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Refusing slave... - 6/11/2010 4:35:52 PM

TheSubMale

Posts: 6
Joined: 6/10/2010
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http://www.collarchat.com/m_3251807/tm.htm (Mistress Unfair or No)

Before i begin, yes I know the mistress was outwitting the slave, but my question is detailed in what I'm asking.

Ok i was browsing, and I've read a thread which kind of got me a little concerned. Everyone was saying the slave has a right to not accept a punishment (Which was a spanking with the belt) if he really doesn't want to, we'll my question is this...If a slave has signed him/her self away completely to there mistress in a contract stating they have "No safewords, Their body, mind, and soul belongs completely to the mistress, and that they will accept any punishment given from the mistress with out arguing"..shouldn't the mistress be able to do what ever she has to do to make sure the slave is punished?

What would you mistresses do with a slave who refuses to accept his whipping?

I believe the mistress has a right to argue with them, or try & force the whipping due to them being in a slave/mistress relationship..It just honestly ruins everything, if the slave says no after he already signed away his rights. We'll i was just wondering, I'm not in that type of relationship yet, and I don't plan on getting in the situation. But i think a good mistress should not accept any of the slaves tantrums, and still dish out the punishment without sending him home.

Post #: 1

RE: Refusing slave... - 6/11/2010 4:46:28 PM

laurell3

Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
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If you go back and read that OP you will see that he didn't negotiate or communicate his needs or desires at all with his girlfriend when agreeing to their dynamic. Now he is attempting to, but she's not listening. That's not the usual case. Thus the responses of, you need to negotiate and/or tell her what your limits are. Everyone has limits. Finding a person that fits with accepts those limits and communicating them up front is what avoids those type of situations.

I think that situation is much different than someone that participated in open communication and agreed to a situation. Then again, if I was the one holding the whip, I would want to know WHY he is saying no before making any decision. You're assuming it's a tantrum, I agree that wouldn't be a great reason. However, it could be many things. Some people don't engage in s&m because psychologically or physically they cannot. And no, I do not believe anyone should ever FORCE a whipping............suggesting that is really really missing the point in my opinion.

I don't really get the whole reverance thing that people place on contracts here, but that's another story.

< Message edited by laurell3 -- 6/11/2010 4:54:30 PM >

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Post #: 2

RE: Refusing slave... - 6/11/2010 4:48:40 PM

TheRaptorJesus

Posts: 640
Joined: 6/3/2010
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Lol.... Contracts.

Lol... 13th amendment.

Lol... Cheeseburgers.

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Post #: 3

RE: Refusing slave... - 6/11/2010 4:53:01 PM

DaddysInkedSlut

Posts: 1837
Joined: 5/14/2010
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These contracts are supposed to be negotiated communications between an owner and slave or dom/me and submissive. My former owner and I had a contracted, we often revamped it and changed it to suite US as we changed and grew. Eventually we both decided to do away with it all together. Personally I don't put much weight into the contracts and the reality is they can be broken by either side with out a word. Granted their may be consequences such as the end of the realtionship but just b/c you sign a m/s or d/s contract nothing but YOU hold you to it.

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Post #: 4

RE: Refusing slave... - 6/11/2010 4:53:31 PM

sodsta

Posts: 246
Joined: 7/19/2006
From: London, England
Status: offline

Well said, RaptorJesus.

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Post #: 5

RE: Refusing slave... - 6/11/2010 4:53:33 PM

TheSubMale

Posts: 6
Joined: 6/10/2010
Status: offline

Let's say there's no reason at all for why he doesn't want to get punished?

Would you move on to another punishment? Or there's just no punishment? I'm just wondering, because I'm sure alot of couples go through this type of problems every once, and a while.

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Post #: 6

RE: Refusing slave... - 6/11/2010 4:56:43 PM

DaddysInkedSlut

Posts: 1837
Joined: 5/14/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheSubMale

Let's say there's no reason at all for why he doesn't want to get punished?

There would be a reason even if it is only that he didn't agree with the fact that he is being punished.

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Post #: 7

RE: Refusing slave... - 6/11/2010 4:59:12 PM

laurell3

Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheSubMale

Let's say there's no reason at all for why he doesn't want to get punished?

Would you move on to another punishment? Or there's just no punishment? I'm just wondering, because I'm sure alot of couples go through this type of problems every once, and a while.

