Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

RE: The death penalty...does the method matter?


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: The death penalty...does the method matter? Page: <<   < prev  1 2 3 4 [5]
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: The death penalty...does the method matter? - 6/19/2010 4:29:30 AM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline
Eye witness testimony, especially as it regards strangers is totally flawed. It has been demonstrated to be so time and time again, most recently in an Open University/BBC broadcast last month where a bunch of people were subjected to a number of surprise scenarios over a period and then put through the normal police interviews and follow ups.

The group witnessed the same incidents, at the same time, together. Not one account of what happened agreed with any of the others and not one person was able to satisfactorily identify the perpetrators nor their parts in the incidents. In one incident some of the group were fitted with devices to track where they were looking at any moment, and even then when it could be shown they had looked perpetrators in the eye these witnesses failed to provide accurate accounts.

Meanwhile the numbers of successful appeals against convictions based on eye witness testimony has prompted a reevaluation of such evidence to the effect that its utility and application be treated alike to hearsay.

E

_____________________________

In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

(in reply to Aneirin)
Profile   Post #: 81
RE: The death penalty...does the method matter? - 6/19/2010 5:35:08 AM   
eyesopened


Posts: 2798
Joined: 6/12/2006
From: Tampa, FL
Status: offline
Of course the death penalty is not a deterrant to crime and it never was intended as such but I personally think the firing squad is the most humane method for the executioners, not the executed.  With the firing squad there is always a question as to whether you shot a the live round v the blank.  When you flip the switch and Ol' Sparky starts a-hummin' there's no doubt who caused the death of the convict.

What could act as a deterrant is to get rid of segregated populations in prison.  You wanna be a criminal, you wanna be a bad ass, you forfeit your right to live in this society and get to live in the prison society.  No protective custody, unless it's prior to conviction. 

There have been more than a few cases where I think "prison justice" would have been appropriate.


_____________________________

Proudly owned by InkedMaster. He is the one i obey, serve, honor and love.

No one is honored for what they've received. Honor is the reward for what has been given.

(in reply to BonesFromAsh)
Profile   Post #: 82
RE: The death penalty...does the method matter? - 6/19/2010 5:38:21 AM   
vincentML


Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

Eye witness testimony, especially as it regards strangers is totally flawed. It has been demonstrated to be so time and time again, most recently in an Open University/BBC broadcast last month where a bunch of people were subjected to a number of surprise scenarios over a period and then put through the normal police interviews and follow ups.

The group witnessed the same incidents, at the same time, together. Not one account of what happened agreed with any of the others and not one person was able to satisfactorily identify the perpetrators nor their parts in the incidents. In one incident some of the group were fitted with devices to track where they were looking at any moment, and even then when it could be shown they had looked perpetrators in the eye these witnesses failed to provide accurate accounts.

Meanwhile the numbers of successful appeals against convictions based on eye witness testimony has prompted a reevaluation of such evidence to the effect that its utility and application be treated alike to hearsay.

E


I have seen something similar to this on TV here, E.

But there may be other errors besides faulty eye-witness testimony in the pursuit of Justice. In the Rolando Cruz case which Jefff mentioned earlier from Chicago police misconduct, prosecutorial malfeasence, local politics (the chief prosecutor is an elected office), and defendent stupidity were also factors. Here is a brief description from the Innocence Project website:

Several months later, under pressure from the community and in the midst of an election year, the police picked up Alejandro Hernandez, who pointed them to Rolando Cruz for a small reward. The two continued to incriminate each other for cash rewards and petty benefits from the police — Hernandez was given $10,000 in reward money for making inculpatory statements against Cruz and a man named Stephen Buckley, who was not convicted.

The case against Cruz and Hernandez was based on alleged statements the two had made. The officers who had questioned Cruz and Hernandez, testified in court that the two had both made incriminating statements. Several witnesses gave suspicious testimony that Cruz and Hernandez had divulged to them that they had intimate knowledge of the crime. Neither had strong alibis. Finally, the most unsubstantiated and damning evidence was the testimony of the sheriff's detectives, who testified that Cruz had reported "visions" of the murder, and that these "visions" closely represented the details associated with the crime. Their testimony was admitted as evidence even though there had been no attempt to record the vision statement.

