts: 2254
Joined: 12/18/2004
Status: offline 		Did you make sure the contract stated what you would allow and the things that were a hard limit for you? If you didn't let it be known up front that you were against having to submit to her pain play then you have no one to blame but yourself for your predicament. Having read your question and other details, I don't get the sense you are submissive and you just allowed this situation to come about because you wanted to make her happy. Perhaps the only time you want this type of relationship is in the bedroom and she wants it to be all aspects of your life together.

edited for spelling

< Message edited by MsLadySue -- 6/10/2010 7:37:34 PM >

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RE: Mistress Unfair or no? - 6/10/2010 7:44:31 PM   
Glasgow


Posts: 248
Joined: 6/7/2010
Status: offline 		One of my limits is no sadism outside of punishment. I don't like to be beaten during play, and I'm going to make that known before anything happens.

I would give you a break because you are new to the scene, but your mistress may not. Tell her plainly that you don't wish to be physically hurt. If she doesn't comply, you must leave.


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I wash my hands of this weirdness.

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RE: Mistress Unfair or no? - 6/10/2010 7:59:06 PM   
DarkSteven


Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline 		Okay.  Stop.

You're in a relationship.  She tells you that she's the Mistress and you're the slave.  She makes the rules, she makes the contract, and you just sign it and do what she says.

And then you don't like it.

No issues.  You tried it and it's not working for you.  Now go to her and suggest a different contract, one that you actually have input on.  Remember, you can always walk.


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RE: Mistress Unfair or no? - 6/10/2010 8:27:04 PM   
sweetsub1957


Posts: 2201
Joined: 4/28/2009
Status: offline 		When you signed the contract, did that contract include your list of hard limits? If you wanted/needed one & she didn't allow you a safeword, why did you sign the contract? Did you know ahead of time that she was sadistic? Were you really wanting to be a slave, or did you just do it to make her happy? Did you actually read the contract before signing? Since you did sign the contract, you did give her the say so. But, since real slavery is illegal, i suppose you could just walk away. But, if she is willing, why not discuss things with her? i suppose when you say "SHOULDNT that be how it ends since I said no?" you could do that, but then you're running the show rather than being a slave.You're both still very young and have a lot to experience and learn still (NOT meant to be an insult or a stab), so just talk with her and see what happens. If she's not willing to talk, then you have a decision to make.....

~sweetsub~

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"That's not just a chip on her shoulder, that's the whole potato!" ~Lady Angelika~

In lowering yourself to talking behind my back, you're perfectly positioned to kiss my ass.

An it harm none, do what ye wilt.

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RE: Mistress Unfair or no? - 6/10/2010 8:39:36 PM   
DommeKeliDallas


Posts: 311
Joined: 1/27/2008
Status: offline 		WALK...put one foot in front of the other and walk.
Playing is playing. It is supposed to be FUN and sexy to BOTH.

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RE: Mistress Unfair or no? - 6/10/2010 9:28:53 PM   
GraciousLady


Posts: 529
Joined: 7/7/2009
Status: offline 		Why would you let anyone do something to you that you do not want? This is not a BDSM issue. You said no. No is no. Then you let her hit you and you didn't want her to because you don't like pain. You also say she argued with you about it. There really should have been no arguement at all. You said no. Neither of you have an idea about what this lifestyle is about.

One more point: You state she gets turned on if you don't like what she's doing. That's not this lifestyle. That's abuse if you don't want something done to you and someone forces it on you.

Get this straight before she loses her temper and really hurts you or you lose yours and hurt her.

(in reply to Ambition09)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Mistress Unfair or no? - 6/10/2010 9:39:16 PM   
undergroundsea


Posts: 2400
Joined: 6/27/2004
From: Austin, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ambition09
My girlfriend has got me to join this little "Slave, and mistress" relationship about two month ago. We'll I'm totally new to this, she's 20, I'm 18, and we live alone in a duplex. I know my question may sound a little dumb, but just read it and tell me your thoughts, and see my side of it. Ok we'll sometimes I get the feeling she's taking advantage of me. Like this contract for example, I didn't get to have a safeword because she knew I'd abuse it, i know it's wrong, but to not have it sometimes is a little unfair, due to everyone GOING to abuse it atleast once(IMO).


