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Capitalization and other grammar quirks - 6/20/2010 12:51:10 AM   
SocratesNot


Posts: 812
Joined: 5/17/2010
Status: offline 		I have noticed recently that, being influenced by the customs on this site and other BDSM sites,
I started using certain capitalization rules that are actually not prescribed by English grammar.
So I capitalize nouns (and sometimes even pronouns) referring to Dominants and I don't capitalize those that refer to submissives or slaves.

There are some examples:
Master/slave, M/s, Dominant/submissive, D/s, Master, Mistress, Dom, Domme, sub, subbie, slave, submale, subfemale, etc.

Other (more drastic) examples:
U/us, O/our, A/all, W/we, Y/you, E/everyone
He, Himself, She, Herself, Man, Woman (when refering to dominants)
he, she, man, woman (when referring to submissives)

Even more drastic examples:
self capitalization:
My, Me, Myself, Mine, etc... (dominants)
lowercasing proper names and pronound "I":
sarah, john, i, peter, hellen, etc... (submissives)
referring to oneself in plural  (We instead of I) -
We, Our, Ourselves, ...(dominants)
referring to oneself in third person:
it, this slave, ... (submissives)
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I adopted this custom, but is it justified?

Personally, I think that being Dominant or submissive is a function or position in a relationship.
Inside the relationship it is perfectly reasonable to use whatever rules of grammar you want as means of reinforcing the dynamic.
So, inside the relationship - I find it perfectly logical to capitalize the words referring to dominants and to lowercase the words referring to submissives.

For example, when a slave writes a letter to his Master - she can choose to capitalize words describing Him, and lowercase words describing herself.
That's fine. She can even choose to refer to herself as "it", or "this slave" - inside the dynamic of the relationship this is perfectly understandable.

---------------------------------------------------

As you have noticed, so far in this post I followed all those BDSM rules of capitalization.
In the rest of this post this will not be the case. The rest of this post is about using these rules OUTSIDE the relationship.
Even outside the relationship, I have no problem with people referring to themselves any way they like - capitalize it, lowercase it, use plural, use third person - whatever you feel is right for you.

However, I think that it is not justified to twist the rules of the grammar when referring to other people outside your own relationship on places such as forums, etc.

Why?

Because, I think that capitalization of the things that shouldn't be capitalized according to grammar implies extra respect, additional honor and respect which is beyond the basic respect that every human being should show to each other. I think that no one can earn such respect just because of being in the role of the dominant or just because he/she identifies as dominant. Having a certain role in a relationship or self-identification are not the things that warrant universal respect from other people.
Just because someone is master, it does not mean that he should be honored and respected. There are good masters and bad masters. Just because someone is master is not enough to grant him a capital M. Even this guy that starved his girl is a master. I think that he doesn't deserve a capital M. Also, there are masters that are abusers. Should they also be rewarded with capital M? I don't think so.
If they demand other people addressing them with capital letters it is still not enough for me to fulfill their request. Anyone can demand anything - but only if they deserve what they demand - I will fulfill their requests.

Also, lowercasing the things that are usually capitalized implies the lack of respect. Being submissive should never cause me to respect someone less. I think that submissives should be respected as much as dominants. Many of them excel in their submission. Many of them also excel in other areas of their life. So, lowercasing words and pronouns referring to them should not take place, IMO. However, in case of submissives, if they demand being addressed in lowercase - I will always respect their demand and fulfill it - because being addressed in lowercase, unlike capitalization, is not something that must be earned.

So - if a dominant requests being addressed in uppercase - I will do it if I feel they deserve it.
If a submissive requests being addressed in lowercase - I will always fulfill their request.

And finally - when it comes to talking in general - without having certain people in mind - I think it is best to follow official English grammar and this is what I will do in the future.

So, from now on, when referring to masters and dominants in general, without having a certain person in mind - I will not use capitalization.
From now on, unless I know who I am talking about all the dominants for me will be - doms, dommes, masters, mistresses, etc - without capitalization.
Also, I will never address the general public in forum as A/all, U/us, E/everyone, O/our, W/we, Y/you , ...
From now on, M/s will become m/s, and D/s will become d/s.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is just the convention that I will use in the future and I have no problems with other people adopting different conventions.
When it comes to me, personally, I prefer to be addressed according to official English grammar regardless of my role.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I would also like to ask other people how they feel about these issues.
What rules of capitalization do you prefer to use? Why is this important to you?
What are your thoughts abut specific rules of grammar and capitalization in the world of BDSM?

