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Inaccurate Info - 6/20/2010 4:02:28 AM   
sunshinemiss


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Hello everyone,
I've been following the ana/mia thread and a couple of other threads here. I've put out my view point and there is no discussion in my mind. I'm pretty clear where I stand about mental health issues. There are many things that I am pretty flexible and open and do-your-own-thing-ish. There are some, though, where there is an absolute line for me.

If someone is in harm's way, yes, I will intervene. Yes, I will do what I can in whatever way I can which doesn't harm me. There is a certain harm assessment I would do in regards to myself and those around me. I wouldn't necessarily intervene if a man had a gun held to someone else's head, but I sure would call the police if I could, distract him, and I would intervene physically if the moment came and the risk was worth it. I've been trained to do that, though. If it was someone military, heck no. They are way more trained than I am. I'm just a little old lady with a few self-defense skills at that point.

When there are threads with blatant inaccurate information being touted, I have often felt it was my duty as a mental health professional to clarify if no one else did. I have thought of it as people being in harms way. I see it as rather like real life in which I have been known to slip a domestic violence hotline phone number in a woman's purse or to hide someone when I could. Couldn't solve the issue, but could give info and support. Some people would call me judgmental, and I can live with that.

The internet has created a whole new world of information - accurate and not.

Where is the line for you as far as clearing up inaccurate information? Is there a line?

Am I the only one who thinks about this stuff?

best,
sunshine

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RE: Inaccurate Info - 6/20/2010 6:12:34 AM   
barelynangel


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Sunshine, i just have a curiosity question since you brought it up and indicate it means something ---  what licenses and in what State's do you hold in mental health professions?

angel

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RE: Inaccurate Info - 6/20/2010 6:26:51 AM   
bluefireeyez


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sunshine- Yes, I do think about it as well. I also work as a mental health professional and often wonder about some of the information being given. There are many pieces of information that people tend to skew into what they think is right and not fact. (I am not stating just here...but also with those I know in person). I do the best I can to give them the correct information, or the source to find the correct information. I think it is good when someone offers their information which is true and accurate. However, I think that some people do not want to listen to it either.

barely- One does not have to have a liscence to work in the mental health field. There are liscenced and unliscenced therapists. The biggest difference (aside from passing a large exam) is one can charge more than another. Also, social workers, counselors, and psychologists can all do the same type of work.


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RE: Inaccurate Info - 6/20/2010 6:29:16 AM   
sirsholly


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quote:

Where is the line for you as far as clearing up inaccurate information? Is there a line?

Am I the only one who thinks about this stuff?
i think about it all the time.

As far as clearing up the inaccurate info...i will attempt to clear inaccuracies in the event it is directly harmful. If there is a situation that i think is very dangerous i take it off the boards and to a c-mail.

You know as well as i do Sunny that the internet is a difficult medium for communication. Mental health professionals are visual a lot of the time (i am highly so) and i find it nearly impossible to have confidence in an assessment with no visualization.

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RE: Inaccurate Info - 6/20/2010 6:37:26 AM   
barelynangel


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Bluefireeyes, it appears you missed my signature or just decided to ignored it  -- Please call me angel or barelynangel. Thanks        I would appreciate the courtesy of NOT shorting my nickname. 

i always see the "i am a mental health professional" and i presumed this meant they are licensed.  To me, that exam means  a lot, it means you are able to meet state requirements to practice but more so you have CMEs or continuing education you are required to maintain every year.  I presume licensed therapists etc are required to maintain continuing education even if they aren't medical doctors, yes?

Don't people find it odd that in a profession that seems very indepth and very information based and study based that they allow people to practice without a license?  To me the therapists etc to me should be licensed, just as people in the medical professions are required to be, especially with more and more people finding themselves needing help in this area of health.

I guess to me i would put more weight and credibility on a licensed professional rather than someone who isn't.  Just out of curiousity, to be unlicensed does one have to meet any State requirements or just call onesself one because they like the profession?

