RE: newbie subs idea of what dominance is

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lally2 -> RE: newbie subs idea of what dominance is (6/19/2010 8:22:30 AM)
sigh)) i know we cant save the lemmings from being lemmings, just its a bit hard watching them leap off high buildings, the plus side is i spose that some of us were born with extra bounce back factor [:)] and yes i loved lilred's post and wrote to her on the other side - she helped me out of my funk infact [:)]

PeanutTigerinBox -> RE: newbie subs idea of what dominance is (6/19/2010 9:25:03 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lally2 quote: ORIGINAL: PeanutTigerinBox .and lol...indeed...when I get put into my place then I certainly know I earned it.....and in regards to pushing...well, if he doesn't have to show his dominant side to be in charge that he means what he says, what shows me then that he is dominant in the first place? is it about showing so much though. isnt it more about the guy instilling a willingness in you to do as he asks/expects/requires. if you push he'll push back, but so would a vanilla, so would anyone surely. when i pushed it was to get smacked down, but i wasnt always, often the guy im thinking of knew that was what i was after and just didnt play along. If I dont push then I can just follow orders from my cat and can stop looking for mr. right...anyone can do the talk...just not that many the walk... challenging a Dominants dominance would get old though, surely. it would be like them challenging youre submission - after a while youd start feeling that if he doesnt believe in you why bother submitting. Once I know he means what he says I get calmer and more obedient as I am far from being a masochist...however I need to be sure that this is the case as I don't trust myself over to someone blindly... i get that totally, consistancy is really really important, there has to be follow through, but why for you does it have to be a show of violent strength. what is that thing going on in you as a non-masso. being taken down can be hot, youve earned it sure, but its hot ticketty hot hot hot - but you can be taken down without it needing to come from you actually challenging his dominance. you can just say ' i need to be taken down' would that work as well for you - It isn't that much about challenging actually...not in general. When I meet a guy and he successfully showed me the boundaries then I don't dare to push much anymore as then I prefer best not to experience that side ever again, I am not someone who keeps challenging as such as that would bore myself as well, however I don't trust a dom blindly to be a dom just because he says so....in other situations it could be interpreted as challenging if I would try to get my way, however when I met Mr. A over here I knew soon not to dare to mess with him as it was clear that he won't have any of it...and he never raised his hand at me...did not have to. So there are different ways of showing boundaries and they don't have to include being violent. My current date can discipline more than I desire but I also know he is very creative in unpleasent non-physical punishments, so again, if I would dare to try to top him from the bottom I might end up even in a non-physical punishment which might potentially be far worse then a beating as it would last longer and might require more reflection from my side...it is not about violence for me. It can be hot with the right guy in the right situation, but I don't ask too often for it and when I receive it on a level more then I like I am more than happy to make sure not to piss him off again. In regards to non-maso...I had last year an event where I finally experienced that pain can be gorgeous...since then I know it can be .... with the right person... However, if I meet a guy who says a, b and c would be the consequences if d isnt done when he gets home then I would expect him to be serious about it (I tried to do d completely but overlooked some parts accidentially...and those parts remained there another few days)...consistancy i the key and if that isn't the case then the unhealthy battle can begin which is unlikely to work out. However, just blindly handing myself over and trusting him ain't working as after all it shows more about his personality when I can see how he responds to more difficult situations as when I wait for it until a day might come where I could be dependent on him being in charge.

osf -> RE: newbie subs idea of what dominance is (6/19/2010 4:31:35 PM)
I've talke to several girls that all they want to talk about is what will I do to them, will I do this or will I do that specific act, believe it or not it gets boring in a hurry. and some say they have been in 24/7 slave relationships for years.

