quote:

ORIGINAL: lallly2
recently ive realised that i have indirectly scuppered relationships because my level of trust just didnt extend that far or put another way, i didnt see that it was so necessary to be that open. i realise, for myself, that it is - so, after years of keeping that part of me private, whilst at the same time making myself entirely available submissively im not sure how to. or, if i am when i try to be.

you see, its all a bit confused

how do you - there thats the question ive no idea how else to ask this

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ORIGINAL: DarlingSavage

You have to trust someone first, and I have trouble trusting people that fully myself.  I'd say start with something little then work your way up.  

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ORIGINAL: laurell3

lally,

I think you first have to identify why you do it, so you know WHEN you are. Then, find the right guy and be honest about the fact you have a hard time with it and go from there. The greatest guy in the world isn't going to stick around with you sabotaging if he doesn't know what's going on. I think you really need to figure you out and then tell him honestly that you are afraid.

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ORIGINAL: limerentgirl

Heya lallygrl!  Once again, you have shown me my own mind. 

My flavor of all-this: I am coming from a place where I was taught that exposing myself, that sharing my thoughts and thereby making myself vulnerable, was an invitation to misuse and attack.  And so here I am on the doorstep of making a new life for myself and absolutely terrified of -- sometimes even to myself! -- what it is I want, what I like, what i want to try... 

i have to tell you that has never happened to me here - yes ive made mistakes and ive chosen wrongly along the way, as did they in point of fact.  but my eagerness to trust and submit has never been abused within the remit of each relationship ive entered into.  i have ended up in some awful situtations, its true, but i went in fully aware of the dynamic - so i learnt to take responsiblity for my choices.  if a choice was wrong i took responsibility for that wrong choice, noone else made me choose - its a useful tool and stops you from wasting time feeling hurt, let down and mislead.
 
it is a bit edgy to start with but you mustnt be afraid to get it wrong a couple of times as you learn more about what youre looking for and who. its catch#22 - to learn you have to experience but to experience you need to know what you want and its hard to know what you want until youve learnt.  and believe me the learning never ends.


My ability to trust is sorely compromised and so a good part of my exercises in "Becoming" are about challenging myself to openness and honesty on a brutal level.  It's scary because I also mistrust MYSELF -- I second-guess myself all the time.  And I have to be doubly careful because one thing I have learned and may never get past is that there are those out there who prey on tender souls like me -- and to me it seems, whether rightly or not, that they far outnumber the sane and compassionate - so I have to find that fine balance of being open with others, being open to others and being sensibly on my guard.
 
dont worry about the predators - youre new so youre predator prey at the moment.  sit it out for a time - eventually someone will come through who makes you feel safe.
 
'open with others, being open to others' - what do you mean by that statement.


It's maddening that so many (like 90%+) of any communications I've had so far in CM are of the 0-to-60 variety -- hardly a "hello" and it's straight to "I wanna #*&^ your %#$)!!!"  It's bad on 2 counts:

block - its easy.  just block, theyre not what you want, trust me.

(1) it's annoying when/because I really am trying to find/create a reality of this new flavor that integrates with my real life, and

(2) when I am in the grips of the dread newbie "take me BIG," the temptation to just get into some mad cyber scene, just to get a nut, is hard...

I just keep reminding myself of the pointlessness of the latter and the importance of the former.

Thanks lals, for some great thinkin' material!

you need to slow down a bit girl  - take it in easy steps and stages - in a way what ive done all throughout, i realise, is i recognise a hurdle, like this one, think it through, ask for advice from these amazing people, think it through some more and work it out.
 
you will find that the most amazing thing about this trip is how much you learn about youreself, but you have to be prepared to climb over those obsticles.  so identify them one by one and work through them bit by bit.  see it as preparing yourself for that amazing man wherever he is and whatever he's doing right now

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ORIGINAL: Aileen1968

There was a tremendous amount of deceit on my part towards the end of my marriage. I have sworn to myself and to Shore that I will never go down that path again. As a result, he knows every thought that is in my mind at any given moment. I trust him completely and it is an easy task for me.