I've never looked into this profession for care so i really don't know what being unlicensed means as far as education, requirements etc.  Based on the topic, to me, that is important as to credibility of a person yes?  I mean if you are going to state someone is wrong and you aren't licensed, isn't it kind the same thing -- i.e., unlicensed does the same type of research as a layman working in the profession also and isn't there MANY different areas of study in mental health so don't many people specialize? 

Its not really a hijack because i think in order to correct information, who is really qualified?


angel

< Message edited by barelynangel -- 6/20/2010 6:49:06 AM >


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RE: Inaccurate Info - 6/20/2010 6:49:02 AM   
bluefireeyez


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Yes, I did miss your signature line...but that was also NOT where my focus was. I was simply trying to address the OP's question and thought I would try to help answer yours as well.

I believe they are required to get CE, regardless, best practice would suggest it. A test certainly means somethings and not others. One can go through all of the same schooling as another, but simply not want to get liscenced for insurance purposes. Where I work, they encourage us to go to seminars, workshops, and trainings as much as possible. These are the same as the ones the liscenced professionals go to, so there truly is no shortage of knowledge. And anyone working in the field is going to have a much better understanding of things than someone working in another field.

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RE: Inaccurate Info - 6/20/2010 6:57:53 AM   
sirsholly


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quote:

i always see the "i am a mental health professional" and i presumed this meant they are licensed. To me, that exam means a lot, it means you are able to meet state requirements to practice but more so you have CMEs or continuing education you are required to maintain every year. I presume licensed therapists etc are required to maintain continuing education even if they aren't medical doctors, yes?

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there are different rules in different states. I was required to attend a certain amt of continuing education classes of my choice in my field per assigned period by the hospital where i worked, and these hours far exceeded the amt mandated by the state.


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RE: Inaccurate Info - 6/20/2010 6:58:18 AM   
sunshinemiss


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

quote:

Where is the line for you as far as clearing up inaccurate information? Is there a line?

Am I the only one who thinks about this stuff?
i think about it all the time.

As far as clearing up the inaccurate info...i will attempt to clear inaccuracies in the event it is directly harmful. If there is a situation that i think is very dangerous i take it off the boards and to a c-mail.

I'm with you on this holly. I do the same thing. (great minds!)

You know as well as i do Sunny that the internet is a difficult medium for communication. Mental health professionals are visual a lot of the time (i am highly so) and i find it nearly impossible to have confidence in an assessment with no visualization.


I agree although there are some things people say and the way they respond that I think we can infer somewhat. While a diagnosis might not be in order, there are certain patterns that can be obvious. It certainly colors the writing. I like to think I can see that color - if not right away, eventually.

For me, I would get into... I don't know what to call it except "the zone" where I was so in tune with what was happening - it was like how I've read artists and athletes work - they get so amazingly focused and almost in a trance. Particularly in a group setting, family therapy, that kind of thing, I'd just get really in the moment... like my senses hummed or something. It was about being totally and fully present. I will say... I kind of miss that. But teaching allows me to get in that mindset somewhat when I have smaller classes. The larger ones - not so easy.

Anyway, I'm about to watch the end of The Way We Were (there was a doomed relationship).

Best,
sunshine





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RE: Inaccurate Info - 6/20/2010 7:02:13 AM   
barelynangel


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There is a difference yes between encouraging and requiring yes?  Licensed professionals are required to maintain their continuing education or they lose their license, yes?  What about people who are part of the field but as a patient rather than a working person?

I see people post on boards like these who are patients who know a hell of a lot more about their illness etc than most general pratitioners.  YEs i am a license advocate because this field is becoming way to involved and deep for people to just be "encouraged" to contining education and such.

Are unlicensed therapists supervised by a licensed one sorta like a physcian assistant?  Is there a way to review unlicensed therapists or a data base that maintains who they are, complaints, need for review because of patient complaints etc? 

thanks for explaining - i work with doctors on med mal cases and that is kinda what i am going on, all the ways a doctor is followed because of that license (i.e., the State, the Board of Health, CME's) to me that license is a protective measure for patients as well as an indication of requirements passed for the doctors.

angel


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RE: Inaccurate Info - 6/20/2010 7:09:40 AM   
barelynangel


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there are different rules in different states. I was required to attend a certain amt of continuing education classes of my choice in my field per assigned period by the hospital where i worked, and these hours far exceeded the amt mandated by the state.

