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Who is better - Obama or Bush? - 6/17/2010 6:56:19 PM   
Elisabella


Posts: 3939
Status: offline 		This question derails threads too much. So let's address it head on.

1. Who do you believe is a better President - George W. Bush or Barack Obama?

2. What criteria do you use to determine what makes a good President?

3. What specific examples do you have to demonstrate that one person meets those criteria while the other does not?

4. Do you think that either Bush or Obama is an excellent President?

5. Do you think that either Bush or Obama is a horrible President?
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RE: Who is better - Obama or Bush? - 6/17/2010 7:19:14 PM   
TreasureKY


Posts: 3032
Joined: 4/10/2007
From: Kentucky
Status: offline 		lol...  What were you thinking when you posted this?

1.  They both have their strengths and weaknesses, but I've no opinion if either is "better" than the other at this time.  Different people, different times, different challenges, different amounts of time in office.

Ask me again in a few years.

2.  Much too complicated to go into in a single post... some of which follows the "I know it when I see it" method. 

3.  Other than Obama's seeming inability to live up to his naive campaign promises and Bush's general lack of backbone, none.

4.  No

5.  No

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RE: Who is better - Obama or Bush? - 6/17/2010 7:20:19 PM   
TheHeretic


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RE: Who is better - Obama or Bush? - 6/17/2010 7:33:04 PM   
DarkSteven


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Status: offline 		I consider Bush to be a complete disaster in every way.

Obama has his moments.  But he hasn't shown the backbone to make a sharp departure from Bush.


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RE: Who is better - Obama or Bush? - 6/17/2010 7:36:55 PM   
Elisabella


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY

lol...  What were you thinking when you posted this?



I'm actually genuinely interested in the responses. I'd like to hear a Democrat or Republican explain, specifically, why their party did a better job, rather than derailing spats of your guy sucks/yeah well your guy sucks more.

I generally agree with what you posted - different people, different times, different challenges. But I do think that it's possible to make a case as to why one President was/is better than another...Hoover/FDR would probably be a decent example of that...and as I'm someone that's neither Team Bush nor Team Obama I'd like to hear some of their supporters explain why they believe one is notably better than the other.

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RE: Who is better - Obama or Bush? - 6/17/2010 7:48:31 PM   
domiguy


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Status: offline 		How in God's name can anyone in this day and age still be on "Team Bush?"

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RE: Who is better - Obama or Bush? - 6/17/2010 8:12:58 PM   
Arpig


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From: Increasingly further from reality
Status: offline 		Right off the top of my head Obama is better because he stopped torturing the detainees...however Bush was far more effective, though I don't much care for the things he accomplished he seems less of a sellout than Obama.

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RE: Who is better - Obama or Bush? - 6/17/2010 8:32:09 PM   
ThatDamnedPanda


Posts: 6060
Joined: 1/26/2009
Status: offline 		1. Too soon to tell. There's a good chance neither one will wind up having been significantly better or worse than the other.

2. Short answer - integrity, vision, consistency, effective executive skills, competence, ambition, fairmindedness, courage to be wrong, willingness to fight to the death and risk his presidency for what he believes in, ability to communicate his vision to the voters, and personal accountability.

3. "I shall not seek, and will not accept, the nomination of my party..."; "Four score and seven years ago..."; "The buck stops here"; "We must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence by the military-industrial complex..."; "We must be the great arsenal of democracy"; "We hold these truths to be self-evident... (ok, he wasn't president when he said it, but the point stands)."

4. No. Not even close.

5. Yes to Bush, certainly. Unless someone has redefined the word "horrible" since the last time I checked.

As for Obama - it's too soon  to call him horrible. Mediocre is probably the best I could say right now, but horribleness is well within his grasp, and seems far more likely at this point than greatness.


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RE: Who is better - Obama or Bush? - 6/17/2010 8:50:28 PM   
DarlingSavage


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quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

How in God's name can anyone in this day and age still be on "Team Bush?"

No shit!


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RE: Who is better - Obama or Bush? - 6/17/2010 8:53:27 PM   
ThatDamnedPanda


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Status: offline 		Anybody stupid enough to fall for that asshole in the first place has absolutely no relationship with rationality or reason, so why would we expect them to learn anything?

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RE: Who is better - Obama or Bush? - 6/17/2010 9:12:32 PM   
DomKen


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From: Chicago, IL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella

This question derails threads too much. So let's address it head on.