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ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

I'll use the same reference and say you need enough confidence to deal the cards face up. What fun is that you say? Well it isn't fun, and its not meant to be; it's meant to be disclosing. Unfortunately disclosing ALL and getting naked emotionally and mentally takes a lot more confidence than walking naked down a street. You can't consider negative consequence of such a disclosure, in fact you have to go further than that and be personally convinced and confident that there are no negative consequences. You need to overcome the 'fear factor' involved with; "If I tell them 'this' about me, or how I feel about 'this', I'll jeopardize the relationship". What 'relationship'? You're holding back who you really are, or holding back how you really feel; so in reality what you think is a relationship is an ongoing game of poker which, at best, turns over some less important 'hole cards' over time, never turning them all over and going 'all in'.
 
THIS: wow! definitely this.  it is the deepest exposure and im very bad at it.  this is the openning up im bad at.  but i like this statement here.  in the end what do i have to lose by being and exposing all of me - its scary as hell though, but i want to do it because He wants me to do it and i trust Him completely and utterly - what do i have to lose - hm!


Sure trust comes into play. You can not and will not ever be a position to trust the other person involved. By definition you seek to have that trust and this is a good opportunity to build it; but it won't be there. The only trust you should require is that as a 'person' the individual has enough integrity to not put up a billboard, figuratively or literally, of what you expose to them. The person you have to know intimately, and trust completely and without compromise, is yourself. The reason being that if the disclosure doesn't turn out well - you'll be going home with only that person's strength to comfort you over a quart of 'Hagen-Daz'.

i can do that.  i have that bit sussed

To overcome the problem you have to go in with the confident mindset that regardless of the outcome of that disclosure and opening up, you are going to come of it as the same confident person. As important is the requirement that you should also be like that person and be happy with the representation that gets reflected from any mirror happenstance passes you by, or is held up in front of you; appreciating that, like any body put under scrutiny, there are flaws in you personality, emotions, and mentality. However they are what makes you - you. In your mind opening up and exposing them to your partner only exposes more of you to love, and let them appreciate and 'love it' as much as you do. As a ''Master' or 'slave', you can't be more 'free', or more confident in life for that matter, than to have no fear of exposing yourself totally naked to a partner.

thank you xx - that makes so much sense and its what i want to do and what im ready to do because He wants me to do it - and thats the difference.

I'll add one more thing which is why I believe this exposed nakedness originating from submissive persona requires more strength than the dominant counterpart. It goes back to those 'social norms' and mores'. Representing yourself as happy, content, and fulfilled, as completely and totally 'submissive' in a relationship, let alone being so in every opportunity as a single; and be prepared to be called 'doormat' by 'friends' to your face and worse by those not knowing you at all, but seeing you as a happy, convenient, target of opportunity. The most 'understanding providing a; "Oh, you poor thing. Were you abused as a child?" Ready for that as a potential consequence of being "open"? It takes a rare amount of strength and confidence to react with a disarming smile and laughter in the face of such ignorance.

It's also my opinion that females in particular expose themselves to condemnation if they choose to expose themselves as a 'submissive'. The perception will be that you are weak. You will hear how submitting is degrading, usually avoiding the personal choice issue, by broadening the stoke and painting it with; "Submitting to a person like that and letting them do all those 'nasty' things is just degrading to woman." Your personal happiness, situationally or within a relationship, discounted in consideration for the negative image you are portraying of 'woman-kind'. The current status of men in society on the other hand, is rationalized individually as "exposing his sensitive side"; and in the macro regarded as a favorable evolution of 'man' as enabling, serving, and sensitive to the needs of his partner. Controlling his testosterone based macho non-consideration nature.

i think very often the interferrance either obvious or feared can make you retreat from where you are. you can end up hiding youre relationship from those prying, misunderstanding eyes and that messes with the continueum youre otherwise in.
 
i can kinda feel how, when youre absolutely naked and open to youre partner that that just isnt possible, you cant retreat, you cant hide from those prying eyes without youre partner seeing it and whilst theyll most likely understand that, i think it would bug me.
 
thank you merc for all of youre post, youve helped me so much, youve no idea how much.  xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

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ORIGINAL: leadership527

So I guess I have a question Lally. If you look at my answer on the masters forum, you'll see that I perceive two sides to "open-ness". Which are you talking about?