gungadin09 -> RE: newbie subs idea of what dominance is (6/19/2010 5:48:02 PM)
Funny story. The first Dom i ever met was this really nice, thoughtful guy that used to come in to the coffeehouse every day. This was before i knew anything about submission. i guess He must have picked up some kind of vibe from me, though, because He kept trying to talk to me. He would come in on the nights i was working, and watch me work. i was a cashier, and i think He liked watching me cleaning things and serving the customers. For a long time, He kept trying to get my attention, but i ignored Him. i am suspicious of nice people-- and i was irritated by His interest in me. Like i said, i didn't know He was a Dom. He was just so nice, and respectful. i never would have imagined. Anyway, still unaware that He was a Dom, i fell for His friend, who was a total asshole. And then i started acting submissive to him. Which is pretty funny, actually, because He treated me like shit. He liked messing with my head, and eventually he let it slip that his friend was a Dom- just to see my reaction. i had pretty much given myself away as a sub, by that point, although no one had said anything about it. Eventually, this guy was such a jerk that i just quit the job (he was a regular customer there, and was telling all his friends that i was a sub, so they could come in and mess with me...). So, i quit. i always regretted how i treated the friend, because i realise now that He was interested in me as a sub, and He must have been a pretty good Dom. Hindsight... ah, yes. Novice subs (like me) start out with very skewed ideas of what a Dom is supposed to act like. Sorry, guys... pam

PeanutTigerinBox -> RE: newbie subs idea of what dominance is (6/19/2010 5:51:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: osf I've talke to several girls that all they want to talk about is what will I do to them, will I do this or will I do that specific act, believe it or not it gets boring in a hurry. and some say they have been in 24/7 slave relationships for years. funnily that aspect comes rather late in my communications...as first of all I am interesting in the personality of the Dom...and then...if he is able to handle me [:)] (by finding out more about him the 2nd part can get easily dropped when it is getting obvious that it won't be the case...because yep...its dull to talk about that stuff, that comes up once I consider to meet him, to get to know more about what I am potentially getting into).

DCWoody -> RE: newbie subs idea of what dominance is (6/19/2010 6:10:08 PM)
Women, particularly younger ones, going for arseholes....isn't really anything to do with bdsm, it's....normal. Not a particularly enlightening point I know, but.....reckon that's it. Arseholes get girls because they don't care about them, happy to be confident, bossy, trick them, lie to them, tell them whatever to get them into bed. To be sure subs will be more susceptible to that, and many arseholes are into topping, but....nothing unique to bdsm, just often happens happening to involve handcuffs.

dreamerdreaming -> RE: newbie subs idea of what dominance is (6/19/2010 6:19:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DCWoody Women, particularly younger ones, going for arseholes....isn't really anything to do with bdsm, it's....normal for those who have low self-esteem, or are just really clueless. Fixed to reflect my opinion. Thanks, DCWoody! [:)]

laurell3 -> RE: newbie subs idea of what dominance is (6/19/2010 6:23:34 PM)
I don't think it has anything to do with meaningless stereotypes about men or women. People enter the scene of both genders thinking some fantasy exists that will make their life all better. It ain't all that. After they realize that they start thinking with their heads just like we all did when we first started dating and look for someone that is good for them and not some ridiculous fantasy. Both genders do it. The Iamdomhearmeroar type puts on his bigboy pants and realizes he ain't all that, the damselindistress sub pulls her head out of her ass and realizes he ain't all that and she's stronger than she knows. In theory right? Or they come here to the forums and drive the rest of us nuts with their ridiculous theories.

dreamerdreaming -> RE: newbie subs idea of what dominance is (6/19/2010 11:27:41 PM)
My point was that BDSM need not be involved at all- thats generally a function of low self-esteem and/or cluelessness, when someone lets themself be treated like shit. Its not exclusive to women though, of course.

lally2 -> RE: newbie subs idea of what dominance is (6/20/2010 2:07:40 AM)
i absolutely agree it isnt just 'here' - but the potential 'here' is greater for a total mind fucking fuck up because of that free licence thingy going on and the fact that the newbie believes that they must submit to it cos their uberlord says they must and if they dont theyll get smacked down but thats what Ds is to them and possibly even what they want at that stage. so fine, - we all have to learn - and some of us (me [&o]) take a ridiculously long time working it out, but not everyone is as thick as me, so thats good too [:D] and of course there are those who absolutely want it, its their kink - so its all good. the thing is that i actually worked myself out ages ago, worked out what i wanted and why - it was the Doms i couldnt work out - for instance my D now started writing to me ages ago, but he came through as this happy, easy going, charming, warm person and i didnt 'recognise' his approach - the more stereotypical types were more obvious to me but in the end we didnt work out because id worked out what i wanted and realised i wasnt getting it. so in the end i realise now that it is the quietly confident types who have nothing to prove or any need to throw themselves around that are probably closer to the Dominant psyche - but many newbies arent looking for that anyway. they want a chest beating thug to drag them along by their hair because thats hot and gets to the point quicker. insta-fix basically.

