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Setting headspace, trying new things, and needleplay qu... - 6/13/2010 10:24:31 AM   
Andalusite


Posts: 2492
Joined: 1/25/2009
Status: offline 		So, I've been thinking off and on about introducing verbal humiliation into my play, within the context of roleplay. I'd been concerned about the wrong word possibly pushing buttons I wasn't aware of, and it just wouldn't really feel natural to me to call someone a slut or a cunt for no reason. In discussing what I liked and didn't like about the idea on one of the "forced femme" threads, I came up with the idea of a catfight over a boyfriend, with a bit of age play thrown in. So, last night, my femsub playpartner and I both dressed in plaid schoolgirl skirts with white tops, I put my hair up in cute little ponytails on the sides. She was sitting in the social area (light play is encouraged there), talking with someone, and I came up, called her a bitch and set up the basic scenario, and we waded right into it. She started out really giggly, and had a little trouble coming up with responses at first. I hauled her off to the other room by her hair, where I had set up a safe spot for wrestling and tussling around. Some hairpulling and face slapping stopped the giggles, but then she was more in "yummy glowy" headspace, so coming up with responses to my calling her a slut and a cunt, and stuff was a bit tough for her. We'd discussed the scene a couple of weeks ago, to make sure that there weren't any hot button words that would be a problem, and set it up so she could play along, but in the moment, I guess she had a little trouble getting into the headspace I had in mind. We both still had fun, but I was curious if people have any suggestions for setting the mood more effectively?

After I pinned her down, sat on her, and smacked her around a bit, and made her apologise, we took a short water break. Then, I sang jumprope songs while florentine flogging her, since the motion reminds me of double-dutch jump rope. I hadn't tried any formal/overt age play before, and that part was a lot of fun. It was a little interesting going from more of a "bitchy teen" mood to evoking more of a grade-school playfulness. Most of the age play resources I've seen have been focused more on an adult with a child, but having both of us playing schoolgirls felt more interesting to me. I'm trying to come up with other ways to incorporate it directly into play, rather than stuff like coloring, so I'd appreciate suggestions from other people. It's not that I'm uncreative, but this is a new area for me to explore, and it's nice to hear about what has worked for other people.

We did a lot of other things in between, and wrapped up with needleplay and double-caning while the needles were in. I made a little sunset design on one of her breasts and some buttons on the other. I'm still pretty new to needleplay, but some of the designs I've seen are intriguing. Do you (or your partner) usually go free-form, or put dots in non-toxic ink to show where to put each one in? It's hard getting the spacing and angling to come out even when I was just eye-balling it.

< Message edited by Andalusite -- 6/13/2010 10:29:23 AM >
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RE: Setting headspace, trying new things, and needlepla... - 6/13/2010 1:41:46 PM   
allthatjaz


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Andalusite


We did a lot of other things in between, and wrapped up with needleplay and double-caning while the needles were in. I made a little sunset design on one of her breasts and some buttons on the other. I'm still pretty new to needleplay, but some of the designs I've seen are intriguing. Do you (or your partner) usually go free-form, or put dots in non-toxic ink to show where to put each one in? It's hard getting the spacing and angling to come out even when I was just eye-balling it.


We often go free form because needle-play for us is feeling the journey of the one being pierced. Its like an artist starting with a blank canvas. Theres a kind of organic feel to the process. When you start, you don't know where your going to end up but you follow the journey creating random and abstract patterns.
If we are doing it for performance or workshop purposes, we might use an iodine pen for putting in some key points of the design so that we can keep the symmetry.
If you are finding it difficult then practice on a large piece of card and lay seamstress pins to form the patterns.
If you want any more information on needle-play, I am quite happy to chat to you by mail.

Regards

Maria


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RE: Setting headspace, trying new things, and needlepla... - 6/13/2010 4:47:23 PM   
IronBear


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From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline 		G'day Andalusite lass (note I used Lass and not lad this time. Apologies for my former error which was unforgivable). I prefer in the main, to use pre-designed markers and do actually do as Maria suggested, work it out on paper and pins for spacing. Hut then I try to work on some of the Celtic designs I also use for engraving crystal goblets. Other times when I want to go free form, I tend to stay with tribal body art which will just flow with the body contours of the person and with these I like to have coloured feathers hot glued into the plastic (syringe) end of the needles. I have used occasionally, coloured way around the surrounds but not too close to the needle work to give a greater effect.