How could there possibly be no reason at all? If that was his response, I would think he was brain damaged. And no, if someone says that's it, I'm done, don't hit me, you don't FORCE it. A nonphysical punishment? Maybe. However, that ignores the fact that there is a reason that he should be communicating. You can't avoid these situations without it.

_____________________________

I cannot be defined by moments in my life, but must be considered for by the entirety of my existence.

When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

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Post #: 8

RE: Refusing slave... - 6/11/2010 5:05:47 PM

Rule

Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
Status: offline

Violence and punishments often are the refuge of the incompetent.

A slave obeys. If the slave does not obey, then something is seriously amiss and most likely the master is at fault.

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Post #: 9

RE: Refusing slave... - 6/11/2010 5:09:44 PM

GraciousLady

Posts: 529
Joined: 7/7/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheSubMale

http://www.collarchat.com/m_3251807/tm.htm (Mistress Unfair or No)

Before i begin, yes I know the mistress was outwitting the slave, but my question is detailed in what I'm asking.

Ok i was browsing, and I've read a thread which kind of got me a little concerned. Everyone was saying the slave has a right to not accept a punishment (Which was a spanking with the belt) if he really doesn't want to, we'll my question is this...If a slave has signed him/her self away completely to there mistress in a contract stating they have "No safewords, Their body, mind, and soul belongs completely to the mistress, and that they will accept any punishment given from the mistress with out arguing"..shouldn't the mistress be able to do what ever she has to do to make sure the slave is punished?

What would you mistresses do with a slave who refuses to accept his whipping?

I believe the mistress has a right to argue with them, or try & force the whipping due to them being in a slave/mistress relationship..It just honestly ruins everything, if the slave says no after he already signed away his rights. We'll i was just wondering, I'm not in that type of relationship yet, and I don't plan on getting in the situation. But i think a good mistress should not accept any of the slaves tantrums, and still dish out the punishment without sending him home.

You seem to forget the submissive's role is voluntary and any contracts are only good if people wish to honor it. If a person ( sub or not) says no for whatever, or even no reason, then it should be no. If the Dominant isn't happy with that then they can end the relationship. If a submissive says no and the Dominant continues that is abuse and assault. We can nit pick this till hell freezes over but no is no. If the persons involved are unhappy with the out come they can talk it over, split up or continue in their unhappy and miserable relationship.

(in reply to TheSubMale)

Post #: 10

RE: Refusing slave... - 6/11/2010 5:16:25 PM

DarkSteven

Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline

If this was a fully consensual M/s relationship, I would agree with you. But I got the feeling that the slave did not know what he was getting into when he signed the contract. He made it clear that it was not simply that specific punishment that he objected to, it was that the dynamic contained any punishment at all.

I did not suggest that he get out of the punishment, but to renegotiate the entire relationship dynamic.

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Post #: 11

RE: Refusing slave... - 6/11/2010 5:17:28 PM

BitaTruble

Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheSubMale
But i think a good mistress should not accept any of the slaves tantrums, and still dish out the punishment without sending him home.

Maybe the Mistress doesn't want to do 3 - 5 for assault. I'm my world, no = bye. That's so easy for me to remember even with my menopause lapses.

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Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."

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Post #: 12

RE: Refusing slave... - 6/11/2010 5:26:24 PM

GraciousLady

Posts: 529
Joined: 7/7/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

If this was a fully consensual M/s relationship, I would agree with you. But I got the feeling that the slave did not know what he was getting into when he signed the contract. He made it clear that it was not simply that specific punishment that he objected to, it was that the dynamic contained any punishment at all.

I did not suggest that he get out of the punishment, but to renegotiate the entire relationship dynamic.

I think a lot of the problems with the couple who spawned this thread is their age. Both are pretty young and likely lack life expierence. It's a huge mess IMO and at ages 18 and 20 they should just go home to their respective parents (if they can) and grow up a bit more.

(in reply to DarkSteven)

Post #: 13

RE: Refusing slave... - 6/11/2010 5:32:13 PM

laurell3

Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline

That's a bit harsh. It's fairly common now that younger adults are experimenting with bdsm. They aren't any different than the middle-aged that come here with ideas purely based on fantasy because they are new.

_____________________________

I cannot be defined by moments in my life, but must be considered for by the entirety of my existence.

