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Why Just Pros? - 6/16/2010 11:16:10 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		This thread is going to be opening a huge can of worms.  I know that it is very likely that some tempers are going to get heated.  I'm even going to go so far as to apologize to the Mods in advance, because I know this subject is going to stir the pot.

The subject of pro domination comes up around here a lot.  Every time it does, inevitably, there will be contributions on such threads about people's personal opinions of pro dommes.  A lot of people don't feel that BDSM is something that should be engaged in for financial purposes.  Fair enough.

So, why aren't the clients held up to the same kind of scrutiny?  Why aren't the same kind of slurs thrown about for those paying for the session as those who are receiving payment?


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Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread
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RE: Why Just Pros? - 6/16/2010 11:19:40 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Sorta like how a man will be nudged and winked at for paying a hooker while the hooker gets the heat. I personally see nothing wrong with visiting a Pro. They provide a service that someone is willing to pay for. As long as no one gets hurt, whats the harm.

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RE: Why Just Pros? - 6/16/2010 11:24:58 PM   
SocratesNot


Posts: 812
Joined: 5/17/2010
Status: offline 		I have absolutely nothing against Pros who do what they do, openly, honestly, and professionally, and I also have nothing against their clients.

I only have a LOT against deceivers and con artists.


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Amicus Plato, sed magis amica veritas. - Aristotle
Plato is my friend, but truth is a better friend. - Aristotle

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RE: Why Just Pros? - 6/16/2010 11:55:23 PM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline 		Some are jealous of not belonging to the oldest profession?  Strange but true male urban mythology has it a man never, ever needs to pay if he is a read bear swilling macho man with a huge schlong.

Sadly generations of male have been educated to believe this and numerous other Urban male Myths for after all this was their only form of sex education until the smart father took therm to visit a chicken ranch or similar.

I have friends who are or have been prostitutes and friends of both sexes who are their regular clients. the local church women's groups tend to be moralistic about the prostitutes in case their husbands are clients perhaps never took any notice of the wouser element.

I also have happy memories of my younger and wilder days being often enough taken home to a prostitute's flat, put to bed to sleep off the heavy night's drinking after she had cleaned the blood off me from one or three bar room fights. In the mornings I'd be served breakfast and my wallet placed on the table and me asked to check all was as it should be and even betting my first black eye for offering to pay for being looked after.


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RE: Why Just Pros? - 6/17/2010 12:14:05 AM   
AQuietSimpleMan


Posts: 1410
Joined: 11/15/2009
Status: offline 		Well since we are starting shit let me be the first to throw it.

I think Pro Domme's come in a variety of types, much the way hookers do, That being said I have respect for Call Girls and Escorts, the activity may be the same but the way they carry themselves is MUCH different. I see many of the Pro's on CollarMe Much the same way I see Crack Whores and Street Hookers.

There are SO many of them that it isn't about an experience it's about getting paid. I see ACTUAL Pro Dominatrixes as women providing a service in a Skilled and professional way. I Respect that. I see the women of CollarMe as being either Jokes or no better than the African Scammers.

I see sub's of these women the same way I see the johns of the different style prostitutes, a john of a Call Girl or Escort is paying for a service that is being administered by a professional, it isn't just what they are doing but how they are doing is and how well the complete the fantasy. Again if you can afford the Call Girl/Escort and you carry yourself in a dignified manner then again I have no issue with that I even can respect the surgical way in which it is done.

But who respects a Crack Whole giving a Blow Job in an alley for a couple hits on a crack pipe and a $20.00 bill.

I do not respect someone who pays someone to call them a worm online then meets with them beats their penis for an hour and then demands a new Blender or Toaster as a Tribute.

I have met in my time close to 100 self proclaimed "Pro" Domme's all of which I knew on a "personal" level meaning I just knew them not paid for their serviced, all of them literally refered to their johns in some form of derogatory manner such as "ATM" "SubbyBank" "Banker" "Credit Card" to all of them the act itself was all about money and that in itself was the kink, there was no care of the submissive beyond their ability to pay them money.

Of the Call Girls and Escorts I have, and still know, all of them treat their "Clients" as "Clients" there is no disrespect, it is just business, they perform a service, a literal service that is treated like a business and well I just respect that.

I compare all the "Pro" Dommes I have Heard/Read about on CollarMe to the above scale and very few make it above the Street Hooker level, The only exception to that was a Pro Sub who used to post here, although at times she made trivial responces to her own position, she did speak rather professionally about the Johns and I respected the way she treated that.

