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DesFIP -> RE: To the haters of pitbull haters -- (6/17/2010 5:34:39 AM)

I own a golden retriever, a senior rescue. With people including kids he is absolutely loving. He absolutely hates all other animals. We go in the back door at the vet's so he can not terrorize sick animals. But he doesn't get to wander the neighborhood either.



heartcream -> RE: To the haters of pitbull haters -- (6/17/2010 6:20:12 AM)

Yeah they have super sonoc jaws in that we bred the fuck out of them and now they are fucked up because of humans. I didnt say they had lockjaw. And hanging your dog off a tree is simply wrong, I dont feel otherwise. Mortifying an animal is wrong. No matter what sort of theory is behind it. That dog was mortified and its owner a sick fuck.



peppermint -> RE: To the haters of pitbull haters -- (6/17/2010 6:31:36 AM)

quote:

Bull terriers are neither, they are the "Spuds McKenzie" dogs. 


The dogs she has are NOT the Spuds McKenzie type dogs.  After reading this thread I did a bit of research.  She calls them American Bull Terriers.  My internet sources refer to them as American Pit Bull Terriers.  It seems that at least some dog owners for whatever reason do not call their dogs by the proper name. I wonder why she keeps insisting they are not pit bulls when obviously they are. 



domiguy -> RE: To the haters of pitbull haters -- (6/17/2010 6:45:54 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: WyldHrt

quote:

strap on extender.
Same thing different type of asshole.

Fuck you, Domi. My girl came to me at 9 months old from a rescue, skin and bones even after 2 weeks of proper care. She was still 20lbs underweight for her frame, and had been tossed out on a road in up in the hills, days before the rescue folks were notified to come and get her. I had never considered the breed actually, but she bonded rather instantly with my male rott x when they were introduced, and that was enough for me to take her in and accept the responsibility that comes with ownership. I wasn't looking for her, but she was apparently waiting for us to find her.

As noted above, you are talking out your ass, so just STFU.


Fuck off. you are mistaken the breed is incredibly aggressive especially towards other animals.

Much like yourself, the majority of people are idiots

Very few people have the ability to raise a pit bull and make sure they go through all of the necessary steps to acclimate their dog to people as well as other animals.

How many people are strong enough to hold back a pit bull from tearing up another person's pet.

Most people utilize them as cock extenders because they need the shit breed that is the pit bull, to accentuate their lack of machismo.

But no we should take your word for it. Or maybe we should read up on the breed and understand that they are an aggressive breed that very few people should take on as pets.

Asshat.



VirginPotty -> RE: To the haters of pitbull haters -- (6/17/2010 6:54:31 AM)

I'm very glad that you AND your pup escaped safely, OP.
I know how scary that is. My favorite foster dog was a pit/boxer mix....he was by far my favorite dog in the rescue but he didn't show well at the adoption events & was very hyper. One event in particular he "hyped" his way backward right into a rottweiler who chomped down on my dog's tail & wouldn't let go. The screams haunt me to this day.
I couldn't very well pull my dog w/o furthering his injuries so the handler of the rotty had to try & get the dog to let go which he eventually did but the blood was flowing freely & I had to rush my dog to the vet. He ended up w/a broken tail & stiches[&o]

The rottweiler had to leave the event to calm down but he ended up being adopted at a later date (they bother were adopted separately). Neither dog was fierce, one was hyper & the other didn't like hyper. I'm just glad the rottweiler only bit the tail & didn't try to fight my dog.

**Eta, I did research on dogs & the pit bull actually has a very low rate of attacks. The dalmation was at the top of the list (#1)**



AlwaysLisa -> RE: To the haters of pitbull haters -- (6/17/2010 6:55:39 AM)

Greetings.

30 yrs of involvement with pure bred dogs (competition, showing, breeding, etc)..and I'm still amazed at the stuff that is passed around as common knowledge.