Your post makes me wonder if it is that you have a submissive personality (socially) but are not into BDSM. In any case, even if you enjoy D/s, you do not enjoy SM, which, incidentally, is a valid choice and practiced by many. I sense that you agreed to try this relationship at suggestion of your girlfriend and do not like the structure of the relationship but succumb to its terms because you are outwitted.

BDSM without consent is considered abuse. Presently, it seems you are not fully consenting, and you not fully withdrawing consent. Withdrawing consent is an option that is always available. If you clearly withdraw consent, then it puts her in the wrong. And if you withdraw consent for something that she must have in a relationship, it can mean that you two will part ways and you have to be prepared to accept such an outcome. In case you are unhappy but don't want to walk away for sake of confrontation or for being single, you have to be willing to walk away and believe that you can find another relationship.

To not allow a safeword so that it is not used whenever there is inconvenience, or simply for sake of not having a safeword is reasonable enough if both people wish to go that route. If you want to have a way to say stop, wanting a safeword is reasonable. If you want to continue this relationship, you can instead adopt a system where using the safeword leads to a discussion about why you wish to stop. Under this system, if that reason is legitimate, then the safeword should be honored. If not, then you should comply. However, even that has to happen only if you generally consent to have a relationship or dynamic of this nature. You don't have to play slave if you don't want to be a slave. If you want to be a slave then we have a whole other discussion.

What constitutes a legitimate use of safeword is a complex issue. I expect you would have to be convincing that the use of safeword is appropriate (it is something you wish to generally avoid as a boundary versus just at that moment) and I sense that even if you have a legitimate scenario, she might outwit you. I think the difficulty in the situation arises because you two are wired for different types of relationship.

Just remember, you can always withdraw consent. If she does not agree to it then you can say the matter is important enough where you are becoming unhappy in the relationship. If you are worried about how to deliver such a message, let me know and I will try to write up an example conversation.

quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetsub1957
Did you actually read the contract before signing? Since you did sign the contract, you did give her the say so.


Even if you were not new to such concepts and persuaded to try this relationship, which I consider to justify more leeway, a contract cannot be used to compel you. From a practical perspective, you can reject the contract or you can ask for the contract to be renegotiated. In my opinion, a BDSM contract is a communication tool to outline and compare expectations--it is not a binding instrument. And negotiation is not a one-time thing but an ongoing and dynamic one. To say that you agreed to something when you first discussed the contract is neither a compelling argument nor a practical one (even if it can be compelled).

quote:

Besides that, I'm not really having a problem with anything else. I'm just against the pain related things..


I sense it is not just the pain that is an issue. I sense that overall relationship structure and how much of a say you can have is also an issue. It is possible that respect and regard for how you feel is also an issue.

Frankly, I am not optimistic about your situation.

quote:

I kept it to my self & felt VERY VERY VERY annoyed when she told me the "wheather I liked it or not part"..Here's my question to this, I know I signed the contract, but considering how I refused, and the contract isn't really legit, SHOULDNT that be how it ends since I said no? I ended up losing the argument, and it makes me very mad that i ended up still getting belted.


What I see is that you are holding resentment, which is unhealthy in a relationship even if one seeks slavery--it is not clear to me whether you do or not.

quote:


2.) She gets turned on by hitting, and getting rough other physical ways with me, but claims she gets even more turned on when I don't like it. She tells me how I signed the contract already, but this just sounds like bullying to me.


I sense she enjoys emotional SM. I sense you do not enjoy emotional or physical masochism. This mismatch is one about which I am not optimistic.

quote:

If I ever get mad (I never yell), I have to save it for when ever I get permission to speak on anything that's bothering me. I don't mean right after she's done talking, it's when ever she "WANTS" to hear.


This type of rule is reasonable enough in an M/s dynamic but, again, it is not clear to me whether you are wired for such a dynamic.

I do not know enough about your girlfriend to know how much she is going about it with good intentions with adequate regard to how you feel, and how much she is using your younger age, submissive personality, and her greater wit to browbeat you into accepting something she wants but you do not. I do not agree with some of what she is doing and it could also be a matter of experience, and between blurring fantasy with reality. Sometimes fantasy can be realized, sometimes it cannot.