Water seeks it's own level. Meaning that I feel the same for the Johns of Trash as I feel about the Trash themselves. I think of the Johns of Professional People as I feel about those people.

QSM

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RE: Why Just Pros? - 6/17/2010 12:57:17 AM   
MissAsylum


Posts: 1863
Joined: 1/9/2009
Status: offline 		yep LP, pot stirred. lol. but i sort of agree with AQSM above me. i dont refer to clients as pay pigs, ATMs, or other terms like that- i do believe you are thinking of Financial Dommes rather than Professional Dommes. but if you've come across somebody who has the description of a FinDomme, but is passing themselves along as a ProDomme- that can be a problem. Personally, its more about the client than it is about me during play. Once we've established what it is they are looking for and that it fits within my interests, i do everything withing my abilities to make sure they leave fulfilled. But a strong detail is that what they want has to be something i like doing. I'm not a kink-ATM which many men who proposition a ProDomme believes(puts his card in- his most twisted and specific fantasy comes out). and i'm not a fan of ProDommes who do that and the "give me what i want because I'm paying you" attitude trickles down to me.

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RE: Why Just Pros? - 6/17/2010 1:01:04 AM   
allthatjaz


Posts: 2878
Joined: 8/20/2008
Status: offline 		What I see on here is a few but only a very few professional Dommes. These women take their business seriously, don't arse about and are absolutely clear and upfront about what they do. Those women may do a little networking on here but this isn't their business port hole.
What I mainly see on here are ten a penny pretty girls that not only wouldn't have a clue about running a professional service but wouldn't have a clue what to do with the client.. if they ever got one! These women don't have there own websites but use this free service in the hope of making some dosh.
Steve gets at least one email a month on this site from hookers suggesting they chat on yahoo. Whats all that about? To me it cries of desperation from a bunch of clueless women that really do need to go out and get a proper job and preferably not one in a dungeon.
Then we have the goddesses. The ones that demand tributes and show attitude because they have a false misconception of what a Domme is. Good luck to them I say but they are investing far too much time earning nothing.

As for the guys that go to see pro Dommes in a straightforward business like manner, I say, good for you. You needed a service, you paid the cash and she delivered... well done.
The guys that chat for weeks to a woman who is going to eventually charge them, when or if they eventually meet, I say, get what you need online and keep the silly woman chasing her own tail for as long as you possibly can. Who can blame these guys for picking up the wank fodder.
The guys that send money online don't have the sense they were born with but then perhaps they like getting screwed over.
The guys that actually do go out and buy some hefty tribute, fine, so long as you got something back and I don't just mean an email or a coffee at starbucks. Remember guys, by the time you have spent all your money on gifts and come away with absolutely zilch, you could of been seeing a professional and got one hell of a lot more for your money.

I would also say this to guys that get all hooked up on one Domme. If she really is a professional then your in for the ride of your life if you really are serious about a session. If she spins you along she is doing it because she's working out how she can get the most money out of you and believe you me, you wont be seeing her or talking to her anymore once your wallets empty. Stop kidding yourself your special because your not and all your heading towards is disappointment.

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Fan of edgeplay.co.uk

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RE: Why Just Pros? - 6/17/2010 1:02:25 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		AQSM, your last paragraph is exactly the point.  I think there's a hypocrisy on this subject.  Folks are more than willing to make derogatory remarks about pros, but it's very rare for them to have the same attitudes toward the clients.  In fact, there are a number of occasions where the very suggestion of 'go to a pro' is often made.  There are no comments about that person being a 'subbiejohn' or any other such thing.  They aren't called fakes for engaging in BDSM due to a financial transaction.  No shouts of scammersub.  No indignation from the masses.  Zilch.

So, how is it that there are two people involved in the business transaction, yet one of them is approved of and the other is not?  It seems to Me, too often, there is one standard for the woman and a completely different one for the man.


_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

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RE: Why Just Pros? - 6/17/2010 1:10:53 AM   
ranja


Posts: 2111
Joined: 11/1/2007
Status: offline 		i contemplated becoming a 'sex worker' myself... i have no problem with hookers or prostitutes or Dominatrixes or call girls or what ever they wanna call themselves... nor with their clients although as with all people some of them are bound to be stupid and/or unlikable.

Oh... i decided against it as it seemed to me that making sex my job would rather take the fun out of it... still i hope at some point i might be lucky enough to 'earn some on the side'...