Cruz would eventually endure three trials and three convictions due to winning appeals with the help of Northwestern University's Larry Marshall and David Protess, who assigned their students to investigate the case. In September 1995, DNA tests showed that spermatozoa found near the crime scene could not have come from Cruz or Hernandez, and that a man named Brian Dugan could not be eliminated as a contributor. Prosecutors retried them, asserting that they could have been present at the crime. Cruz's defense team decided on a bench trial; Hernandez was to have a fourth jury trial. Before the judge gave his verdict in the Cruz case, a sheriff's department lieutenant recanted testimony he had given in previous trials.

On November 3, 1995, after both men had served, respectively, nearly 12 years on death row, both cases were dismissed and Cruz and Hernandez were set free. The court acquitted Cruz and dismissed Hernandez's case on the basis of the recanted testimony, the DNA evidence, and the lack of any corroborated evidence against them.

Brian Dugan has not been charged with the murder. His confession, made through hypothetical statements during a plea bargain for other crimes, could not be used against him.


Cripes, even the defendents cannot be trusted! However, stupidity should not warrant the death penalty, although I am sure some on here would think so.

_____________________________

vML

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

(in reply to LadyEllen)
Profile   Post #: 83
RE: The death penalty...does the method matter? - 6/19/2010 6:01:35 AM   
Aneirin


Posts: 6121
Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
Status: offline
.......But there may be other errors besides faulty eye-witness testimony in the pursuit of Justice. In the Rolando Cruz case which Jefff mentioned earlier from Chicago police misconduct, prosecutorial malfeasence, local politics (the chief prosecutor is an elected office), and defendent stupidity were also factors. Here is a brief description from the Innocence Project website:........

This is another reason why I distrust the judicial system in the case of capital punishment; politics. When politics becomes involved, then fairness goes out of the window, the justice system can be bent to suit political aims.

I base my oppinion on the fact that just as a leader of a country seems to need to instigate a war to improve their political and sometimes fiscal status, so also happens lower down the authoritarian chain. It is my understanding that scapegoats are sought to be made an example of to further the political aims of an accuser. A case of whip up a frenzy of public outrage and there be seen to act on it, come down hard and receive the popular vote.

What is basically a barbaric side show under the guise of  law and order.

< Message edited by Aneirin -- 6/19/2010 6:02:07 AM >


_____________________________

Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

(in reply to vincentML)
Profile   Post #: 84
RE: The death penalty...does the method matter? - 6/19/2010 6:13:49 AM   
Rule


Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: eyesopened
What could act as a deterrent is to get rid of segregated populations in prison.  You wanna be a criminal, you wanna be a bad ass, you forfeit your right to live in this society and get to live in the prison society.  No protective custody, unless it's prior to conviction. 

That is not Christian, but barbaric.

quote:

ORIGINAL: eyesopened
There have been more than a few cases where I think "prison justice" would have been appropriate.

That is barbaric as well.

(in reply to eyesopened)
Profile   Post #: 85
RE: The death penalty...does the method matter? - 6/19/2010 6:37:43 AM   
eyesopened


Posts: 2798
Joined: 6/12/2006
From: Tampa, FL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

quote:

ORIGINAL: eyesopened
What could act as a deterrent is to get rid of segregated populations in prison.  You wanna be a criminal, you wanna be a bad ass, you forfeit your right to live in this society and get to live in the prison society.  No protective custody, unless it's prior to conviction. 

That is not Christian, but barbaric.
quote:

ORIGINAL: eyesopened
There have been more than a few cases where I think "prison justice" would have been appropriate.

That is barbaric as well.


I'm not a Christian.  Is "prison justice" more barbaric than the death penalty?  How "Chrstian" are the crimes that would warrant a death penalty?

_____________________________

Proudly owned by InkedMaster. He is the one i obey, serve, honor and love.

No one is honored for what they've received. Honor is the reward for what has been given.

(in reply to Rule)
Profile   Post #: 86
RE: The death penalty...does the method matter? - 6/19/2010 7:46:35 AM   
flcouple2009


Posts: 2784
Joined: 1/8/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

quote:

ORIGINAL: eyesopened
What could act as a deterrent is to get rid of segregated populations in prison.  You wanna be a criminal, you wanna be a bad ass, you forfeit your right to live in this society and get to live in the prison society.  No protective custody, unless it's prior to conviction. 

That is not Christian, but barbaric.

quote:

ORIGINAL: eyesopened
There have been more than a few cases where I think "prison justice" would have been appropriate.

That is barbaric as well.



Sorry, some people have committed crimes that are so terrible they have taken away their right to live.  They deserve to die.