I'd take up maria's offer though she is one awesome lady.


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RE: Setting headspace, trying new things, and needlepla... - 6/13/2010 8:35:02 PM   
Andalusite


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Status: offline 		Maria, I hadn't heard of an iodine pen, so I'll have to look around and see if they're available in the U.S. I'm a bit artistic, but usually need a picture or something to work from to get the proportions just right. I was hoping to come up with some simple but elegant design ideas, perhaps playing with needles from different manufacturers, so that I can use the same gauge in different colors. I sent you a note through the other side.

IB, no offense taken on the original mix-up, but I'm glad you remembered. I've seen feathers used the way you describe, or fishing line strung with beads, and of course, ribbon corsets. Tribal or celtic designs would probably be a good idea, and easy to find templates for.

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RE: Setting headspace, trying new things, and needlepla... - 6/14/2010 2:51:45 AM   
allthatjaz


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Status: offline 		Another one that looks nice is silk roses and silk leaves. They fit perfectly into the hub of the needles. I created a beautiful rose vine climbing up and around a girl once. It was expensive mind you!

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RE: Setting headspace, trying new things, and needlepla... - 6/14/2010 5:38:06 AM   
LadyPact


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Status: offline 		The pens absolutely are available in the US.  Check your local medical supply store.  

Personally, I like free-hand.  I like taking whatever is in My mind straight to the skin in the moment.  I think that is just more My personal style.  I'm not that much of a pre-planner when it comes to most of this stuff.  Then again, you have to remember that I'm one of those folks who doesn't get bent out of joint if all of My knots aren't perfectly symmetrical if I actually use rope and the only scripts I ever use for scenes is if it's some kind of public demo. 

Your spacing is going to come along the more you practice.  It's like anything else that you set out to do.  You can always get yourself some peaches and some straight pins and go to town.  It will keep your costs low and allow you to practice your small 'visions' of art.  Then, when it's time to play with a person, you have your technique without losing the spiritual connection that playing with needles can be.


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RE: Setting headspace, trying new things, and needlepla... - 6/14/2010 7:03:18 AM   
allthatjaz


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

I'm one of those folks who doesn't get bent out of joint if all of My knots aren't perfectly symmetrical if I actually use rope and the only scripts I ever use for scenes is if it's some kind of public demo. 



You rock sister Too many people have forgotten how to work organically. I recently watched some amazing bondage that made my head spin. This was off the cuff stuff that had so much energy and life that it was mesmerizing. The rope experts all stood around commenting on how she hadn't tied certain knots off properly and how the symmetry was all wrong. These guys have become engineers of perfection and wouldn't know how to turn rope into a sensual act if they tried. I agree with you, go with the flow, feel the movement of the flesh, the power of the body and put your own very unique touch to what your doing.

quote:


Your spacing is going to come along the more you practice.  It's like anything else that you set out to do.  You can always get yourself some peaches and some straight pins and go to town.  It will keep your costs low and allow you to practice your small 'visions' of art.  Then, when it's time to play with a person, you have your technique without losing the spiritual connection that playing with needles can be.
[/color]


Spiritual connection is what needle play is all about for me. I absolutely can't just do needles on someone just because they are a willing participant. Neither do I understand people who use needles as a dominant game (though each to their own) because I, the piercer, am nothing other than the gate keeper of a beautiful world beyond. I guide them in and I bring them back out!


One of these days I really do hope to meet up with you.

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RE: Setting headspace, trying new things, and needlepla... - 6/14/2010 7:25:12 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		Maria, I happen to think that we would have a lot of fun.  

In all of this talk of making the perfect picture, the prettiest display and so forth, I have concern that the connection is lost.  When I pierce someone, it isn't about all of that.  Through that needle, I am an extension of Myself.  I am entering the flesh.  I am inside of that person.  My energy is flowing through them as sure as that piece of metal is penetrating their skin.