< Message edited by ranja -- 6/17/2010 1:11:35 AM >

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RE: Why Just Pros? - 6/17/2010 1:18:36 AM   
LadyNTrainer


Posts: 1584
Joined: 5/20/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AQuietSimpleMan
I have met in my time close to 100 self proclaimed "Pro" Domme's all of which I knew on a "personal" level meaning I just knew them not paid for their serviced, all of them literally refered to their johns in some form of derogatory manner such as "ATM" "SubbyBank" "Banker" "Credit Card" to all of them the act itself was all about money and that in itself was the kink, there was no care of the submissive beyond their ability to pay them money.


That is horrible, horrible business ethics, especially in an industry where your client's physical, mental and emotional health and safety are literally in your hands.  Would you voluntarily do business with a doctor, a plumber, a building contractor or an auto mechanic who operated this way?  I should hope that no one would, but for better or worse, the adult industry is not nearly as well regulated and there are no formal certifications or ethics boards.  Caveat emptor, and that is all. 

I have no idea why you chose to spend your social time on people with a total lack of professional ethics whom you could not respect.  I wouldn't.  There are better choices to be made, and life is too short not to make them. 


quote:

Of the Call Girls and Escorts I have, and still know, all of them treat their "Clients" as "Clients" there is no disrespect, it is just business, they perform a service, a literal service that is treated like a business and well I just respect that.


That is a fair assessment.  Any professional has an ethical obligation to their client, but by definition the relationship doesn't go any deeper than that, and doesn't involve personal favoritism or deep emotional involvement.  If it does, then it has ceased to be professional.


quote:

I compare all the "Pro" Dommes I have Heard/Read about on CollarMe to the above scale and very few make it above the Street Hooker level


Yes, well, thanks so kindly. 


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RE: Why Just Pros? - 6/17/2010 1:18:52 AM   
wittynamehere


Posts: 759
Joined: 2/5/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact
...people's personal opinions of pro dommes... why aren't the clients held up to the same kind of scrutiny?

Are you asking people to be more critical of submissives who are willing to pay for beatings etc? If so, why?
IMO a select few ENJOY paying for it. The majority have little choice because there are so few dominant women out there who don't charge to spank and bark orders.


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RE: Why Just Pros? - 6/17/2010 1:21:23 AM   
allthatjaz


Posts: 2878
Joined: 8/20/2008
Status: offline 		Hi Lady Pact

To answer your question. One is the payee and one is the paid. The paid takes responsibility for providing a service. The payee is somewhat invisible or at least should be. When you go into a restaurant to eat, you may go because the menu looks good, the reputation is great or just because your hungry. If you have a good meal then you may reccomend it to a few friends but if you have a poor meal or bad service then you will tell everyone who is prepared to listen. Its all about the restaurant and nothing about the customer at the end of the day.
There are plenty of men around that would quite happily pay for a service. They have money in their pocket and all they need now is the right Domme. Those that get it right and find a professional who a) isn't going to rip them off and b) is actually going to give them a session without stringing them along for days, weeks before making some excuse of why they can't do it ( Truth is, a lot of these women will chicken out when the real macoy comes along) will happily keep quiet and remain satisfied. Those that have been stung will complain, often loudly and quite rightly too. Theres one guy that comes on here that hates pro Dommes with vengeance. People like him have probably been stung pretty hard at some point and they are now under the illusion that all pro Dommes are the same.

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RE: Why Just Pros? - 6/17/2010 1:27:17 AM   
DarkSteven


Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline 		Maybe I've got this thing all wrong. I have no issues with women who choose to charge, but look down on the men who are so driven by unmet fetishes that they need to pay.

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RE: Why Just Pros? - 6/17/2010 1:35:39 AM   
LadyNTrainer


Posts: 1584
Joined: 5/20/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: wittynamehere
IMO a select few ENJOY paying for it. The majority have little choice because there are so few dominant women out there who don't charge to spank and bark orders.


Consider why this is so.  There are dominant women on the board seeking a personal relationship.  But of the male "submissives" who are actively seeking the attention of a dominant woman, the overwhelming majority are doing so in a manner that makes it clear that the object is their immediate and shallow sexual gratification, with little or no interest in getting to know the human being who is performing their fantasy for them.   They want a drive-through McDomme's, an instant kink fix, a pair of tits and a whip, and they aren't particularly discriminating or socially skilled in how they go about searching.  Mostly they send penis pictures and kink laundry lists, totally ignore everything a woman has to say in her profile, and expect her to be excited about the prospect of dressing in tight scratchy clothes to cater to their fantasy for an hour before they go home to their real lives.