< Message edited by SocratesNot -- 6/20/2010 1:05:59 AM >

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Amicus Plato, sed magis amica veritas. - Aristotle
Plato is my friend, but truth is a better friend. - Aristotle
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RE: Capitalization and other grammar quirks - 6/20/2010 12:57:55 AM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline 		Like about 99% of the subjects you have raised this is a matter of personal taste especially when the sub/slave is collared. Not sure in which on line forum it started but was in full swing in the old MSN BDSM rooms and MSN Gor where to identiofy people easier the sub/slaves used lower case. The one I hate the most is the W/we Y/you ad nausium. Personally I place this one step above txt talk and tend not to read too much of it unless I need to to reply to something. I've been known in a flame war to totally ignore capitalization.... heh and typos too  lol


_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to SocratesNot)
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RE: Capitalization and other grammar quirks - 6/20/2010 1:08:20 AM   
myotherself


Posts: 7157
Joined: 3/9/2006
From: The cold bit of the UK
Status: offline 		I tend to follow the rules of good English grammar (as much as possible).

I don't do 'slashy speak' and I won't capitalise unnecessarily.

But then again, I'm not a slave, and this stuff isn't my kink. I have absolutely no problem in others following their own rules and protocols, it's just not relevant to me.

Having said that though, I'm much less likely to want to converse online with someone who uses a mixture of slashy speak and text speak - it makes my head hurt

_____________________________

There's nowt so queer as folk


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RE: Capitalization and other grammar quirks - 6/20/2010 1:31:01 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		Often, when I come home from a munch or a play party, I'll spend just a few minutes reading the boards before I take Myself off to bed.  Since I am entirely tooooooo happy at the moment from My earlier activities of paddling a wonderful boy's ass, I'm going to save Myself the trouble of writing something original again.  The same topic comes around fairly frequently, so it's easy enough to just cut and paste one of My own personal favorite answers to the all too similar question:

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

Greetings Bella.  I have to admit, I've been waiting for this topic to come around again.  It's been some time.

I am one of the greatest offenders on these boards.  I am exactly what pisses some people off about it.  I've had many people tell Me that I drive them nuts about My writing style.  Yet, over and over, these same people who proclaim the loudest that they skip 'improper capitalization' posts, will tell Me that something that I have said resonated with them.  That capital "M" or small letter "c" when speaking about My boy seems to matter so much less when they find the content of the writing worthwhile.

You ask valid questions.  Ones that I am more than happy to answer.

What does it mean to Me?  Truthfully, it is reflective of Me in many ways.  Not just as a Dominant woman, but also the dynamic that is a part of My life.  It is My form of self expression.  I see it no different as times that I speak in ways that are from being a part of coming up in a small town (using such terms as "folks" and the like) or any other part of My personality. 

When did I start?  I'd have to say about four years ago.  I didn't come into this lifestyle through the net.  I saw the practice.  I made it My own.  I happen to like it. 

Is there another reason?  Yes, and thank you for asking. I've had clip for about two years now, and I encourage the same writing style for him.  When requiring him to use the lower case for himself, I want it to be a reminder for him in his submission.  Some would scoff at that, but I have found it a highly effective method.

So, I'm sure the question remains.  Why should I feel to do the same in kind?  My answer lies in returning a question to you.

Have you ever participated in a ritual or protocol where you were required to do a certain thing, but did not receive the feedback in return?  Where you displayed submission, but the Dominant did not show their response?  That you were told to offer yourself in some way, yet they did not take it?

This subject is the same as these.  If I tell My boy that something is important to reflect his submission, how can I not believe the same reflects My Dominance?  If it has been put in place to have significance to him, how can it not have significance to Me?  Would that not, in fact, make Me a hypocrite?

To those who would say, do not inflict your dynamic on them, I return and say it is just as well.  As much as I enjoy many out there, none of you, not all of CM, are more important to Me as My little poly family.

Take Me or leave Me as you will.  The decision in this is My own.



With that, I'll say goodnight to CM land, ever so glad that the top space that I'm experiencing at the moment makes Me really not care about stuff like this.


