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xssve -> RE: Why do people think it's ok to strawman an atheist? (6/24/2010 6:21:41 PM)
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ORIGINAL: Moonhead
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ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
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ORIGINAL: Plasticine
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being a good person because you are motivated to be so out of your own intrinsic nature is something I am always impressed by....
You should not be impressed by me, you should be depressed for all those who cannot find it within themselves to be moral without an overseer.
I am not impressed by you...
I am impressed by people who are intrinsically motivated to be good people... whether or not you fit that description is for you decide.... I don't even know you....
It isn't that unreasonable a point, to be fair. I've always taken exception to this notion that it's impossible to have any moral sensibilities unless they're derived from a religion. That's deeply offensive, and an attempt to exclude atheists from any kind of moral authority, which is a shitty way to co-opt an argument. Surely if you think that this is all we'll ever get, that's more of an incentive to make an effort to treat other people properly, not less?
Precisely, and that, more often than not, is the strawman - a sort of attempt to copyright the word "morality" itself - similarly, "family values", and "values" in general, invariably assumed to be Christian values - it's always fascinating to watch a Libertarian conservative and an evangelical conservative argue - the Libertarian usually backs down, because it's just hard to come back from being told you have "no moral values", period, when in fact, they're just more carefully thought out and thus, harder to describe than your pre-packaged, off the shelf Christian "values".
Religious values, those that have not been secularized as having empirical value, are the essence of moral relativism - I can find you a half dozen different interpretations of the same scripture, often wildly divergent, like life and death divergent - a lot of it just seems like some weird, arbitrary sort of textualism - as far as I'm concerned, it's nothing but an RPG, like Gorean, that some folks take a little too seriously.
And if that sounds like an attack, it is, I fucking sick and tired of these cheap shots coming from the evangelical right - big billboard just down the street: "The Novel Idea That Babies are People Too" - big picture of a baby - not a blastocyst, like a 1 month old baby - fucking please - not only is this the height of deception, but these are the same people cheering the invasion of Iraq - take a look at What the Lord hath Wrought.
Now, lets talk about fucking values.
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