If you are unhappy in a relationship, the relationship is not serving its purpose and it is not your fault. You can then either see if there is room for the relationship to adjust so that each person is happy. If not, I think it is best to conclude incompatibility and move on so as to end the source of negativity and allow each person to find a relationship that does make each person happy.

Cheers,

Sea

(in reply to sweetsub1957)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Mistress Unfair or no? - 6/10/2010 9:41:49 PM   
laurell3


Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline 		First of all, I don't care how submissive you are. You can negotiate what you will and will not do. That includes a safeword. Typically that is at the BEGINNING of the relationship, but it sounds as if you just accepted what was offerred. That's ok, try to communicate with her and tell her you want to renegotiate. It may not work, however.

If you are using the safeword all the time (unless you are playing until the word is used by agreement), then you're probably not a good fit kinkwise for the person that you are with. Her saying you cannot have a safeword because you will abuse it is ridiculous.

You can also negotiate the type of bdsm you want to engage in and should as you seem to have some limits there. That's fine, we all have limits.

This "Mistress" may not be looking for someone that wants what you do, but you have to honestly tell her, this is what is acceptable to me and this is not and if she still will not listen, find someone that will. A contract is supposed to a guideline for your relationship, not her excuse to ignore what you believe is harmful to you.

Finally, if someone is hitting you in anger, LEAVE THEM. That is not bdsm.



< Message edited by laurell3 -- 6/10/2010 9:43:55 PM >

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RE: Mistress Unfair or no? - 6/10/2010 10:27:17 PM   
sweetsub1957


Posts: 2201
Joined: 4/28/2009
Status: offline 		In all fairness, even though i did say:
quote:

ORIGINAL: undergroundsea
quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetsub1957
Did you actually read the contract before signing? Since you did sign the contract, you did give her the say so.

Even if you were not new to such concepts and persuaded to try this relationship, which I consider to justify more leeway, a contract cannot be used to compel you. From a practical perspective, you can reject the contract or you can ask for the contract to be renegotiated.

i also went on to say:
quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetsub1957
But, since real slavery is illegal, i suppose you could just walk away. But, if she is willing, why not discuss things with her?

and:
quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetsub1957
You're both still very young and have a lot to experience and learn still (NOT meant to be an insult or a stab), so just talk with her and see what happens. If she's not willing to talk, then you have a decision to make.....

So i did tell him to talk it out w/ her and if they couldn't come to an agreement that he could still "walk."

~sweetsub~

_____________________________

Member: Lance's Fag Hags.

"That's not just a chip on her shoulder, that's the whole potato!" ~Lady Angelika~

In lowering yourself to talking behind my back, you're perfectly positioned to kiss my ass.

An it harm none, do what ye wilt.

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RE: Mistress Unfair or no? - 6/11/2010 2:37:08 AM   
undergroundsea


Posts: 2400
Joined: 6/27/2004
From: Austin, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetsub1957


I often use quotes to establish context for comments that follow. I meant to replace your quoted text with text from the OP referencing the contract, and this edit got left out. I am sorry for making it seem as if you did not make a similar statement against the contract.

Cheers,

Sea

(in reply to sweetsub1957)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Mistress Unfair or no? - 6/11/2010 3:10:28 AM   
gedienstig


Posts: 155
Joined: 5/9/2010
Status: offline 		Well, I kinda agree with her with the "whether you like it or not", punishment is not something which you necessarily have to like. Kinda inclusive of punishment actually you don't like it.

However, there are some things I think are unfair of your Mistress:

1. Not being allowed a stopword. Even if you have to use it after 5 lashes of the belt, if you feel that is when it needs to stop, then it needs to stop. She should know this is a basic assumption of s&m, usually there is also a "mercy word" even.

2. It seems you signed a contract, without been given enough time to try things. I mean, she should have whipped you a few times before putting something on paper, so you could afterwards say: You know, this is nothing for me. It seems you didn't get to try some essential things before agreeing to a slave-mistress relationship. And you know, a contract like that in essence can be negotiated and turned into a new one. It's not like she's gonna take it up to a judge and plea that her boyfriend will not let her beat him, even though he signed a contract.

3. I don't have a third point, but only numbering 2 points seemed rather silly in hindsight

3.

