RE: That 16 year old who went sailing...

RE: That 16 year old who went sailing... (Full Version)

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ElizabethAnne -> RE: That 16 year old who went sailing... (6/14/2010 4:13:35 AM)
~fast reply~ Her parents were confidant of her ability because of what they taught her. At what age do we allow our children to become adults to make their own choices? When do we as parents get a pink slip, as our children transition into adulthood. I think we can only determine that for our own children, I hope by 16 children are pretty much prepared for life. If not, a parent has a serious problem on their hands, because in twenty four short months they will be legal adults. Unless you want your adult child living at home ill equipped to become fully functioning adults. Isn't it our job as parents to raise them to be their own person to make their own choices, to be responsible for themselves? Someone commented they wouldn't allow their 16 year old to have sex. Right. Short of being with them 24/7, or a chastity belt, I guarantee you, if a 16 chooses to have sex they will. We have to trust in OUR ability to have taught them how to make the right choices, then we have to trust they will make the right choices. Sounds like she made the right decisions every step of the way. Kudos to her parents for allowing her to experience something that only a very few will ever know. All because of their ability to teach, their ability to trust. When my daughter was 16 or so, and she would leave with the car, I used to say to her, be careful. Then I read by saying, "be careful", it is implying "I don't trust your ability", so I changed my phrase to her to "have fun", and have used it ever since. I may say, safe travels, but I will not issue a warning to her. Of course she is going to be careful, she isn't going to be careless on purpose. My FC's son is preparing to leave for Basic Training in the Air Force the end of the summer, I promise I won't say to him, be careful. Elizabeth

xxblushesxx -> RE: That 16 year old who went sailing... (6/14/2010 5:27:16 AM)
HM tells me to be careful every time I leave. I take it as a caring gesture. (and not just for his car...althought there IS that!)[:-][&:]

sirsholly -> RE: That 16 year old who went sailing... (6/14/2010 5:58:23 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Firebirdseeking Well, at least I know I am not the only one who had a strong reaction to this. However, just as dominants half my age or more have tried to convince me that "age is just a number", I would also have to disagree with that hypothesis. Age is experience, being seasoned, having multiple life experiences, etc. 16 is not just a number. well said!

ElizabethAnne -> RE: That 16 year old who went sailing... (6/14/2010 6:03:16 AM)
quote: Well, at least I know I am not the only one who had a strong reaction to this. However, just as dominants half my age or more have tried to convince me that "age is just a number", I would also have to disagree with that hypothesis. Age is experience, being seasoned, having multiple life experiences, etc. 16 is not just a number How do they get life experiences ...if they are too fearful to experience life?

sirsholly -> RE: That 16 year old who went sailing... (6/14/2010 6:05:42 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania This girl might be fearless of the ocean, seeing she was raised on one, but she might not be so fearless in other circumstances. Regardless of how much time she has spent in the ocean, if she claimed to be "fearless" of the ocean, she shouldn't have been allowed to go. Even the most experience sailors are not "fearless" of the ocean. They know how to respect it. Big difference. Someone who claims to be fearless of the ocean is a fool. I have a little boy who sits a saddle better than many adult riders. The day I hear him say he is fearless of a horse is the day his riding days are done. That cocky attitude would get him into a seriously dangerous situation, causing harm to either him or the animal. Was it a cocky attitude that caused the "fearless" 16 yr old to sail into a storm area? Possibly. But what is the excuse of the parents for permitting it?

sirsholly -> RE: That 16 year old who went sailing... (6/14/2010 6:13:37 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ElizabethAnne quote: Well, at least I know I am not the only one who had a strong reaction to this. However, just as dominants half my age or more have tried to convince me that "age is just a number", I would also have to disagree with that hypothesis. Age is experience, being seasoned, having multiple life experiences, etc. 16 is not just a number How do they get life experiences ...if they are too fearful to experience life? they approach a situation with caution and a healthy dose of common sense.

ElizabethAnne -> RE: That 16 year old who went sailing... (6/14/2010 6:16:09 AM)
Holly, So if he makes a careless remark, you are going to forbid him to do something he enjoys? Or would you instead TEACH him differently? Which is better for the child? Turn him into a fearful person, that is afraid to do things because he may get hurt? Or, a sensible person that while understands the risks, and is willing to experience new things. I am very sure Abby KNEW the risks, her parents KNEW the risks, yet allowed her to try to achieve a dream. Elizabeth