I would face a "pit", before I spent time in a room with a raging spaniel any day of the week.   Whats that you say?  Those sweet, long eared, doe eyed spaniels that melt your heart and at one time roamed the white house corridors?  (Remember Millie?)  When your loving spaniel is now glassy eyed and no longer recognizes you as anything but a threat...there is no reasoning, it's like facing Old Yeller in his last moments.  I was there in the 70's when Dobies were persecuted, (they only kill their masters you know).   Did anything scare the bejeebers outta you more then the scene from Omen, a pack of snarling Rottweilers all dripping saliva and wearing prosthetics to give them the look of baring fangs?  

Spaniel rage is hereditary, it cant be trained out of them, it's akin to a siezure in the brain that is literally a Jekyl and Hyde reaction.   90 percent of the time though aggressive behavior is man made.   Left to their own devices, dogs show aggression typically while hunting, establish pack order or defending territory.   It took people to capitalize on those traits and twist them into something other then intended.   People. 

In my years of breeding we have established tests that are done on 6-8 week old puppies that will tell us where that individual puppy falls in the aggression/intelligence scale.   I have come across some that were naturally more dominant in nature and required a little more training then others and I could see the potential if placed in the wrong hands.  It's my responsibility to see they are placed in the proper home, with educated folks.   The breed doesn't matter, the key is upbringing and education.

Let me share this...while at a dog show with over 1000 dogs, a woman was walking her Greyhound through the crowd, making her way to the ring.   Am Staffs were having a specialty (a large number of dogs in one particular breed) in the ring next door.  The Greyhound paraded through a pack of Staffs without any problem, no growling, lunging or aggressive display.   However, as she passed by the ring where Siberian Huskies were being judged, one lunged and tore a hole in the hound before anyone heard a squeal.  

Any breed has potential for disaster.  All it takes is the right timing and the wrong owner.

I am truly sorry to hear your dog was injured, that must have been a horrific ordeal.  My best wishes for a speedy recovery to both of you.  I'm also glad to read that you have not joined the list of breed specific haters...:)   Lets give credit where it's due..and maybe if we started hitting irresponsible dog owners in the pocket book more often, there would be less incidents such as what you endured.  

Lisa



Rule -> RE: To the haters of pitbull haters -- (6/17/2010 7:03:00 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen
It works just the same with guns, cars, booze and even children; some are just too stupid to be allowed to have any of them for fear of the abuse that will result and the damage that will then follow.

Quoted for truth.



xxblushesxx -> RE: To the haters of pitbull haters -- (6/17/2010 7:08:50 AM)

Lisa, I knew cockers were aggressive, but now I'm curious; what about Cavaliers? That's what we're planning on next. (probably in five years or so...depending on how long the dogs we have now are around)



domiguy -> RE: To the haters of pitbull haters -- (6/17/2010 7:14:30 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: AlwaysLisa

Any breed has potential for disaster.  All it takes is the right timing and the wrong owner.



But with certain breeds like the pit bull that combination of "right timing and the wrong owner" can lead to serious injury or even death.



domiguy -> RE: To the haters of pitbull haters -- (6/17/2010 7:18:42 AM)

The breeds most likely to kill

In recent years, the dogs responsible for the bulk of the homicides are pit bulls and Rottweilers:

"Studies indicate that pit bull-type dogs were involved in approximately a third of human DBRF (i.e., dog bite related fatalities) reported during the 12-year period from 1981 through1992, and Rottweilers were responsible for about half of human DBRF reported during the 4 years from 1993 through 1996....[T]he data indicate that Rottweilers and pit bull-type dogs accounted for 67% of human DBRF in the United States between 1997 and 1998. It is extremely unlikely that they accounted for anywhere near 60% of dogs in the United States during that same period and, thus, there appears to be a breed-specific problem with fatalities." (Sacks JJ, Sinclair L, Gilchrist J, Golab GC, Lockwood R. Breeds of dogs involved in fatal human attacks in the United States between 1979 and 1998. JAVMA 2000;217:836-840.)

The Clifton study of attacks from 1982 through 2006 produced similar results. According to Clifton study, pit bulls, Rottweilers, Presa Canarios and their mixes were responsible for 65% of the canine homicides that occurred during a period of 24 years in the USA. (Clifton, Dog attack deaths and maimings, U.S. & Canada, September 1982 to November 13, 2006; click here to read it.)



sirsholly -> RE: To the haters of pitbull haters -- (6/17/2010 7:25:40 AM)

quote:

You're more likely to be bitten by a toy breed than a Pit, but a toy can't really do much damage to people,
Well...those little teeth of a mini-breed can do damage to the little limbs of a child, but there can also be the emotional factor.