_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to myotherself)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: Capitalization and other grammar quirks - 6/20/2010 1:39:32 AM   
MissCake


Posts: 149
Joined: 9/18/2008
Status: offline 		Leopold Von Sacher-Masoch saw fit to capitalize proper nouns and use lowercase for pronouns.  Justification of the degradation of standards of grammar reminds me of 1984.

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RE: Capitalization and other grammar quirks - 6/20/2010 1:47:09 AM   
MissShey


Posts: 71
Joined: 1/25/2009
Status: offline
Capitalization of proper nouns is correct in German. But not in English.

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Profile   Post #: 6
RE: Capitalization and other grammar quirks - 6/20/2010 1:55:21 AM   
SocratesNot


Posts: 812
Joined: 5/17/2010
Status: offline
quote:

Capitalization of proper nouns is correct in German. But not in English.


Wrong.
In German ALL nouns are capitalized, not just proper ones.
In English, all PROPER nouns are usually capitalized, but not OTHER nouns.


_____________________________

Amicus Plato, sed magis amica veritas. - Aristotle
Plato is my friend, but truth is a better friend. - Aristotle

(in reply to MissShey)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Capitalization and other grammar quirks - 6/20/2010 1:59:09 AM   
SocratesNot


Posts: 812
Joined: 5/17/2010
Status: offline
quote:

Leopold Von Sacher-Masoch saw fit to capitalize proper nouns and use lowercase for pronouns.  Justification of the degradation of standards of grammar reminds me of 1984.


Me too. I agree wholeheartedly.


_____________________________

Amicus Plato, sed magis amica veritas. - Aristotle
Plato is my friend, but truth is a better friend. - Aristotle

(in reply to SocratesNot)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Capitalization and other grammar quirks - 6/20/2010 2:00:41 AM   
AQuietSimpleMan


Posts: 1410
Joined: 11/15/2009
Status: offline 		In short, I just want you to know there is no sweet spot in the world of BDSM where everyone agrees on everything. I would suggest that you take a little time and just get a feel for what YOU feel on these matters and then when you don't get how something works for you ask for input that way. So far it seems you are looking for topics that everyone agrees on. I do not believe there is one.

QSM

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"If a Key opens many locks, then it is a Master Key, If a Lock is opened by lots of keys, then it is a Shitty Lock"

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RE: Capitalization and other grammar quirks - 6/20/2010 2:03:07 AM   
MissCake


Posts: 149
Joined: 9/18/2008
Status: offline 		In English, you capitalized the words German and English.  Those would be proper nouns.  How silly of you MissShey.  (MissShey would also be a proper noun, capitalized, in English.)

(in reply to MissShey)
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RE: Capitalization and other grammar quirks - 6/20/2010 2:12:22 AM   
myotherself


Posts: 7157
Joined: 3/9/2006
From: The cold bit of the UK
Status: offline 		To be honest, I think this falls under the YKINMKBIOK....

If the dominant wants capitalisations and slashes, then that's what s/he gets from their sub/slave/whatever.

Everyone else is free to do what they please. It may not be correct grammar, but what does it really matter? As long as you are understandable and understood, then there's not an issue. If anyone else dislikes the way you write, they are free to move on.

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There's nowt so queer as folk


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Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Capitalization and other grammar quirks - 6/20/2010 2:38:47 AM   
sunshinemiss


Posts: 17673
Joined: 11/26/2007
Status: offline 		Well, funny timing. I was just writing my grammar lesson on capitalization! Fancy that!

Here are my thoughts:

Generally, I don't care.

I will tend to capitalize names as noted on the boards here although I don't get my knickers in a knot about it. In real life, I prefer my full name to be lower case. If it was good enough for e.e. cummings, it's good enough for me. In the end, it's easier to write in lower case, and it's good time management. I used to sign my name over 100 times per day, and those few extra minutes actually meant I could get more work done. Meh.

I do on these boards make a distinction at times between a man (the male of the species) and a Man (a MAYUN)... That's more about being swoony than much else, though. (eye roll at my own silly self)

Now, because I'm teaching grammar, I try to make sure I always use proper grammar and capitalization at work. How will they learn if I don't model what I teach?