I'd rather have that than a thousand pretty pictures.


_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

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RE: Setting headspace, trying new things, and needlepla... - 6/14/2010 8:26:46 AM   
Andalusite


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Status: offline 		Hmm, I very rarely use any kind of script or plan ahead of time, but I wasn't certain whether a particular word would set her off, so I did check in with her about that. Even so, it was fairly loosely planned, just the basic idea for part of the scene. For piercings, while I enjoy doing them even if they are random, I think I will like the effect better if I can be more artistic about it, which does take some planning since I'm still fairly new, and not the most talented artist. In most other aspects of play, things can just flow, and I enjoy the interaction. Since needles, fireplay, and a few other things are still new to me, I need to focus much more on technique and safety, rather than the emotional connection while I'm doing them. Once I don't have to think through each step, I'll be able to get into it more, but safety is more important at this stage, IMHO. I take my responsibility very seriously.

She and I have been playing together for a few months now, and have known each other for a few years. We're friends, and we go out walking, for coffee, out to museums, and stuff like that together, and I care about her a great deal. We have great connection and energy when we play, but I don't consider us to be romantically or sexually involved. She's very responsive, and she's game to explore new things with me . I do so carefully, and with help from someone who is experienced, if it is something I haven't done recently.

BDSM generally does not connect to my spirituality at all. I'm a Christian. I don't feel there's anything against it, since Jesus made a whip once, but it just doesn't tie in to prayer or my concept of the sacred and divine. I do feel some energy flow with other people (not just during BDSM), but it is more tied to emotions than to anything I would consider spiritual. "Being inside" her seems to imply something sexual or spiritual, rather than empathic.

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RE: Setting headspace, trying new things, and needlepla... - 6/14/2010 8:33:14 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


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Status: offline 		I've actually never seen diagramming.  Even when it was a specific design they were going for, it was always done freehand.

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RE: Setting headspace, trying new things, and needlepla... - 6/14/2010 10:38:27 AM   
allthatjaz


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Status: offline 		Andalusite, your doing all the right things. You have a head full of knowledge about safety and getting things right and all you need now is practice. There is absolutely nothing wrong with marking out the skin and you may want to do this until you become more practiced.

Spiritual for me is not at all religious. The American Indians hang themselves on flesh hooks, the Incas would pierce their skin with small shrouds of bone. They did this to induce, what they called 'passing over into other worlds'. I have a scientific head. I believe its all about endorphins. Its a trip without illegal substance, its psychedelic, energizing, bonding and its amazing to feel or watch (knowing how it feels). What it can create is a very deep feeling of intimacy with the two people involved.

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RE: Setting headspace, trying new things, and needlepla... - 6/14/2010 10:46:27 AM   
allthatjaz


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

I've actually never seen diagramming.  Even when it was a specific design they were going for, it was always done freehand.


Occasionally we will diagram but as I said before, its usually for a performance. I did one with another piercer where the pierced female was standing up and so we had to work quickly. We took needles from the top of her arms to her ankles. We worked from either side and so it was necessary to get the needles in the right places uniformly. We then corseted her arms behind her back and corseted the front of her body down to her ankles so that she was completely corset bondaged.

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RE: Setting headspace, trying new things, and needlepla... - 6/14/2010 10:52:21 AM   
LadySilver0523


Posts: 99
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Status: offline 		Hmmm... Interesting... I've never thought of needle play this way. I didn't think of it as an art form.... EVER... I've always been deathly afraid of needles and having my blood drawn ect. And, go figure, the first time I ever saw, "needle play" it was extream and bloody and messy and just... GROSS! But when I hear you all talk about it as an art form and a personal way to "connect" spiritually or otherwise with your partner... Well, that's just HOT... Hmm... I'll have to bring this up to my significant other and see what he says. I hope that over time it will be something he may try with me as I do have an overwhelming desire for several rather large and detailed pieces. And I know you may be thinking to yourself, "how could she be afraid of needles but want tattoos?" Well, when you've had a vein broken and huge bruises for several weeks at a time from nurses that didn't know what the heck they were doing, that's why. LOL But as for the constant pricking of a tattoo needle, well, that's a bit different in my opinion.
 