1. Who do you believe is a better President - George W. Bush or Barack Obama?

Obama.

quote:

2. What criteria do you use to determine what makes a good President?

Many things. most recently I'm finding a list of "nots" to be very important. A good president does not torture, does not seek legal opinions to place himself beyond the law, does not lie to start a war, does not attempt to deny people their rights, does not turn over vital regulatory functions to the industries that are supposed to be regulated.

quote:

3. What specific examples do you have to demonstrate that one person meets those criteria while the other does not?

see above.

quote:

4. Do you think that either Bush or Obama is an excellent President?

no.

quote:

5. Do you think that either Bush or Obama is a horrible President?
Bush is simply put the worst President ever. It will be the work of generations to come to undo the harm he has wrought to this nation and to the world.

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RE: Who is better - Obama or Bush? - 6/17/2010 9:17:27 PM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda
3. "I shall not seek, and will not accept, the nomination of my party...";

I'm curious, why did you include this quote? Surely you don't think Tecumseh Sherman would have been a good president.

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RE: Who is better - Obama or Bush? - 6/17/2010 9:23:13 PM   
FatDomDaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda
3. "I shall not seek, and will not accept, the nomination of my party...";

I'm curious, why did you include this quote? Surely you don't think Tecumseh Sherman would have been a good president.




I don't know about Sherman but Lyndon Baines Johnson wasn't much of one.

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RE: Who is better - Obama or Bush? - 6/17/2010 9:57:43 PM   
subtee


Posts: 5133
Joined: 7/26/2007
Status: offline 		~FR

History will tell the story.

George Herbert Walker Bush will be remembered as one of the very worst presidents to ever be elected in the United States.

He can lie and obfuscate and cover up what he's done while in office, especially through and with all of his "handlers" who have actually been the puppet masters.

History will unravel all the bullshit and explain the truth.

It's too early to call Obama's legacy, but the wingers are making a nonsense backdrop through which history and time will sort. His policies and mien, especially in light of the tenor battling against him, will show a sharp contrast to his predecessor. IMHO.


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RE: Who is better - Obama or Bush? - 6/17/2010 10:32:17 PM   
Aneirin


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Status: offline 		Bush was a dickhead and Obama is also shaping up to be another dickhead.

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RE: Who is better - Obama or Bush? - 6/18/2010 12:51:32 AM   
MissAsylum


Posts: 1863
Joined: 1/9/2009
Status: offline 		i disagree. i was not in obama's best interest to outright promise everything that he did, i would rather him have said - "here is what i hope to accomplish" but being realistic, he's beenn in office for a year and some months, if he had done even half of what he promised, i would think something shady is going on. you cant undo 8 years of damage in less than a quarter of the time it took to create it. and if you look at how the house and senate voted during the majority of Bush's term, they were all in agreement with Bush's choices. Obama doesnt have that luxury. he has other people to answer to, this isn't a dictatorship he doesn't have all the power that we would like to believe he has.

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RE: Who is better - Obama or Bush? - 6/18/2010 5:15:26 AM   
SL4V3M4YB3


Posts: 3506
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From: S.E. London U.K.
Status: offline 		I kind of feel sorry for any president the way it ends up working out. People that have the impression that one individual alone is going to change their society is going to be in for some stark taste of reality soon enough. People must have very short memories if they can even start to compare Bush with Obama. There is no comparison to be made because Bush was lead around by shadowy figures. People might not agree with an Obama policy but at least they know where it comes from.

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RE: Who is better - Obama or Bush? - 6/18/2010 5:25:17 AM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda
3. "I shall not seek, and will not accept, the nomination of my party...";

I'm curious, why did you include this quote? Surely you don't think Tecumseh Sherman would have been a good president.

LBJ's quote, and he was corrupt has hell.

As for the post, being an independent but knowing full well the tremendous damage Bush has done, it's way too early to tell but Obama so far...is way ahead.

Bush did engage in, was deliberately ignorant of i.e....criminally negligent to allow 3000 people to die in a demonstration of the single worse possible attention to defense of our homeland in our entire history. Any real statesman would have resigned but was in my opinion. However he was far too valuable a puppet and Cheney believe it or not...would have been worse.

The whole question is rendered moot by the fact that presidents are not in control...if they wish to remain alive. For any president to seek real reform...REAL reform in Wash., DC...is a death wish.


< Message edited by MrRodgers -- 6/18/2010 5:39:45 AM >

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RE: Who is better - Obama or Bush? - 6/18/2010 5:33:34 AM   
mnottertail


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RE: Who is better - Obama or Bush? - 6/18/2010 6:38:31 AM   
KITTYLECTRO


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella
Who is better - Obama or Bush?

No.


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