sirsholly -> RE: That 16 year old who went sailing... (6/14/2010 7:23:26 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ElizabethAnne Holly, So if he makes a careless remark, you are going to forbid him to do something he enjoys? Or would you instead TEACH him differently? Which is better for the child? Turn him into a fearful person, that is afraid to do things because he may get hurt? Or, a sensible person that while understands the risks, and is willing to experience new things. I am very sure Abby KNEW the risks, her parents KNEW the risks, yet allowed her to try to achieve a dream. Elizabeth First...he can say he is fearless (and geez we all know kids will talk the talk) but what i should have addressed was the meaning behind the words. If his attitude was in fact one of fearlessness, you bet he would not be riding for a long time. Fearlessness on a mount is dangerous to both himself and the animal, and he would be demonstrating respect for neither. If he was fearless for his safety on an animal that could seriously injure him, or careless with the welfare of the animal, his saddle would be hung up for awhile and changes would be made. On the flip-side...if he were fearful of riding, he has no business being on a horse, and it would be poor parenting on my part to permit it. I do not want fear/fearlessness. I want caution. One really silly example that comes to mind is winter driving. I always get stuck behind a driver that i just know is scared to death to be out on snow covered roads. They are more dangerous to other drivers than the actual snow/ice. If there is fear, get the hell off of the road until something is done to alleviate that fear (a driving course, chains or studded tires, etc.). Then you have the bozo that is fearless...this is the boob that thinks fishtailing is a hoot and does not give a damn that he could fishtail in to a family of four and cause a tragedy. His ass needs to be parked next to the fearful one and neither should drive until spring. The middle of the two extremes is caution. Rather than seeing the opposite of fearlessness as fearfulness, try to view it as cautionary. I do not advocate fear, as that will prevent perusing and achieving goals, and most goals are achieved by taking risks. But i also do not advocate fearlessness, as that is right up there with stupidity in many situations.

domiguy -> RE: That 16 year old who went sailing... (6/14/2010 7:44:02 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sirsholly quote: ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania This girl might be fearless of the ocean, seeing she was raised on one, but she might not be so fearless in other circumstances. Regardless of how much time she has spent in the ocean, if she claimed to be "fearless" of the ocean, she shouldn't have been allowed to go. Even the most experience sailors are not "fearless" of the ocean. They know how to respect it. Big difference. Someone who claims to be fearless of the ocean is a fool. I have a little boy who sits a saddle better than many adult riders. The day I hear him say he is fearless of a horse is the day his riding days are done. That cocky attitude would get him into a seriously dangerous situation, causing harm to either him or the animal. Was it a cocky attitude that caused the "fearless" 16 yr old to sail into a storm area? Possibly. But what is the excuse of the parents for permitting it? Re read her post...She miss spoke or typed or whatever. The gal in question never used the word "fearless." You are just being kind of cunty. Just like when your uber Dom wanted to rush out and buy a Hummer because he got into an accident. That would have worked out well. One of the worst cars ever manufactured and now are out of business.You are incapable of utilizing calm, common and rational sense you are all about the "knee jerk reaction." Some people cannot remember what it was like to be young or how to avoid placing their own fears and hesitations into their children. I am sure you remind your children daily that failure is imminent to try only leads to injury or death and it is only an exercise in complete futility. Don't forget that the boogeyman awaits around every corner. Way to go!!!

ElizabethAnne -> RE: That 16 year old who went sailing... (6/14/2010 8:23:18 AM)
Holly, You are talking both sides here. First you say you wouldn't allow it, then by using your example of the driver in the snow, you say..until it can be corrected. That's exactly what I am promoting. If someone is fearful, help them overcome their fear, if they believe they are fearless, teach them a healthy respect for "x". Isn't that part of our jobs as parents to teach? Elizabeth ps - Domiguy, thank you for clarifying the girl in question did NOT say that.

sirsholly -> RE: That 16 year old who went sailing... (6/14/2010 8:23:35 AM)
quote: Some people cannot remember what it was like to be young or how to avoid placing their own fears and hesitations into their children. Fears? No. Hesitations? Sure i do, and GO ME!!! It is the job of us parents to share our life experiences in age appropriate ways with our kids. It is called TEACHING. For example, i know what can happen when you are careless in the saddle, so that is passed on to him to prevent him from being thrown off, as good ol mom was. Hopefully i convey that when a situation involves risk, it should also involve caution. And btw...you keep bringing up the Hummer. For your information, wise-ass, Hubby was looking at the safest vehicles for his wife and son, and personally i applaud him for that. He was shaken because of a very bad accident that caused the roof of the car to collapse and crush the car seat. Any parent who sees something like that will never get over it. I can't help but wonder why our choice of vehicle bothers you so much.

juliaoceania -> RE: That 16 year old who went sailing... (6/14/2010 8:26:35 AM)
quote: I can't help but wonder why our choice of vehicle bothers you so much Look at the Gulf.... see the birds in all their oil soaked glory? That's why it bothers me... But then again I am a hippie freak that rides the train and takes the bus 99% of the time, which is probably safer than the Hummer....