juliaoceania -> RE: newbie subs idea of what dominance is (6/20/2010 7:27:24 AM)
quote: why is it that newbie subs inevitably end up with loud, selfish, abrasive, bully types who are not especially dominant, just good at throwing their weight around. not always but very often. I have never been involved with people like this, whether I was seeing dominants or vanilla men... I have no idea of what population of people that you are basing this on, but I would wonder if people involved in public play and their dating choices would be different from those of us who seek private sorts of interactions. In other words, perhaps it is the public display of "dominance" (which isn't very dominant) that is attracting these subs in public venues? Perhaps those of us that wouldn't seek at lifestyle events seek different sorts when we are first starting out? I was seeking someone that could be just as involved with my vanilla life as anything else....

juliaoceania -> RE: newbie subs idea of what dominance is (6/20/2010 7:57:14 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DCWoody Women, particularly younger ones, going for arseholes....isn't really anything to do with bdsm, it's....normal. Not a particularly enlightening point I know, but.....reckon that's it. Arseholes get girls because they don't care about them, happy to be confident, bossy, trick them, lie to them, tell them whatever to get them into bed. To be sure subs will be more susceptible to that, and many arseholes are into topping, but....nothing unique to bdsm, just often happens happening to involve handcuffs. This might be an astute observation....

TheLadyIsADomme -> RE: newbie subs idea of what dominance is (6/20/2010 8:34:47 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lally2 i absolutely agree it isnt just 'here' - but the potential 'here' is greater for a total mind fucking fuck up because of that free licence thingy going on and the fact that the newbie believes that they must submit to it cos their uberlord says they must and if they dont theyll get smacked down but thats what Ds is to them and possibly even what they want at that stage. so fine, Do you think the same holds true vice-versa (male subs and female doms)? It seems that quite often the expectation is that a Domme will be a full-on bitch, or she is too "nice", not "Domme-ly" enough, etc.

lally2 -> RE: newbie subs idea of what dominance is (6/20/2010 9:28:13 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TheLadyIsADomme quote: ORIGINAL: lally2 i absolutely agree it isnt just 'here' - but the potential 'here' is greater for a total mind fucking fuck up because of that free licence thingy going on and the fact that the newbie believes that they must submit to it cos their uberlord says they must and if they dont theyll get smacked down but thats what Ds is to them and possibly even what they want at that stage. so fine, Do you think the same holds true vice-versa (male subs and female doms)? It seems that quite often the expectation is that a Domme will be a full-on bitch, or she is too "nice", not "Domme-ly" enough, etc. youre side of things seems to have a more obvious dividing line between subs looking for thrills and subs looking for relationships. the ones looking for thrills are i suppose wanting to have their fantasies realised as well as taking away the responsibility of wanting that in the first place - so to be a bitch maybe helps them to submit (im guessing). if she's too nice then he will find it difficult to fall into role. whereas the relationship guys are looking for a woman to serve, respect and enjoy, who is strong and in control but doesnt need to be a bitch to draw his submission. im aware im generalising here, and so i apologise to anyone offended by my over generalising, but in a nutshell, lets say. im sure its similar, but from the female newbie sub aspect its not so much that their gender struggles with the concept and is more along the lines that they have this archetypal image of a big strong man sweeping them away and being a bit of a bastard. the bitch and the bastard obviously have their 'hot' factor for similar reasons. it facilitates submission for both the female newbie sub and the male sub looking for thrills. in fact up to a point in both situations it is taking away the responsibility of choice. neither wants the choice, both want it taken from them

jokker2385 -> RE: newbie subs idea of what dominance is (6/20/2010 9:33:12 AM)
As a Dom I demand obedience, that being said my personality is light hearted, shy and nervous, I really care my relationships are based on friendships and making sure that my sub understands how much I value them as individuals.

