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RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/20/2010 2:07:13 PM   
DCWoody


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Status: offline 		If nothing else, OPs point has been shown remarkably accurate. There are people here talking about athiests not having flown to the sun, throwing the word faith around all over the shop, arguing about de facto scientific method....if I was new here I'd think they were doing it intentionally for shits n giggles, it is pretty funny.

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RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/20/2010 2:07:44 PM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: marie2

Damn.

How come you never talk to me like that?



You're sensible Marie....wouldn't be right to haul you over the coals for a decent contribution. But....send me a ridiculous c-mail and I'll see what I can do to treat you as an object of my ridicule.

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RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/20/2010 2:10:42 PM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DCWoody

If nothing else, OPs point has been shown remarkably accurate. There are people here talking about athiests not having flown to the sun, throwing the word faith around all over the shop, arguing about de facto scientific method....if I was new here I'd think they were doing it intentionally for shits n giggles, it is pretty funny.



Woody....seems your objectivity on this matter is questionable based on previous posts. Again....quoting people word for word isn't my style....though I do remember something along the lines of: "religion is ruining mankind". Now....of course you're entitled to your opinion....but some opinions are built on better foundations than others.

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RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/20/2010 2:11:34 PM   
DomKen


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From: Chicago, IL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DCWoody

If nothing else, OPs point has been shown remarkably accurate. There are people here talking about athiests not having flown to the sun, throwing the word faith around all over the shop, arguing about de facto scientific method....if I was new here I'd think they were doing it intentionally for shits n giggles, it is pretty funny.


It would be hilarious except for the hypocrisy of it. Of course its pretty hard to be an atheist if you can't get used to hypocritical behaviour by theists.

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RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/20/2010 2:22:19 PM   
DCWoody


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Status: offline 		@Northern Gent. It's probably a good idea not to quote people, cos as far as I recall I never said anything remotely like that.

However I do think god isn't real, and furthermore that it is so overridingly clear that god isn't real, that anyone with access to any sort of education, the internet, forums like this.....who still thinks he is, is an idiot. This could probably be described as 'questionable objectivity' by some religious, but I disagree.....it is not bias on my part that they are wrong, any more than you would lack objectivity in a discussion about dragons because you're fairly sure they don't exist (I assume).



If your comment was in any way trying to dispute the veritable army of poorly formed scarecrows plaguing this thread, I suggest ya try reading it.

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RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/20/2010 2:26:17 PM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DCWoody

@Northern Gent. It's probably a good idea not to quote people, cos as far as I recall I never said anything remotely like that.



Then your memory is failing you......what about: "religion is incredibly stupid"....

And perhaps you said something like...."atheism isn't ruining mankind"....the inference being religion is.

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RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/20/2010 2:27:29 PM   
GotSteel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY
While Steel hasn't answered my question about which word he believes I'm playing with, my assumption is that it is the world "faith".

I also thought that Vincent eloquently expressed my position.


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RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/20/2010 2:32:06 PM   
DCWoody


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Status: offline 		My memory is not failing in this case, I have reread every post I've made in this thread and I have said nothing of the sort. Religion being incredibly stupid (stupidity being a lack of general intelligence, common sense, or reason) is a completely different statement to religion ruining mankind.

I was kinda expecting some sort of mild apology and withdrawal when you'd checked, continuing to run with your ficticious quote doesn't do my opinion of you any good.

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RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/20/2010 2:43:41 PM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DCWoody

My memory is not failing in this case, I have reread every post I've made in this thread and I have said nothing of the sort. Religion being incredibly stupid (stupidity being a lack of general intelligence, common sense, or reason) is a completely different statement to religion ruining mankind.

I was kinda expecting some sort of mild apology and withdrawal when you'd checked, continuing to run with your ficticious quote doesn't do my opinion of you any good.



Firstly.....your comment: "religion is incredibly stupid" supports my statement that you're hardly an objective voice.

Secondly....why did you say: "atheism is not ruining mankind"?

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RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/20/2010 2:52:25 PM   
DCWoody


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Status: offline 		Firstly, I already responded to that, mentioning that reality of the word stupid backs my point.

Secondly, somebody said they've never seen religous people saying athiesm is ruining mankind (It is a somewhat common viewpoint of fundamentalists, as it happen) I said maybe that's because athiesm isn't ruining mankind. (as opposed to because religious people are tolerant and accepting).

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RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/20/2010 2:58:12 PM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DCWoody

Firstly, I already responded to that, mentioning that reality of the word stupid backs my point.

Secondly, somebody said they've never seen religous people saying athiesm is ruining mankind (It is a somewhat common viewpoint of fundamentalists, as it happen) I said maybe that's because athiesm isn't ruining mankind. (as opposed to because religious people are tolerant and accepting).



The first part....you must be 'cleverer' than Isaac Newton then....who was religious....and in your view must be 'incredibly stupid'.

The second part...that's fair enough then Woody.