sirsholly -> RE: That 16 year old who went sailing... (6/14/2010 8:28:03 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ElizabethAnne Holly, You are talking both sides here. First you say you wouldn't allow it, then by using your example of the driver in the snow, you say..until it can be corrected. That's exactly what I am promoting. If someone is fearful, help them overcome their fear, if they believe they are fearless, teach them a healthy respect for "x". Isn't that part of our jobs as parents to teach? Would i allow it with that attitude? No.

sirsholly -> RE: That 16 year old who went sailing... (6/14/2010 8:31:27 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania quote: I can't help but wonder why our choice of vehicle bothers you so much Look at the Gulf.... see the birds in all their oil soaked glory? That's why it bothers me... But then again I am a hippie freak that rides the train and takes the bus 99% of the time, which is probably safer than the Hummer.... Damn...now YOU are concerned with what we drive too? I really must be special! [:)]

juliaoceania -> RE: That 16 year old who went sailing... (6/14/2010 8:37:55 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sirsholly quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania quote: I can't help but wonder why our choice of vehicle bothers you so much Look at the Gulf.... see the birds in all their oil soaked glory? That's why it bothers me... But then again I am a hippie freak that rides the train and takes the bus 99% of the time, which is probably safer than the Hummer.... Damn...now YOU are concerned with what we drive too? I really must be special! [:)] Actually, no, I just think "asshole" every time I see one of those cars.... it is the glorification of the rape of our planet... We all live in a world powered by fossils, so on one level we are all tied to what happened in the Gulf. But hopefully people will step back and reexamine their choices and realize that we have a collective responsibility for it... that means trading in the Hummer for a more gas efficient model... Or you can always keep on truckin and give no nevermind for the planet you are leaving your wee ones , that is always an option for you! Hopefully they won't get respiratory ailments from the particulate matter that Hummer is spewing forth..... And I do not think my opinion should matter, nor anyone else's, but there are a lot of people that look at those sorts of cars that are cluttering the freeways that think the same thing I am... There is a time and a place for those sorts of vehicles, and taking Jenny Sue to the dentist shouldn't be one of them

sirsholly -> RE: That 16 year old who went sailing... (6/14/2010 8:51:02 AM)
quote: And I do not think my opinion should matter cool [:)]

ElizabethAnne -> RE: That 16 year old who went sailing... (6/14/2010 9:24:22 AM)
Hello, quote: Would i allow it with that attitude? No. How does just saying no teach anything? Why wouldn't it be better to TEACH a child differently? I do know one thing, that which is forbade..often times becomes the "forbidden fruit" which will look all that more enticing. Elizabeth

sirsholly -> RE: That 16 year old who went sailing... (6/14/2010 11:51:23 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ElizabethAnne Hello, quote: Would i allow it with that attitude? No. How does just saying no teach anything? Why wouldn't it be better to TEACH a child differently? I do know one thing, that which is forbade..often times becomes the "forbidden fruit" which will look all that more enticing. Elizabeth Did i say there would be no attempt to change the attitude? No, I did not. But in the interim, it would be very stupid to allow a kid to do the very thing he has demonstrated he is not capable of doing safely. Allowing him to do it anyway because "forbidden fruit" is too enticing is lazy parenting. If i forbid the fruit, i will bust my ass to ensure the kid doesn't bite the apple.

ElizabethAnne -> RE: That 16 year old who went sailing... (6/14/2010 12:09:38 PM)
Holly, That may work when he's small, it's easy to control a 4 year old and forbid certain things. Not so easy as they get older unless a parent plans on spending 24/7 with them, the whole concept of parenting is to TEACH them to make the right choices when the parent is NOT there, so as they make that transition into adulthood they are ready to be on their own. Lazy parenting is in not teaching, lazy parenting has nothing to do with forbidden fruit. Elizabeth

sirsholly -> RE: That 16 year old who went sailing... (6/14/2010 12:30:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ElizabethAnne Holly, That may work when he's small, it's easy to control a 4 year old and forbid certain things. Not so easy as they get older unless a parent plans on spending 24/7 with them, the whole concept of parenting is to TEACH them to make the right choices when the parent is NOT there, so as they make that transition into adulthood they are ready to be on their own. Lazy parenting is in not teaching, lazy parenting has nothing to do with forbidden fruit. Elizabeth Yeah...thus far i am dealing with an almost-four yr old, and agree there is a whole different set of rules as they get older. My time is coming (Lord help me!) but for now i would say it depends on the circumstances. A poster on these forums had my total respect when she grounded her pre-teen son, then canceled her plans for the weekend to stay home with him. She DID teach him that his behavior had consequences and she was willing to follow through with enforcing the rules. This is what i meant by lazy parenting...she demonstrated she was not lazy in any way. Personally...i am not so sure i would have done it her way, but instead taken a way that was easier on me (and that would be lazy on my part).

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