Uh, no.  That doesn't work.  If that is what you want, then yes, I'm afraid you have no choice but to pay for it.  Real live human dominant women are not the drive-through McDomme's where you can just order what you want and get it when you want it, not unless they've agreed to hang out the pro shingle and trade this sort of one-way service topping for your money.   It's not really all that much fun to cater to the kinky fantasies of a stranger who doesn't want to take the time for a relationship with a real person, even if you happen to share a kink.

If what you want *is* a relationship, and you are actually ready for a relationship with a human being, not a cardboard cut-out from a fetish magazine you can masturbate to and otherwise ignore, the dommes are out there and looking.  If you're too focused on your own sexual fetishes to care much about the person who does them to you, it should not be a big surprise when you don't connect to any actual human beings in your search.  If you can be open, friendly, respectful, human, honest, authentically yourself, emotionally available and vulnerable, and there for her when she needs a friend, you're relationship material.  If you can't or won't, you aren't.  It also helps if you take care of yourself physically and spend time on your personal grooming to be attractive to the ladies.  Sadly, most "submissives" aren't, and they don't actually understand why no dominant woman wants to spend time with them unless she's being paid to do it.   A very large part of the answer can be found in the mirror, not in the gender ratios on adult meat market sites. 


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RE: Why Just Pros? - 6/17/2010 1:36:51 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: wittynamehere
Are you asking people to be more critical of submissives who are willing to pay for beatings etc? If so, why?
IMO a select few ENJOY paying for it. The majority have little choice because there are so few dominant women out there who don't charge to spank and bark orders.


What I'm saying is that the same standard should apply.  Wherever a person finds themselves on the issue, I don't think one should be singled out over the other.  That is exactly what happens time and time again.

I am not going to stretch the subject to the fin domme issue.  Not any different than any other kink.  I'd like to keep the topic focused on the attitudes being different for those involving themselves specifically in business transactions.

As to your last sentence, I have to tell you that I don't agree.  Go to any local munch and there are absolutely female tops there.


_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

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RE: Why Just Pros? - 6/17/2010 1:43:33 AM   
LadyCimarron


Posts: 625
Joined: 12/29/2009
Status: offline 		Hi AQSM,

you kind of proved the woman's point. You took a great deal of time to trash pro-dommes and everything about them. You really referred to the women to the lowest degree you could think of then at the end tacked on one little sentence calling the men nothing but Johns and referring to the women as trash. And NOTE: you called the men Johns whether they went to "professional women" or "trash." So you actually said very little (if anything) derogatory about the men.

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RE: Why Just Pros? - 6/17/2010 1:44:26 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		Steven,

I'm glad you spoke up.  To be frank, I didn't think the thread would produce anyone with that particular opinion.  Could I talk you into expanding on that a bit?
quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

Maybe I've got this thing all wrong. I have no issues with women who choose to charge, but look down on the men who are so driven by unmet fetishes that they need to pay.


_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to DarkSteven)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Why Just Pros? - 6/17/2010 1:46:43 AM   
allthatjaz


Posts: 2878
Joined: 8/20/2008
Status: offline 		I really do have to go out shopping but this post is interesting

I think its presumed by many, that men who go and see a professional Mistresses are often married or in a committed relationship. Some are and some are not.
Many single guys go to see a professional so that they can actually taste what submission or pain feels like from a female hand. Many of these men have tried, often for years, to get a bit of play time. They have often invested huge man hours into trying to get noticed and often unsuccessfully. You only have to go to a Fem Domme club to see a huge overflow of wallflowers that turn up week after week, month after month in the hope of getting the smallest amount of attention from a fem Domme. Many will go home disappointed time and time again.
The shy guys amongst these wall flowers don't really have a hope in hell. Should they continue until they are old ? What on earth is disrespectful in them fulfilling that fantasy? Not all guys are young and virile and built like gladiators. A lot of these male subs are elderly, obese, are extremely shy or just lack confidence because of the number of times they have been rejected.

Its ok for a Dom to look down on a male sub that seeks a professional. Male Doms are far more likely to find a submissive play mate than a male sub is of finding a fem Domme. They need to put themselves into another mans shoes. The shoes of a man that has spent many frustrated years living a fantasy in their head because rl turns up nothing.

< Message edited by allthatjaz -- 6/17/2010 1:50:52 AM >

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RE: Why Just Pros? - 6/17/2010 1:47:59 AM   
SocratesNot


Posts: 812
Joined: 5/17/2010
Status: offline 		Without reading the rest of this thread - I apologize for it, but I am in a hurry now - I will tell you my opinion.

Professional dommes who really perform genuine domination in real life in physical dungeons - have all my respect. Many of them are real artists and Masters of their profession. They perform legitimate service, and I also respect their clients who are willing to pay to experience something that they couldn't otherwise experience.