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RE: Mistress Unfair or no? - 6/11/2010 4:24:20 PM   
sweetsub1957


Posts: 2201
Joined: 4/28/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: undergroundsea

quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetsub1957


I often use quotes to establish context for comments that follow. I meant to replace your quoted text with text from the OP referencing the contract, and this edit got left out. I am sorry for making it seem as if you did not make a similar statement against the contract.

Cheers,

Sea


No prob.

_____________________________

Member: Lance's Fag Hags.

"That's not just a chip on her shoulder, that's the whole potato!" ~Lady Angelika~

In lowering yourself to talking behind my back, you're perfectly positioned to kiss my ass.

An it harm none, do what ye wilt.

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RE: Mistress Unfair or no? - 6/11/2010 5:55:41 PM   
Toppingfrmbottom


Posts: 6528
Joined: 6/7/2009
Status: offline 		Just because you'd abuse the safe word or be tempted to don't lump every one out there into the same category. not every one is going to be tempted to abuse a safety measure. Some people know better than that and wouldn't dream of it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ambition09
I didn't get to have a safeword because she knew I'd abuse it, i know it's wrong, but to not have it sometimes is a little unfair, due to everyone GOING to abuse it atleast once(IMO).



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RE: Mistress Unfair or no? - 6/11/2010 6:47:16 PM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline 		Ambition,

If you're going to be a submissive in a relationship, then I think you need to learn how to be assertive.  Nothing can work well, otherwise. 

By 'assertive' I don't mean aggressive.  I mean firm and clear.  You need to have those qualities as a submissive - not just for your sake, but for your partner's, as well.

In a D/s relationship, you can't count on enjoying everything that 'she' does to you, or that she wants you to do.  You know that you can't expect to spend every minute of the day with a hard-on.  That's part of the deal.

But you must be firm and clear about where your boundaries are.  You must be able to say 'No' - and make her stop - when you need to.  That way, she's clear, too - she knows the area in which she can have fun, and she knows the borders of it.  She knows that you're not suddenly going to ditch her, because she's gone too far.

A submissive in a partnership mustn't give up whatever sense of assertiveness he's got.  Quite to the contrary: he or she needs to be clearer than ever before with it. Submissives cannot afford to be weeds - not if they want to survive, and not if they love their partners. 

You'll hurt her unless you're firm with her.

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RE: Mistress Unfair or no? - 6/11/2010 7:37:11 PM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

If you're going to be a submissive in a relationship, then I think you need to learn how to be assertive. 


Can we put this on the front page of CM when people sign in please?

Can you imagine how many issues here would be resolved if more people understood this?

- LA

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RE: Mistress Unfair or no? - 6/11/2010 8:51:07 PM   
LafayetteLady


Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
Status: offline 		You are young, just recently considered an "adult." On top of that, the whole "M/s" thing is a new experience as well. Honestly, the way you wrote your post, it appears that you weren't given the opportunity to put your thoughts or expectations into this "contract." It sounds as though she introduced you to the concept of her being a mistress and your her slave and then presented you with a "contract" where she spelled out how the relationship was going to be without any input from you.

Sounds very self centered and manipulative to me.

BDSM is a brand new experience for you, you admit that. You don't say whether this is something brandy, spanking (pardon the pun) new to her as well. Her experience level likely makes a huge difference is the motivation (for lack of a better word at the moment).

If she is as new and inexperienced as you, then her way of approaching things is because she doesn't know through experience and thinks this is how things work. Solution is simple. Show her this post and let it open a dialogue about what you both are expecting from the relationship.

On the other hand, if she is experienced, what you have posted makes her appear quite manipulative. For example, her saying you aren't "entitled" to a safeword because she opines that you would abuse it. Well, it would appear that she was already aware that you weren't a masochist. She also openly admits she is more turned on when she knows you don't like what is occuring. By refusing you a safeword, in her mind, this allows her to do whatever she wants to you, especially those things you don't like or want and you have no way out of it. She seems to be using the excuse that you would "abuse" a safe word when in reality, you would be using it to stop the activities you find intolerable, displeasureable, etc.

In a 2 month old relationship, neither of you knows the other well enough for there not to be a safeword. Many couples start with a safeword and then as time progresses and they get to know each other, the need lessens and often disappears.