Can't wait to talk to Master about this. :D Thanks E/everyone!!
 
*waves*
 
Silver

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RE: Setting headspace, trying new things, and needlepla... - 6/14/2010 11:13:53 AM   
bunnysubbie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: allthatjaz


quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

I've actually never seen diagramming.  Even when it was a specific design they were going for, it was always done freehand.


Occasionally we will diagram but as I said before, its usually for a performance. I did one with another piercer where the pierced female was standing up and so we had to work quickly. We took needles from the top of her arms to her ankles. We worked from either side and so it was necessary to get the needles in the right places uniformly. We then corseted her arms behind her back and corseted the front of her body down to her ankles so that she was completely corset bondaged.


That's the most amazing thing I've ever heard of. Just... wow that's so cool. Did you use ribbon to corset her?

(I'm a newbie to needle-play)


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RE: Setting headspace, trying new things, and needlepla... - 6/14/2010 12:17:36 PM   
CallaFirestormBW


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quote:

ORIGINAL: allthatjaz


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

Your spacing is going to come along the more you practice.  It's like anything else that you set out to do.  You can always get yourself some peaches and some straight pins and go to town.  It will keep your costs low and allow you to practice your small 'visions' of art.  Then, when it's time to play with a person, you have your technique without losing the spiritual connection that playing with needles can be.
[/color]


Spiritual connection is what needle play is all about for me. I absolutely can't just do needles on someone just because they are a willing participant. Neither do I understand people who use needles as a dominant game (though each to their own) because I, the piercer, am nothing other than the gate keeper of a beautiful world beyond. I guide them in and I bring them back out!



I quoted both of these because this is pretty much the essence of my own experiences as well, both in doing needle/cutting work and having it done on me. The thing is, I'm in the camp that plans. I'm a Virgo, and I have to have a plan going in... however, I am also very fluid, so having a plan is enough for me--if the plan goes to crap in the first couple of minutes... Oh well... just go with the flow.

For me, the planning is part of the spiritual process... it is part of the integration of mind, body, and spirit -- so I do try to have a road-map to start out with, and then, when the needle or blade parts the flesh, everything re-balances around the outpouring of energy released from the process... so if things shift, then they needed to shift... if they stay with the map, then it's all good too. Hope this makes sense.

Oh... and most tattoo suppliers have 'surgical markers' for marking piercings, cuttings, and tattoos.

Calla

< Message edited by CallaFirestormBW -- 6/14/2010 12:19:03 PM >

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RE: Setting headspace, trying new things, and needlepla... - 6/14/2010 5:24:26 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		It makes perfect sense to Me, even though I'm a Libra.  

I don't want to get mixed in the spirituality vrs religion discussion.  I don't see those as the same thing at all.

When I'm talking about the spiritual, I'm really thinking about the connection that exists between top and bottom.  For Me, there's an energy that flows.  I'm hideous at explaining it, but I call it spiritual because through that piece of metal, I'm no longer completely inside of Myself.  By that extension, I am also inside of someone else.  I didn't physically touch the flesh under their skin, but I'm inside there just the same.  I lack the eloquence to convey what it feels like to Me.


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RE: Setting headspace, trying new things, and needlepla... - 6/14/2010 6:10:28 PM   
Andalusite


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadySilver0523
I've never thought of needle play this way. I didn't think of it as an art form.... EVER... I've always been deathly afraid of needles and having my blood drawn ect. And, go figure, the first time I ever saw, "needle play" it was extream and bloody and messy and just... GROSS! But when I hear you all talk about it as an art form and a personal way to "connect" spiritually or otherwise with your partner... Well, that's just HOT...

Hi, LadySilver,
I actually had a bad first experience with bottoming to needles, due to circulation issues and not having any warm-up first. I didn't try it again until a few months ago, with my then-Master and my playpartner (same one as I mentioned in the OP). You can read about it here if you like: http://www.collarchat.com/m_2852355/mpage_1/key_needle/tm.htm#2852355 Everyone reacts differently, but for her, the caning and needles this time hurt less than my toying with the clothespins I attached to her. I've had wonderful experiences with several things that sounded scary at first, and I'm glad I kept an open mind.