Online professional dommes who actually interact with their clients online and try to established respectful professional interaction based on D/s also have a lot of my respect, as well as their clients who are maybe unable to experience domination in other way.

Online financial dommes and their clients do not have very much of my respect - simply because I don't like financial domination - but I am tolerant to them as long as they are honest about what they do and as long as they are not deceivers and con artists posing as financial dommes.

Pro dommes who claim that they are only lifestyle dommes are deceivers and I don't respect them at all.

Dommes who claim that they are looking for genuine online relationship - only to later ask for tributes, are dishonest in my opinion and they are actually gold diggers posing as dommes, so they also don't have my respect.

Quasi financial dommes - who are actually not offering any interaction with subs, but just ask for money, also don't have any of my respect, and they are also gold diggers posing as dommes.

And finally those who engage in blackmail fantasy are very dangerous IMO, and they don't have any of my respect.


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Amicus Plato, sed magis amica veritas. - Aristotle
Plato is my friend, but truth is a better friend. - Aristotle

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RE: Why Just Pros? - 6/17/2010 1:57:25 AM   
AQuietSimpleMan


Posts: 1410
Joined: 11/15/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

AQSM, your last paragraph is exactly the point.  I think there's a hypocrisy on this subject.  Folks are more than willing to make derogatory remarks about pros, but it's very rare for them to have the same attitudes toward the clients. 

So, how is it that there are two people involved in the business transaction, yet one of them is approved of and the other is not?  It seems to Me, too often, there is one standard for the woman and a completely different one for the man.




I think you may have mistook me as I feel equal disdain for the Johns as I do the "Pro" By this what I mean is that when I see a "Pro" who is looking for a cash cow and has no respect for the business aspect and literally sees just talking to them as something to be paid for getting as much out of a john as they can and then when there is no money casting them off as an empty wallet.

Now lets be honest an Escort or a Call Girl is not going to be calling on you to make sure you are okay, they will not see you if you cannot pay for it, but they treat it like a business in that a john does not expect to spend time with them unless it is paid. What I have noticed on CollarMe is this Farming of Subs, This idea of Tribute, where they lead many subs on and keep their interest as long as money is coming.

What I meant in my last Paragraph is that I see the subs/john equal to the quality of Pro they employ. So the Derogatory comments I made about the "Pro" is equally how I see the sub/john because of company they choose to keep.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyNTrainer

quote:

ORIGINAL: AQuietSimpleMan
I have met in my time close to 100 self proclaimed "Pro" Domme's all of which I knew on a "personal" level meaning I just knew them not paid for their serviced, all of them literally refered to their johns in some form of derogatory manner such as "ATM" "SubbyBank" "Banker" "Credit Card" to all of them the act itself was all about money and that in itself was the kink, there was no care of the submissive beyond their ability to pay them money.


I have no idea why you chose to spend your social time on people with a total lack of professional ethics whom you could not respect. I wouldn't. There are better choices to be made, and life is too short not to make them.






Well if I choose to go to Munches or events, then I choose to be around people I at times respect very little. Socially I only know them because they choose to talk about their activities ad-infinitum. All you have to do is ask "So how much do you care for the subs you service?" and out will come all the funnly looks of "Care?" as if I just asked them if they wanted to give me a hand job. I have a rather harsh distaste for many "Pro" Domme's because of how low they see the people who pay their bills. I have met VERY few who do not have a very negative view of their johns beyond their ability to pay them.


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyNTrainer

quote:

I compare all the "Pro" Dommes I have Heard/Read about on CollarMe to the above scale and very few make it above the Street Hooker level


Yes, well, thanks so kindly.



Sorry I don't know you. Have read little about you. I can say that to some degree when you talk about it in the other threads I don't see a lot of what I see in other "Pro" threads, I even see a thought process that seems Mutual that I rarely see in other Pro's I see that you actually enjoy seeing someone excited when you help them reach a goal.

That being said I will reserve my views on you personally as I don't quite know how to view you at the moment. Because what I see is a Trainer (Whom I have known to be some of the most sadistic bastards on the planet) and they are paid for a service as is being implied in this thread but I don't view you in the same world as a "Pro" Domme I see you more as a Professional Trainer who is also a Domme.

Just my views on the thing.

QSM

_____________________________

Guy Stud =Vs= Girl Slut ~~ Debate ENDED!

"If a Key opens many locks, then it is a Master Key, If a Lock is opened by lots of keys, then it is a Shitty Lock"

(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 20
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