Yes, no means no. It would seem that your partner, by way of her contract and her actions is letting you know that when you say "no" that is her cue to step up the sadism another notch for her pleasure.

Speaking of pleasure, no where in your post do you mention anything about any pleasure YOU get from this relationship. This is, after all, still a relationship between two people, and both should be getting some pleasure and happiness out of it.

No insult intended, but again you are quite young. If this doesn't work out, you have a long life ahead of you to find the one who will listen to you when you need to express something as opposed to dismissing you. While you say you aren't a doormat, your post makes it seem as though your partner wants a living, breathing blow up doll that she doesn't need to consider the feelings of. Yes, there are a lot of people who get off on total objectivication, it sounds as though that isn't something you wanted.

Given those facts, you have 3 choices....have a grown up conversation and renegotiate the "contract," give up on the relationship and seek somone who will make you happy, or stay and leaves things as they are. That will guarantee that you remain as confused and unhappy as you seem to be right now.

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Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Mistress Unfair or no? - 6/11/2010 10:54:51 PM   
Nineveh


Posts: 1299
Joined: 2/5/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GraciousLady

Why would you let anyone do something to you that you do not want? This is not a BDSM issue. You said no. No is no. Then you let her hit you and you didn't want her to because you don't like pain. You also say she argued with you about it. There really should have been no arguement at all. You said no. Neither of you have an idea about what this lifestyle is about.

One more point: You state she gets turned on if you don't like what she's doing. That's not this lifestyle. That's abuse if you don't want something done to you and someone forces it on you.

Get this straight before she loses her temper and really hurts you or you lose yours and hurt her.


There are some who are into having things done to them that they do not enjoy.  However it does not sound like the OP is one of them.  Enduring things that you don't enjoy for your owners pleasure can certainly be a part of BDSM without being abuse.  That doesn't mean it is right for the OP and I think he needs to have a serious talk with his "Mistress" and if she won't renegotiate the contract he should probably walk.

(in reply to GraciousLady)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Mistress Unfair or no? - 6/12/2010 12:58:50 PM   
MarcEsadrian


Posts: 852
Joined: 8/24/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ambition09

Ok  please be 100% honest with me due to us not knowing each other (You guys/girls, and me). We'll my girlfriend has got me to join this little "Slave, and mistress" relationship about two month ago.

Here's my question to this, I know I signed the contract, but considering how I refused, and the contract isn't really legit, SHOULDNT that be how it ends since I said no? I ended up losing the argument, and it makes me very mad that i ended up still getting belted.

2.) She gets turned on by hitting, and getting rough other physical ways with me, but claims she gets even more turned on when I don't like it. She tells me how I signed the contract already, but this just sounds like bullying to me.


As others have suggested here, it would appear you two are not the best match (though I suspect she finds you just perfect). I gleaned this by your phrasing of things when writing, "well my girlfriend has got me to join this little 'slave, and Mistress' relationship about two months ago." It sounds to me you were cajoled into it, and entered a strictly structured M/s relationship reluctantly or hesitantly—and that is certainly not the way to enter one. Any Mistress with a pinch of reason or experience should know this, and if she indeed does it casts an interesting light on motive.

Is she a bully? I don't think anyone can really make that assessment in this limited environment, nor should they. It does seem she has a penchant for sadism—of both the physical and mental variety—but it also would appear she's not taking your wiring entirely into consideration. You need to communicate with her and try to find a structure that works for both your respective psychologies (if you really believe it's worth keeping at this). One thing that seems clear is that she gets turned on by causing physical pain, and she takes enjoyment in seeing how much you're willing to suffer against your will for her. Unless you have or develop a propensity for masochism, your resentment will not go away under her style of tyranny.

_____________________________

Omnes una manet nox

Founder, Humbled Females

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Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Mistress Unfair or no? - 6/12/2010 1:34:13 PM   
submale4u2spank


Posts: 75
Joined: 11/24/2006
Status: offline 		1)  You should get a safe word, for actual safety, physical and emotional.
2)  What rule(s) did you break?  You probably should just take your whipping and say that you are sorry.

(in reply to MarcEsadrian)
Profile   Post #: 20
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