Here on the boards? Timing, tiredness, irritation level all matter.

best,
sunshine



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Yes, I am a wonton hussy... and still sweet as 3.14

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RE: Capitalization and other grammar quirks - 6/20/2010 2:39:40 AM   
lally2


Posts: 2621
Joined: 4/16/2009
Status: offline 		it is infact the thinking going on in my head really - nothing to do with whether this is cyber or not.  in my head, my Dom has a capital letter attached to Him - im not sure if it could matter less to Him, but it feels right to me.  - ive had Masters and Dominants who clearly expected that level of respect and one asked me to make sure i always used a capital letter when refferring to Him, (and as you can see that has stuck fast, but i have no reason not to, though im sure He will never read this thread)





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So all I have to do in order to serve him, is to work out exactly how improbable he is, feed that figure into the finite improbability generator, give him a fresh cup of really hot tea ... and turn him on!

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RE: Capitalization and other grammar quirks - 6/20/2010 4:10:41 AM   
myotherself


Posts: 7157
Joined: 3/9/2006
From: The cold bit of the UK
Status: offline 		beautifully put, lally

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There's nowt so queer as folk


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RE: Capitalization and other grammar quirks - 6/20/2010 5:08:12 AM   
Aileen1968


Posts: 6062
Joined: 12/12/2007
From: I miss Shore, New Jersey
Status: offline 		I'm a big fan of proper grammar. I find the use of strange capitalization and slashy speak ridiculous.
It screams of online only for me.

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RE: Capitalization and other grammar quirks - 6/20/2010 6:20:22 AM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline 		FR

I don't like the practice, and I do make fun of it, at times. However, there are a very, very few folks that use some form of "kink speak", that I DO like, and respect, like LadyPact, or beth. My ridicule does not go out to them.

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Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

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RE: Capitalization and other grammar quirks - 6/20/2010 7:19:40 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		I use proper grammar rules unless I find there is a communicative purpose to adopting a different approach. In my opinion slashy speak does not aid the communicative process, so I don't do it.

I now find myself writing stuff with my cell (emails and microblogging) so I often don't cap things correctly...

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Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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RE: Capitalization and other grammar quirks - 6/20/2010 7:23:19 AM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline 		it depends on how lazy I'm feeling or what I'm talking about. I have no strict rules about it one way or the other. I will capitalize Him or Master when talking about my own but otherwise it is whatever my fingers feel like typing.

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Capitalization and other grammar quirks - 6/20/2010 7:27:59 AM   
UniqueRaven


Posts: 1237
Joined: 9/30/2009
From: Austin, TX
Status: offline 		i'll post here simply because i am one of the ones who also adjusts capitalization in my writing.

i don't use "slashy speak" - never have - but i do use the lowercase "i" (obviously) as well as a few other capitalizations, such as "Owner." i've done this for about 8 years now.

Honestly i do it because it means something to me - that's all there is too it. i don't see it as exceptionally harder to read, and it isn't intended to rub my kink in someone's face. i'm actually very hard core about other things, such as proper grammar, and spelling - the capitalization is about open and honest expression when i use a lowercase "i", and that's really it.

i write this way on my blog as well, and get lots of readers and subscribers (which makes me happy) - i think the easiest thing for me to do is paste the excerpt here from it about my writing style:

"You will notice in my writing style i use a lowercase “i” for myself – and sometimes some other non-conventional capitalizations, such as “Owner.” This is simply my acknowledgement of my place as a consensual slave and a mental reminder to myself of who, and what, i am in this world, and to my Owner specifically. And yes, i do call him “my” Owner – this is for simplicity in reading and not meant to imply any specific relationship dynamic. There are many opinions on how slaves should write, and this is, simply, what is best for me."

_____________________________

"My life has no purpose, no direction, no aim, no meaning, and yet I'm happy. I can't figure it out. What am I doing right?" ~Snoopy (Charles Schultz)

My blog is at http://takinghishand.wordpress.com

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Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Capitalization and other grammar quirks - 6/20/2010 7:28:54 AM   
Toppingfrmbottom


Posts: 6528
Joined: 6/7/2009
Status: offline 		When you make your posts please don't put long lines of ..................... It messes up the screen and makes you have to scroll left to right just to read the message, and they're not really needed. You can differentiate between different  points by using color or font, and it won't distort the screen dimensions.
quote:

ORIGINAL: SocratesNot


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Profile   Post #: 20
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