When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

(in reply to GraciousLady)

Post #: 14

RE: Refusing slave... - 6/11/2010 5:35:03 PM

sweetsub1957

Posts: 2201
Joined: 4/28/2009
Status: offline

~Fast Reply~
i posted on that thread, and i got the impression that he was just agreeing to the contract to make her happy w/o really discussing/understanding how it was going to come down. So i did not say he had a right to refuse punishment....i did ask some questions & say He should discuss things with her if she's willing and, if she's not willing, then he has a decision to make.....that he should try communication first and, if that didn't work, then move on to more drastic measures.

quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetsub1957
When you signed the contract, did that contract include your list of hard limits? If you wanted/needed one & she didn't allow you a safeword, why did you sign the contract? Did you know ahead of time that she was sadistic? Were you really wanting to be a slave, or did you just do it to make her happy? Did you actually read the contract before signing? Since you did sign the contract, you did give her the say so. But, since real slavery is illegal, i suppose you could just walk away. But, if she is willing, why not discuss things with her? i suppose when you say "SHOULDNT that be how it ends since I said no?" you could do that, but then you're running the show rather than being a slave.You're both still very young and have a lot to experience and learn still (NOT meant to be an insult or a stab), so just talk with her and see what happens. If she's not willing to talk, then you have a decision to make.....

~sweetsub~

~sweetsub~

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Post #: 15

RE: Refusing slave... - 6/11/2010 5:45:57 PM

TheSubMale

Posts: 6
Joined: 6/10/2010
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Lol i feel like this was a dumb question. But ok thanks, i was just curious...I guess I just over-looked the relationship.

and I meant from simply not wanting the punishment out of not liking the pain.

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Post #: 16

RE: Refusing slave... - 6/11/2010 5:57:33 PM

Lockit

Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
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I'd have nothing to do with the whole mess. Exit, start over.

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Post #: 17

RE: Refusing slave... - 6/11/2010 6:30:37 PM

laurell3

Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheSubMale

Lol i feel like this was a dumb question. But ok thanks, i was just curious...I guess I just over-looked the relationship.

and I meant from simply not wanting the punishment out of not liking the pain.

I don't think it's a dumb question. We tend to take for granted that we aren't new anymore. What you are asking is based on fantasy. And to some extent you can have that type of fantasy play. However, consent can always be withdrawn and I'd be hard pressed to tell you of any situation that I can think of where it's ok to hit someone after they said stop and really meant it. It may end or change the relationship, or more likely prompt a serious conversation.

_____________________________

I cannot be defined by moments in my life, but must be considered for by the entirety of my existence.

When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

(in reply to TheSubMale)

Post #: 18

RE: Refusing slave... - 6/11/2010 8:12:13 PM

DaddysInkedSlut

Posts: 1837
Joined: 5/14/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: GraciousLady

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

If this was a fully consensual M/s relationship, I would agree with you. But I got the feeling that the slave did not know what he was getting into when he signed the contract. He made it clear that it was not simply that specific punishment that he objected to, it was that the dynamic contained any punishment at all.

I did not suggest that he get out of the punishment, but to renegotiate the entire relationship dynamic.

I think a lot of the problems with the couple who spawned this thread is their age. Both are pretty young and likely lack life expierence. It's a huge mess IMO and at ages 18 and 20 they should just go home to their respective parents (if they can) and grow up a bit more.

Wow! That is quite judgmental and really harsh. I know alot of adults who are far older than these two who have made worse mistakes when first entering this lifestyle. Age doesn't mean squat when it comes to life experience we are all new at some point. Hell I was married at 17, so to say these two should go home to their parents is a bit naive on YOUR part. Perhaps you need to go home to your mommy and daddy.

< Message edited by DaddysInkedSlut -- 6/11/2010 8:13:17 PM >

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Post #: 19

RE: Refusing slave... - 6/11/2010 8:23:24 PM

PeonForHer

Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheSubMale

Lol i feel like this was a dumb question. But ok thanks, i was just curious...I guess I just over-looked the relationship.

and I meant from simply not wanting the punishment out of not liking the pain.

TSM, there's no-one in the world who can provide the rules for a D/s relationship. The rules aren't written in the constitution of any country, anywhere. There's nothing in any religious text about them. There are no rules here, on CollarMe, either.

The two partners in a D/s relationship are on their own. They have to carve out their own rules, between them. That's what pioneering is all about.

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