***************  Yes one day i will get my puter fixed wherein i can quote again.


Holly, are you required by the State also?   Yes i can see a hospital doing so to protect its ass legally.  In Med Mal cases everything gets called into question about the doctor/nurse/physican assistant and in med mal cases they bloody well list EVERY who ever spoke to the patient on the complaint.  But to me it also benefits the hospital and its patients and staff.  (sorry my first focus is usually law reasons lol).

So with all the information out there, especially if they are reputable studies etc or articles people are reading, how does one decipher between what is correct and what is not?  I mean in law, there are two sides and EACH side offers law that benefits its arguments.  The judge tends to weigh same and determine which side wins but judges decide differently which is why there is a lot of case law which is continued to be used as it goes up the appeal to supreme courts.   ALSO, i should add, we get "experts" (Doctors if the case is against the doctor etc), who will testify depending on the case regarding causation or standard of care etc, and the other side will have experts that will rebut our experts and ours theirs and state support for their side.

What i guess i am saying is medicine (and i consider mental health a medical area) there are two sides to every reasoning, every procedure, every idea or what will work etc.   Isn't mental health the same?

Can maybe the OP or others give us some idea on how you determine what is accurate and what isn't?  grins cause if its anything like law -- its simply a matter of personal decision of what to use in certain matters.

angel

< Message edited by barelynangel -- 6/20/2010 7:14:55 AM >


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RE: Inaccurate Info - 6/20/2010 7:19:37 AM   
sirsholly


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quote:

ORIGINAL: barelynangel

There is a difference yes between encouraging and requiring yes?  Licensed professionals are required to maintain their continuing education or they lose their license, yes?  What about people who are part of the field but as a patient rather than a working person?
it depends on the state and or the employer. If i did not meet my employers requirements, i was suspended until i did so (never happened, btw). The state will not pull the license of one that fails to meet the requirements, but will not renew and put it into inactive status.

Are you asking what happens if a licensed professional seeks mental help? So what if they do...it is a hard job. Many employers require a mental health check-up.
quote:


I see people post on boards like these who are patients who know a hell of a lot more about their illness etc than most general pratitioners.
I am not sure if you do or not, but i have no desire to convince you otherwise. What you DO see from mental health professionals is common sense. I am not permitted by the state in which i practice to make a diagnosis. To do so would put my license on the line. I also do not hand out advice on a random basis for the same reason, and i am not alone.

quote:

YEs i am a license advocate because this field is becoming way to involved and deep for people to just be "encouraged" to contining education and such. 
State your complaint to the state in which you reside.

quote:

Are unlicensed therapists supervised by a licensed one sorta like a physcian assistant?
i am licensed and have never been associated with anyone who was not. If they are independent i would assume they are subject to review by the licensing board.
quote:

Is there a way to review unlicensed therapists or a data base that maintains who they are, complaints, need for review because of patient complaints etc? 
Contact the state licensing board and go from there




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RE: Inaccurate Info - 6/20/2010 7:23:13 AM   
sirsholly


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quote:

ORIGINAL: barelynangel

there are different rules in different states. I was required to attend a certain amt of continuing education classes of my choice in my field per assigned period by the hospital where i worked, and these hours far exceeded the amt mandated by the state.

***************  Yes one day i will get my puter fixed wherein i can quote again.


Holly, are you required by the State also?   Yes i can see a hospital doing so to protect its ass legally.  In Med Mal cases everything gets called into question about the doctor/nurse/physican assistant and in med mal cases they bloody well list EVERY who ever spoke to the patient on the complaint.  But to me it also benefits the hospital and its patients and staff.  (sorry my first focus is usually law reasons lol).
The state requires a certain number of hours to renew my license. The hosp required a lot more than the state.




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RE: Inaccurate Info - 6/20/2010 7:29:58 AM   
kdsub


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I know nothing of the mental health profession but I would think it takes more than a few lines of text in a chat room to determine the need for intervention in another’s life.

In fact I can see where this over the internet psychoanalyzing could be harmful to fragile minds.