Calla and LP, for me, spirituality is my connection with God (not going to church, or formal rituals, but just those quiet moments in nature or when I pray). I don't have any problem with people using the term in other ways, I just have a little difficulty relating to it. I have done some energy work somewhat similar to Reiki during massage and BDSM, and in a very different way during martial arts, but it doesn't register as spiritual for me. It's probably just a matter of semantics. Right now, I don't feel I can be "in the moment" enough to do that. I need to focus on things like making sure the hole in the needle points down (I was taught it can be inserted either way, but causes more pain and increases the likelihood of bleeding the other way), making sure I get the right amount of skin and don't go too deep or too shallow, focusing on her reactions (she usually holds still, but has occasionally flinched slightly), and so on. I just don't have the "brain space" left for much more, the way I do when I flog her or cane her or do a lot of other things that aren't as risky or as new to me. I feel that trying to be more in the moment the way the two of you describe would diminish my focus on safety and technique. Once I have more experience with the needles, I'll be able to focus more on the connection the way I can when we play in other ways.

< Message edited by Andalusite -- 6/14/2010 6:15:24 PM >

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RE: Setting headspace, trying new things, and needlepla... - 6/14/2010 6:17:14 PM   
LadyPact


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Andalusite
Calla and LP, for me, spirituality is my connection with God (not going to church, or formal rituals, but just those quiet moments in nature or when I pray). I don't have any problem with people using the term in other ways, I just have a little difficulty relating to it. I have done some energy work somewhat similar to Reiki during massage and BDSM, and in a very different way during martial arts, but it doesn't register as spiritual for me.

And, you know..... that's ok.  We don't have to see it the same way.

If My opinion matters, Anda, you're doing the right things.


_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

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RE: Setting headspace, trying new things, and needlepla... - 6/14/2010 6:34:58 PM   
Andalusite


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Status: offline 		Thanks! I wasn't trying to fish for compliments, just explain why I wasn't going for that kind of energy and connection right now. It is important to me, and I'm looking forward to developing enough expertise with the needles that I can focus on the connection and flow more naturally.

It's funny, I'm not much into playing to the crowd for the most part, and I don't consider myself to be very flashy or an expert in most areas. For certain scenes, though, getting a reaction from the spectators, and kind of drawing them in, is a big part of the scene. The schoolgirl part of this particular scene was one example, and we're still hoping to do that "forced feminization" scene with me wrestling her out of men's clothes into a cocktail gown and heels. She passed on a wonderful compliment from a friend of hers who was at the party. That felt just lovely, especially since I hadn't topped or dominated anyone for 4 years, until a few months ago. I agree that some people come across as very detached, and objectifying their partner while they play (not as a specific part of the scene, but more standing back and focusing on what other people will think). That mindset can be hot for me as a bottom, with the right person, feeling like I am just a canvas for their work, but usually I want more. As a top or dominant, it would be very unsatisfying to me if that was all we had together for an entire scene.

< Message edited by Andalusite -- 6/14/2010 6:35:38 PM >

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RE: Setting headspace, trying new things, and needlepla... - 6/15/2010 11:57:48 AM   
allthatjaz


Posts: 2878
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quote:

ORIGINAL: bunnysubbie


quote:

ORIGINAL: allthatjaz


quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

I've actually never seen diagramming.  Even when it was a specific design they were going for, it was always done freehand.


Occasionally we will diagram but as I said before, its usually for a performance. I did one with another piercer where the pierced female was standing up and so we had to work quickly. We took needles from the top of her arms to her ankles. We worked from either side and so it was necessary to get the needles in the right places uniformly. We then corseted her arms behind her back and corseted the front of her body down to her ankles so that she was completely corset bondaged.


That's the most amazing thing I've ever heard of. Just... wow that's so cool. Did you use ribbon to corset her?

(I'm a newbie to needle-play)



We used a very fine purple ribbon and it did look pretty amazing and she was well and truly tied up!

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