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RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/20/2010 3:03:27 PM   
DCWoody


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Status: offline 		Yes, because it's possible to put everyone in a listed order simply labelled 'intelligence', and Newton had internet access.


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RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/20/2010 3:08:42 PM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DCWoody

Yes, because it's possible to put everyone in a listed order simply labelled 'intelligence', and Newton had internet access.



Then there's the current Prime Minister....and his predecessor....and his predecessor.....religious men....surely all bright blokes?

Anyway....completely off track...so I'll leave it at that.

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RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/20/2010 3:16:29 PM   
GotSteel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent
quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel
You do get that what you did was unethical don't you?

You really are tedious aren't you.

Would this constitute swerving the question? Look at my post and address my point man.

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent
And still.....you continue to avoid what you and I know you're avoiding in order to save face which isn't pretty.

Really? You "know" this? That sounds like it's on topic, please explain how you "know" that?

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RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/20/2010 3:49:27 PM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent
The first part....you must be 'cleverer' than Isaac Newton then....who was religious....and in your view must be 'incredibly stupid'.

Are you aware of the details of Newton's life?

What more could he have accomplished if he hadn't poisoned his brain and body with mercury pursuing alchemy? What more could he have discovered if he didn't spend the last decades of his life writing religious tracts?

Newton's supernatural beliefs certainly reduced the amount of actual science he did.

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RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/20/2010 3:54:26 PM   
luckydawg


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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

I'm not sure it is entirely accurate to say that "models of heaven and hell" are not subject to new data. If you research the history of most any major religion, you can see the doctrines and beliefs do indeed evolve over time.


Perhaps, but not from failure of those models to predict events but rather from changes in our understanding of the Natural world.... like the structure of the earth and the structure of whats up in the sky.



This just isn't true.


The conception of the Divine/Theism/Spirituality/whatever you call it, have changed and evolved for thousands of years. Long before "the Scientific Method", was used to examine the natural world.



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RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/20/2010 4:11:48 PM   
Elisabella


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
Are you aware of the details of Newton's life?

What more could he have accomplished if he hadn't poisoned his brain and body with mercury pursuing alchemy? What more could he have discovered if he didn't spend the last decades of his life writing religious tracts?

Newton's supernatural beliefs certainly reduced the amount of actual science he did.


And Einstein's spiritual beliefs pushed him to work harder.

Believing that his ‘General Theory of Relativity’ was too beautiful to be wrong, Einstein offered one of his most frequently quoted opinions to a reported who had asked him what he would have done had the eclipse experiment not agreed with relativity, “Then I would feel sorry for the good Lord. The theory is correct!”.




< Message edited by Elisabella -- 6/20/2010 4:56:32 PM >

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RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/20/2010 4:26:04 PM   
GotSteel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DCWoody
I was kinda expecting some sort of mild apology and withdrawal when you'd checked, continuing to run with your ficticious quote doesn't do my opinion of you any good.

I know huh, I'm both horrified for him and fascinated. I wonder if this is how watching a train wreck feels.

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RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/20/2010 4:35:05 PM   
FirmhandKY


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY
While Steel hasn't answered my question about which word he believes I'm playing with, my assumption is that it is the world "faith".

I also thought that Vincent eloquently expressed my position.

Yeah, and do you see how my responses to him relate to your incorrect claims of the "straw manning" done to you and other atheists?

Although, I really think we are at the point that it doesn't matter.  Except for vincent (and DCWoody, for a post or two), everyone on "your side" has exposed themselves as closed minded, defensive, and unwilling to actual discuss anything at all of merit.  You guys have all the answers already.

On the other hand, I, marie2, NorthernGent, MusicalMystery, tazzy, RCdc, Treasure, eyesopen and Elisabeth et al have tried to earnestly engage in an intellectual discussion on the issue.  And have been met with pretty much an absolutists, closed-minded brick wall.

Hell, I see little other than "fundamentalism" on your side of the issue, right now.  Which is exactly the place that you attempt to put us.

And, if you'll notice, not all of "our side" even claims to be religious, or even to believe in god.  But we have most of the open minds on our side.

If you really wish to discuss rather than peacock your beliefs, then engage openly. Otherwise, I'm outa here.

Firm


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RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? - 6/20/2010 4:48:02 PM   
Elisabella


Posts: 3939
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
Are you aware of the details of Newton's life?

What more could he have accomplished if he hadn't poisoned his brain and body with mercury pursuing alchemy? What more could he have discovered if he didn't spend the last decades of his life writing religious tracts?

Newton's supernatural beliefs certainly reduced the amount of actual science he did.


And Einstein's spiritual beliefs pushed him to work harder.



Also, in Newton's time, alchemy was considered a science and knowledge of herbs was considered supernatural. Just to put things in perspective, imagine what people in the year 2600 will have to say about relativity and superstring theory.

(in reply to Elisabella)
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