Too often people think they have the right to determine who is mentally ill and who needs professional help. There are many functioning, happy, healthy, people with mental illnesses and it is none of my business if the get treatment or not.

I am all for a well worded private message of concern but that is as far as it should go in this public arena.

Please understand this is not a personal attack I understand and respect your concern for your fellow man... It is just an opinion.

Butch

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RE: Inaccurate Info - 6/20/2010 7:32:39 AM   
sirsholly


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quote:

What i guess i am saying is medicine (and i consider mental health a medical area) there are two sides to every reasoning, every procedure, every idea or what will work etc. Isn't mental health the same?

Can maybe the OP or others give us some idea on how you determine what is accurate and what isn't? grins cause if its anything like law -- its simply a matter of personal decision of what to use in certain matters.
Two sides? No...never. Whereas one may assume the law is two sided or black and white, it really is not, is it? If it was, there would be no need for arbitration and half the judicial system. Every situation is unique and that liberty is also allowed to every patient.

The medical field, all aspects, is an inexact science. The mental health field is more so. You are not dealing with perfect textbook examples in the mental health field but rather with unique individuals who deserve to be dealt with on an individual basis.


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RE: Inaccurate Info - 6/20/2010 7:35:31 AM   
BonesFromAsh


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss

The internet has created a whole new world of information - accurate and not.

Ain't that the truth.  We've become a group of Wikipedia experts.  I take what I find on the internet, and CM in particular, with a grain of salt.  There have been many threads, usually diet or health related ones, that will have inaccurate info.  The most recent one was on the Ask a Master forum where a person told the OP, who wanted to bruise but couldn't, to take a regiment of baby asprin for a certain number of days to thin the blood.  While baby asprin does thin the blood, it can cause other complications depending on the patient's medicial history.  Incomplete information is just as dangerous as inaccurate.

Where is the line for you as far as clearing up inaccurate information?

There have been times I've posted correct information, along with the appropriate links, when the inaccuracy was blatant.  Most of the time, though, I leave it to the reader to use their own brain power.

Is there a line?

My personal line depends on how involved I want to become with the online discussion (We're talking online, right?)  I don't see it as a duty to correct people, even when it is blatant and I may have some expertise in that particular area.  
To be honest, in the past, I have tried that approach and it backfired in my face because people called into question my personal/professional experience.  I don't feel the need to justify myself and my career choice/certification with online strangers.  In order to maintain my privacy, which I value more than my need to post information, I have chosen to avoid certain discussions.

Am I the only one who thinks about this stuff?

No, you're not.  Again, I guess it depends on how involved you want to be with the topic at hand.


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RE: Inaccurate Info - 6/20/2010 7:38:58 AM   
barelynangel


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Okay to clarify, Holly, you are a nurse right -- not a mental health professional?  

So what's to say that what others are speaking about isn't common sense?   I mean the medical field and i presume the mental health field is full of all types of contradicting information.  And we all know common sense is a very arbitrary word.  Also, not all mental health professionals use common sense just like the people discussing it don't always.  So sorry i don't agree with your general statement that the mental health professionals are all using common sense because it indicates everyone else out side of them aren't.

No, i wasn't asking if there were medical professionals seeking mental health help -- what that sentence means is --- what about the people who are "part of the field" simply by being a patient who has studied, researched, etc about their particular illness.   There are people who speak about their illnesses who have better information than doctors etc because of their research etc about their illness. 

Holly i am not asking where to go nor am i making a complaint, i am asking questions of the people who say they are mental health professionals.  They should know this information, yes?  IF unlicensed therapists are able to be tracked as licensed ones are etc.    

***** Quote by Holly *****
I am not permitted by the state in which i practice to make a diagnosis. To do so would put my license on the line. I also do not hand out advice on a random basis for the same reason, and i am not alone.
***************

YES.  That is a very important concept that i think many times is a little less stringent in the mental health professionals.  I cannot decipher if unlicensed therapists are allowed to diagnosis.

anyway, this thread seemed to be the place to bring the questions i've had regarding the mental health profession because to me that is important when trying to correct inaccurate information.   Is it really inaccurate or is it a matter of opinion? 

angel

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What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
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RE: Inaccurate Info - 6/20/2010 7:43:44 AM   
sirsholly


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I know nothing of the mental health profession but I would think it takes more than a few lines of text in a chat room to determine the need for intervention in another’s life.