My three yr old was playing with a relatives toy poodle. The little fuzz-ball weighed all of about two pounds and the LoudOne was very gentle. The dog loved the kid and the attention.
A few minutes later the poodle was on the lap of its owner and the LO sat down too close to the owner for the jealous dogs liking. It lunged at the LO and bit his arm, breaking the skin and causing bleeding. I was right there, as obviously was the owner, so it was not an issue of a dog left alone with a child.

Now, the LoudOne is a toughie and thus far i can't see any ill effects. But if the poodle had really scared him, or any child, it is nearly a given that larger breeds could cause total terror.





DaddysInkedSlut -> RE: To the haters of pitbull haters -- (6/17/2010 7:57:59 AM)

Fact: Out of the estimated 53 million dogs in the United States 92 fatal attacks are contributed to Pit Bulls or Pit Bull Mixes (2 were from American Staffordshire Terriers) from 1965-2001.

Source: Fatal Dog Attacks by Karen Delise

Imagine that. 53 million dogs. 92 fatal attacks out of 431 that span a 37 year period (1965-2001). Now I ask you, after looking at the numbers do we have a dangerous dog problem?

Do we have a dangerous dog problem or is it being sensationalized to sell newspapers and create panic?


Fatal dog attacks by dangerous dogs are almost non-existent. 20 a year out of millions of dogs. The percentages are estimated to be somewhere around .0000004% of dog attacks are fatal.

Pit Pull and Fatal Dog Attacks




mistoferin -> RE: To the haters of pitbull haters -- (6/17/2010 8:26:13 AM)

I'm not a Pit Bull hater by any stretch of the means and I do know that it is not the breed that is at fault but the people. That said though I also live very squarely in reality and thus I also have to admit that we DO have a problem with Pits.

Don't make judgments based on what is happening in a dog ring where every dog there was bred by a responsible breeder and is in the hands of qualified people. Take a stroll instead through an inner city neighborhood where conservatively, 75% of the dogs in those neighborhoods are Pits or Pit mixes. And they are NOT Pits that came from a responsible breeder who was breeding specific traits to enhance the social temperment of this breed. They come from back yard or basement breeders who are TRYING to breed tough, aggressive animals. Their only real concern of the offspring is how many crack rocks they will be able to get when they sell them.

I have worked as a Cruelty Investigator and have picked up many litters of Pit pups who were so aggressive and feral at 6 to 12 weeks old that they couldn't be handled. That is not a result of conditioning, that is a result of poor breeding and over breeding. It continues to be perpetuated because they are in high demand in those neighborhoods. I've seen entire litters of six week old Pit pups with their ears and tails cut off entirely at their bodies, wearing three lb locks around their necks to strengthen them, being fed diets of fish sticks, tabasco sauce and gunpowder mixed in with their kibble.

Yes, it's the people who are creating the problem and the dogs are the innocent victims in their shitty game. I believe that there should be a law that, unless you are a licensed breeder, you should be required to have your dogs spayed or neutered. And the licensing fee to breed should be high enough to discourage those trying to just make money off of it. Anyone breeding dogs in a responsible manner knows it is no get rich scheme after the costs of proper veterinary care, quality food, supplements and medications are figured in.



xssve -> RE: To the haters of pitbull haters -- (6/17/2010 8:52:52 AM)

http://www.dogsbite.org/bite-fatalities-2008.htm

I have Chipins, they're a lot like dogs, only smaller. The bigger one did bite my sons toe while he was sleeping, he's gotten grumpy in in his old age.



daddysprop247 -> RE: To the haters of pitbull haters -- (6/17/2010 9:09:13 AM)

there is a very tender spot in my heart for pit bull breeds, because of the horrific and widespread abuse, misuse, neglect and over-breeding they are suffering at human hands. it's especially maddening that the laws are so lax when it comes to prosecuting the evil so-called human beings who use the animals this way.