TheLadyIsADomme -> RE: newbie subs idea of what dominance is (6/20/2010 9:44:02 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lally2 youre side of things seems to have a more obvious dividing line between subs looking for thrills and subs looking for relationships. the ones looking for thrills are i suppose wanting to have their fantasies realised as well as taking away the responsibility of wanting that in the first place - so to be a bitch maybe helps them to submit (im guessing). if she's too nice then he will find it difficult to fall into role. whereas the relationship guys are looking for a woman to serve, respect and enjoy, who is strong and in control but doesnt need to be a bitch to draw his submission. the bitch and the bastard obviously have their 'hot' factor for similar reasons. it facilitates submission for both the female newbie sub and the male sub looking for thrills. in fact up to a point in both situations it is taking away the responsibility of choice. neither wants the choice, both want it taken from them Hi Lally2: I agree with this characterization. I think that the element of being taken out of one's comfort zone, of ceding responsibility, etc. is a big factor. The idea of encountering a force of personality stronger than your own, that can overwhelm you to the point of obeisance has been romaticized throughout history, of course, and still has a lot of appeal today. For me, though, I would prefer the "relationship guys", as you put it [;)], than someone who has made me solely an extension of their own fantasy.

lally2 -> RE: newbie subs idea of what dominance is (6/20/2010 2:04:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TheLadyIsADomme quote: ORIGINAL: lally2 youre side of things seems to have a more obvious dividing line between subs looking for thrills and subs looking for relationships. the ones looking for thrills are i suppose wanting to have their fantasies realised as well as taking away the responsibility of wanting that in the first place - so to be a bitch maybe helps them to submit (im guessing). if she's too nice then he will find it difficult to fall into role. whereas the relationship guys are looking for a woman to serve, respect and enjoy, who is strong and in control but doesnt need to be a bitch to draw his submission. the bitch and the bastard obviously have their 'hot' factor for similar reasons. it facilitates submission for both the female newbie sub and the male sub looking for thrills. in fact up to a point in both situations it is taking away the responsibility of choice. neither wants the choice, both want it taken from them Hi Lally2: I agree with this characterization. I think that the element of being taken out of one's comfort zone, of ceding responsibility, etc. is a big factor. The idea of encountering a force of personality stronger than your own, that can overwhelm you to the point of obeisance has been romaticized throughout history, of course, and still has a lot of appeal today. For me, though, I would prefer the "relationship guys", as you put it [;)], than someone who has made me solely an extension of their own fantasy. phew!! [:D] - i get a bit nervous and out of my depth on topics to do with Mistress/slave relationships. i think thats where the similarity ends in a way, with regard to fantasy. for the newbie sub and the D type i think it can often be fantasy fuelling fantasy. with a male sub looking for thrills, extending their fantasy needs onto a Domme is, as you say, not so appealing, unless of course the Domme shares the fantasy, but im guessing like the toilet seat guy theres a limiting factor going on there - so in other words - the relationship guys are the ones youre after because they want a healthy exchange. the female newbie subs are brim full of fantasy and urges like the thrill seeking male sub but within a relationship and havent really worked out how to seek a healthy exchange yet because theyre fantasy man prolly isnt looking for a healthy exchange - and so it goes round. in the end, in youre regard, you the Domme have a far greater handle on the fantasy fuelled guys, by just not going there - which is interesting. i wonder what it is then that is the difference between a Domme and a Dom with regard to fantasy fuelled subs.

leadership527 -> RE: newbie subs idea of what dominance is (6/20/2010 2:27:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TheLadyIsADomme I agree with this characterization. I think that the element of being taken out of one's comfort zone, of ceding responsibility, etc. is a big factor. The idea of encountering a force of personality stronger than your own, that can overwhelm you to the point of obeisance has been romaticized throughout history, of course, and still has a lot of appeal today. WOW! You know all along I've been wondering why Carol doesn't associate any particular feeling with being submissive to me and I think this just said it quite clearly. For Carol, pretty much her entire existence is "encountering a force of personality stronger than her own". So it's no big deal that my personality does that also. For her, that's just how life is.

TheLadyIsADomme -> RE: newbie subs idea of what dominance is (6/20/2010 2:41:46 PM)
Hi Jeff: Makes me think of that phrase "irresistible force meets immovable object". LOL

lally2 -> RE: newbie subs idea of what dominance is (6/20/2010 2:43:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TheLadyIsADomme Hi Jeff: Makes me think of that phrase "irresistable force meets immovable object". LOL which is oddly horney [8D]

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