In fact I can see where this over the internet psychoanalyzing could be harmful to fragile minds.

Too often people think they have the right to determine who is mentally ill and who needs professional help. There are many functioning, happy, healthy, people with mental illnesses and it is none of my business if the get treatment or not.

I am all for a well worded private message of concern but that is as far as it should go in this public arena.

Please understand this is not a personal attack I understand and respect your concern for your fellow man... It is just an opinion.

Butch


Butch...i said this a few posts ago and what you just said reiterates. It is nearly impossible for any mental health professional to assess over the internet and it takes a fool to try.
quote:

the internet is a difficult medium for communication. Mental health professionals are visual a lot of the time (i am highly so) and i find it nearly impossible to have confidence in an assessment with no visualization.


Sunnys point was more along the lines of addressing the obvious misconceptions. For example, if you were to respond to the spouse of a suicidal individual with the misconception "Hey...if they are VERBALIZING intent, they are just seeking attention." you can rest assured i would jump in (on the forums) and do my best to correct it (using the forums because no one should walk away with that thought as a fact).



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RE: Inaccurate Info - 6/20/2010 7:45:48 AM   
littlewonder


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online I will throw out the correct info and then let them do with it what they will..take it or leave it. I don't put a lot of effort to anything online...just not worth my time since it's just online. I don't know any of these people in real life.

In real life, I will throw out the info and if they take it, great. If not then I will tell them not to come back to me to complain when they realize I was right. I walk away. I can't change people. I don't try to change people. I don't try to convince people.

I'm of the opininion that they're all big girls and boys and can take care of themselves. If they fuck up well then that's their problem, not mine.

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RE: Inaccurate Info - 6/20/2010 7:47:35 AM   
barelynangel


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Two sides? No...never. Whereas one may assume the law is two sided or black and white, it really is not, is it? If it was, there would be no need for arbitration and half the judicial system. Every situation is unique and that liberty is also allowed to every patient.


Umm yes Holly its TWO sides - i should clarify in litigation - you have the PLAINTIFFS and the DEFENDANTS in most cases.  I never said it was black and white in fact i stated its just the opposite.  The Plaintiffs present case law for their arguments when before the judge and the Defendants present theirs.  grins, though yes you do your damnest to compare fault.  However, in the end, it comes down to convincing a jury that what you did was not negligent or whatever the complaint states.   The rest is simply trying to assess damages and who is MORE at fault.    IN the basic concept, there is a Motion by a party usually based on a statute that allows same, the opposing parties (even other co-whatever who is filing if they wish) are allowed to present a response, and at times then a reply is allowed and then they go before the judge and argue same with such case law.  The case law presented by each either supports or rebuts the case law presented by others. The rebut is usually a case saying the opposite.  Same with experts.

Even in arbitration, Holly, all an arbitrator is like a psuedo judge, but people brief to the arbitrator and there are hearings.  There are also mediations wherein a mediator tries to mediate the case to settlement.

**** quote by Holly****
The medical field, all aspects, is an inexact science. The mental health field is more so. You are not dealing with perfect textbook examples in the mental health field but rather with unique individuals who deserve to be dealt with on an individual basis.
*********************

Exactly, so how can someone say information is inaccurate when based on the individuals situation or information, it may not be.  You have stated why i don't believe anyone can say something is 100% inaccurate just because they are a medical professional or a mental health professional.

angel

< Message edited by barelynangel -- 6/20/2010 7:50:30 AM >


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RE: Inaccurate Info - 6/20/2010 8:00:53 AM   
kdsub


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sirsholly if that was as far as it went I would agree wholeheartedly with you...but...far too often I have seen, on these boards, people publicly called mentally ill. Some posters claiming they have training in the field when called on their statements. This could be devastating to a fragile mind.

The above is far more prevalent on these boards than the example you used and I think it is wrong if well meaning.

Butch

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I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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