there is another reason why i love the breed however...as a child and up through my teens i had a paralyzing fear of dogs. all dogs. someone simply had to mention that there was a dog off-leash anywhere in the neighborhood, and i would go into a panic attack. kids teased me constantly because of this fear, being very cruel as kids tend to be. i remember the most vicious dog in my childhood neighborhood being a collie which could have doubled for lassie...everytime i would walk by that house on my way home from school, that regal looking dog would come rip roaring around the corner and bark and snarl as if i were meant to be dinner. more than once he was able to leap the fence bordering his property and i had to actually run for my freakin' life.

then when i was about 21, we got some new neighbors. they had a pit bull mix, quite larger than the typical pit but with that characteristic head size and shape. they kept him chained outdoors 24/7/365...used him as a security system. their only interaction with the dog was giving him food and water in the evenings. otherwise they would barely even look in that direction. seeing that everyday, right next door, really got to me. i tried educating his owners about providing more adequate shelter, more food and water, giving him walks, etc. i even went so far as to use my allowance to purchase supplies for the dog...food and water bowls, a proper leash, collars galore, toys, treats, etc. they would use whatever i gave them as long as it didn't involve any efforts on their part. one time when i tried to point out that you shouldn't keep a dog in a plywood crappy doghouse with overnight temps barely above zero, and the woman laughed at me and said, "it's a DOG!" like, "it's a ROCK!"

to make a long story somewhat shorter...i started taking care of the dog myself. i would sneak over in the daytimes while the owners were working, and give the dog icy cold water in a sparking clean dish, good quality food, fix up the interior of his doghouse as best i could, etc. and of course, i would talk to him. at first my fear kept me at a distance, but seeing his big beautiful sad eyes i lost that fear. i started petting him, hugging him, playing with him. and after a few more months i finally asked the owners if i could just take him. they reluctantly agreed, claiming that "he's barely any good now anyway, you've softened him up."

so for the first time in my life i had a dog, and to everyone else he was about the most vicious-looking dog you could ever see. he could overpower me easily, but never did. he could rip me apart no problem, but was always amazingly gentle with me. Daddy said he flat out didn't understand it, how someone with my personality and demeanor could "tame" a dog who was so aggressive. but i always knew he wasn't really aggressive, he was just frustrated and neglected. i knew he would never hurt me, Daddy, or our cat Scooter (they drank from the same water bowl frequently). i also knew he would do anything to protect us. that's part of the beauty of the breed, their tremendous capacity for love and loyalty.

sadly when we moved to this county they would not allow us to keep Red...so we gave him to a relative of mine with a huge property and other dogs. he was very happy there til he passed away last year of natural causes. but i think it's so awesome that a scary-looking pit bull taught me not to be afraid of dogs.



CalifChick -> RE: To the haters of pitbull haters -- (6/17/2010 9:10:41 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddysInkedSlut

Fact: Out of the estimated 53 million dogs in the United States 92 fatal attacks are contributed to Pit Bulls or Pit Bull Mixes (2 were from American Staffordshire Terriers) from 1965-2001.



I was just wondering what the acceptable number is?  Is 92 deaths acceptable?  Is the number acceptable only if it is someone else's infant, toddler, kid, teen, mother, father, grandmother, grandfather, friend, neighbor?

Cali



mistoferin -> RE: To the haters of pitbull haters -- (6/17/2010 9:31:06 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl


quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

No dog can ever be trusted with children nor with smaller dogs and small animals. It is as simple as that.

I do agree that pit-bulls are bred only for fighting and for people with murderous intents. They are neither working dogs nor lap-dogs.



No dog should ever be left alone with children.



I have a 150 lb black lab that would prove you both wrong. he treats the smaller dogs as his children, snuggles up to a stuffed toy bunny to sleep, and adores children. after 7 years, he has never once bit anyone, been left alone with children and smaller animals, and is a tender hearted baby.


tazzygirl, I do understand what you are saying. I have three labradors that are my babies. They love children. But....