If that is barbaric, color me a barbarian.

(in reply to Rule)
Profile   Post #: 87
RE: The death penalty...does the method matter? - 6/19/2010 7:51:35 AM   
PeanutTigerinBox


Posts: 1624
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: flcouple2009

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

quote:

ORIGINAL: eyesopened
What could act as a deterrent is to get rid of segregated populations in prison.  You wanna be a criminal, you wanna be a bad ass, you forfeit your right to live in this society and get to live in the prison society.  No protective custody, unless it's prior to conviction. 

That is not Christian, but barbaric.

quote:

ORIGINAL: eyesopened
There have been more than a few cases where I think "prison justice" would have been appropriate.

That is barbaric as well.



Sorry, some people have committed crimes that are so terrible they have taken away their right to live. They deserve to die.

If that is barbaric, color me a barbarian.



Dito. Apart from that I think money could be spent wiser within the society than on feeding murderers over decades in prisons...I have no problem with the death penalty when it is watertight proven that s/he was the killer (eg due to DNA or trustworthy witness evidence) and the method doesn't matter to me...why should s/he get an easy going injection when they at times do the most barbaric acts on their victims...no pity from here...

< Message edited by PeanutTigerinBox -- 6/19/2010 7:53:19 AM >


_____________________________

RIP 08/09/07

aka Phoenixpower

one of my favourite songs :o) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_CuY4nMu8c&feature=related

(in reply to flcouple2009)
Profile   Post #: 88
RE: The death penalty...does the method matter? - 6/19/2010 8:06:46 AM   
Aneirin


Posts: 6121
Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: flcouple2009

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

quote:

ORIGINAL: eyesopened
What could act as a deterrent is to get rid of segregated populations in prison.  You wanna be a criminal, you wanna be a bad ass, you forfeit your right to live in this society and get to live in the prison society.  No protective custody, unless it's prior to conviction. 

That is not Christian, but barbaric.

quote:

ORIGINAL: eyesopened
There have been more than a few cases where I think "prison justice" would have been appropriate.

That is barbaric as well.



Sorry, some people have committed crimes that are so terrible they have taken away their right to live.  They deserve to die.

If that is barbaric, color me a barbarian.



Yes those in authority can decide a person has no right to life, but if a person wishes to end their life via suicide, that then becomes a criminal activity and makes the suicidee liable to incarceration. What is it only the law can decide if a person is to die, and if so what makes the law such an authority on these matters ?


_____________________________

Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

(in reply to flcouple2009)
Profile   Post #: 89
RE: The death penalty...does the method matter? - 6/19/2010 8:43:46 AM   
vincentML


Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

This is another reason why I distrust the judicial system in the case of capital punishment; politics. When politics becomes involved, then fairness goes out of the window, the justice system can be bent to suit political aims.

I base my oppinion on the fact that just as a leader of a country seems to need to instigate a war to improve their political and sometimes fiscal status, so also happens lower down the authoritarian chain. It is my understanding that scapegoats are sought to be made an example of to further the political aims of an accuser. A case of whip up a frenzy of public outrage and there be seen to act on it, come down hard and receive the popular vote.

What is basically a barbaric side show under the guise of  law and order.


Exactly!!! Our most notorious case of recent vintage was the Duke LaCrosse team accusations in North Carolina. The District Attorney, a white man, was running for re-election and in an ironic twist of racial politics ginned this up to garner votes from the black community. I did not search this Board but would not be suprised if it were a thread at the time. Hell, everything else is. The DA, Mike Nifong, won his election but in the end lost his law license and spent one day in jail after being labeled a "rogue prosecutor" by the State's Attorney General.



_____________________________

vML

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

(in reply to Aneirin)
Profile   Post #: 90
RE: The death penalty...does the method matter? - 6/20/2010 1:05:27 PM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead


quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

It would not matter to me. Dead is dead.

You'd be just as happy getting hung, drawn and quartered or crucified as you would to be shot, then?


Well first I would have to do something to warrant the death penalty, then they would have to reinstate it in Michigan. So I am not going to lose a lot of sleep over it. But if I were inclined to go some where and do something, the method of execution would not change my mind. If I were that stupid, I would probably be stupid enough to think I would not get caught.


Fair enough.

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to thishereboi)
Profile   Post #: 91
Page:   <<   < prev  1 2 3 4 [5]
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: The death penalty...does the method matter? Page: <<   < prev  1 2 3 4 [5]
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.078