The reality is that they are animals. We have no real understanding of how their minds and instincts work and there is no way of knowing what is going to trip the trigger in a dog's head that makes a child go from "play" to "prey". As much as I love and trust my dogs, I would never leave them unattended with a child, nor would I ever tell anyone that they are incapable of biting. They are dogs.



xssve -> RE: To the haters of pitbull haters -- (6/17/2010 9:47:01 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CalifChick

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddysInkedSlut

Fact: Out of the estimated 53 million dogs in the United States 92 fatal attacks are contributed to Pit Bulls or Pit Bull Mixes (2 were from American Staffordshire Terriers) from 1965-2001.



I was just wondering what the acceptable number is?  Is 92 deaths acceptable?  Is the number acceptable only if it is someone else's infant, toddler, kid, teen, mother, father, grandmother, grandfather, friend, neighbor?

Cali



quote:


2008 statistics
  • 23 U.S. fatal dog attacks occurred in 2008. Pit bull type dogs were responsible for 65% (15). Pit bulls make up approximately 5% of the U.S. dog population.2
  • In 2008, only one U.S. citizen over the age of 3 was killed by a breed other than a pit bull. 74-year old Lorraine May was fatally mauled by her two dogs: an Australian shepherd-mix and a golden retriever-mix.
  • 70% of the attacks occurred to children (11 years and under) and 30% occurred to adults (21 years and older). Of the children, half (8) occurred to ages 1 and younger.39% of fatal attacks in 2008 involved multiple dogs; 9% involved chained dogs.
  • 78% of the attacks occurred on owner property and 22% off owner property. All off property attacks (5) that resulted in death were attributed to pit bulls.
  • 61% of the victims were male; 39% of the victims were female. Of the male victims, over half (8) were 3 years and younger.
  • In at least three fatal attacks, a grandmother was watching a child aged 2 and younger. Two of these attacks occurred in Las Vegas; both involved pet pit bulls.

    •



    VirginPotty -> RE: To the haters of pitbull haters -- (6/17/2010 10:01:49 AM)

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: sirsholly

    quote:

    You're more likely to be bitten by a toy breed than a Pit, but a toy can't really do much damage to people,
    Well...those little teeth of a mini-breed can do damage to the little limbs of a child, but there can also be the emotional factor.

    My three yr old was playing with a relatives toy poodle. The little fuzz-ball weighed all of about two pounds and the LoudOne was very gentle. The dog loved the kid and the attention.
    A few minutes later the poodle was on the lap of its owner and the LO sat down too close to the owner for the jealous dogs liking. It lunged at the LO and bit his arm, breaking the skin and causing bleeding. I was right there, as obviously was the owner, so it was not an issue of a dog left alone with a child.

    Now, the LoudOne is a toughie and thus far i can't see any ill effects. But if the poodle had really scared him, or any child, it is nearly a given that larger breeds could cause total terror.



    I had a mama cat act the same way with me. One evening just as sweet as can be, lying on my lap nursing one of her babies, purring against me, playing w/a friend I brought home from class.

    Same night after midnight I hear thru a baby monitor crying from her room so I went to check on her & she attacked me. Started at my feet then jumped up to my face & wouldn't let go for what seemed to be forever. I managed to get her loose & pushed her back into the room & closed the door. She proceeded to bang against the door trying to get at me. I had to call the rescue group & animal control to get her.

    You cannot tell what's going on in an animal's head, even the most docile of animals will turn on you when they think you're in anyway, shape or form a threat. I attribute the cat's attack on me because unfortunately her babies were dying at an alarming rate from a UTI which is 99% fatal in kittens. I'm thinking she made the connection of her babies "leaving" with me being around & of her last 2 kittens (out of 5) 1 was very sick & scheduled to be put down the next day.  I should of let her mourn her dead babies & I didn't do that.[&o]



    Hillwilliam -> RE: To the haters of pitbull haters -- (6/17/2010 11:11:37 AM)

    Ive been around a lot of Pitts and other dogs due to my business (real estate)  The only time a Pitt her ever came close to hurting me was the bruises on my leg from that damn bullwhip tail while I was scratching their ears.  That tail can HURT.  If pitts were easier to lift, you could hold em near a subbie's ass and let em flog the heck out of her that tail wags so hard.LOL



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