RE: Is there a safe and easy way to prove who you are?

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RE: Is there a safe and easy way to prove who you are? - 4/13/2006 2:18:46 PM

FelinePersuasion

Posts: 4792
Joined: 11/20/2004
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First off not every one has a digital camera to take digital pictures. Second off webcaming is easily fakable. I could tell you I am a 140 pound male blue eyes brown hair and a mustache and then get my bf to get on webcam when you go look at my camera to verify what I have said.

quote:

ORIGINAL: EatUs

What I do as a verification is webcam or a digital photo of them with: "(screenname) @ (so so site) is REAL for (your screenname)". It'd be harder for them to fake that or photoshop it..as usually the fake pictures are of random folks on the internet, or they are of their friends/girlfriends/boyfriends/husbands/wives/whatever and that person would probably be a bit concerned if they wanted their friend(and all that jazz) to hold a sign like that just for verification.

My friend had a problem with this, as she only saw some pictures of her "Master", and then flew from Cali to Florida and found out the guy in the photo was COMPLETELY different from the "Master" she saw before her.

Doing a phone conversation at first is a good idea, but anyone can be a voice. Try getting them to do a voice/video conference on an IM service, or get them to show you their webcam and talk on the phone.
If they claim to not have one, offer choices like the digital picture. If they claim to not have that, then it's probably fake.

(in reply to EatUs)

Post #: 21

RE: Is there a safe and easy way to prove who you are? - 4/13/2006 2:25:43 PM

FelinePersuasion

Posts: 4792
Joined: 11/20/2004
Status: offline

that's still not reliable nor fool proof nor should it be counted on to be.

It's simple I could get my neighbor or my mom or my brother or any one of those poeple to pose in the picture with what ever the identifyer was supposed to be and tell you it's me.
webcams pictures holing up signs NONE of it's 100 percent reliable or fool proof.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Happilymarried

You could always ask them to take a picture of themselves holding something like a newspaper, rose, or something. I doubt many people would have random pictures of people holding a newspaper.

(in reply to Happilymarried)

Post #: 22

RE: Is there a safe and easy way to prove who you are? - 4/13/2006 2:46:41 PM

valeca

Posts: 403
Joined: 1/9/2006
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I have to agree agree with LA. At what point does one stop trying to obtain 'proof' or varification of identity, and begin relying on their own good judgement? If someone is willing to put that much energy into verifying the identity over the net, investing that much of their time into it--or that much time worrying about falsified documentation, I'd have to wonder why they'd not just make it a whole lot simpler on themselves and limit potential contacts to a more local area...or venue, if it's an option. It'd be far less complicated on everyone invloved.

I'll do what I can to make someone comfortable with me saying I am who I claim to be, but there'd come a point where I'd have to say, "Either you believe me, or you don't." If they do, great. If they don't, I've done all I'm willing to do to prove it online and I'd walk away.

For the record, that point for me comes long before giving out my DL.

_____________________________

~valeca, Owned and Operated by Loraith.

(in reply to fullofgrace)

Post #: 23

RE: Is there a safe and easy way to prove who you are? - 4/13/2006 7:28:30 PM

Arpig

Posts: 9930
Joined: 1/3/2006
From: Increasingly further from reality
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Well since I claim to be an ugly, old, and presently unemployed opinionated prick, oddly enough everybody pretty much believes me

.
However, if somebody ever asked me for my DL or other piece of ID I would think they have WAY to much baggage for me to be interested further. (However if a hydro bill would be acceptable that would be ok, I really don't mind if you steal that, they can chase after you for it then

).

_____________________________

Big man! Pig Man!
Ha Ha...Charade you are!

Why do they leave out the letter b on "Garage Sale" signs?

CM's #1 All-Time Also-Ran

(in reply to valeca)

Post #: 24

RE: Is there a safe and easy way to prove who you are? - 4/13/2006 7:51:45 PM

dogobedience

Posts: 536
Joined: 3/30/2006
Status: offline

As for myself, I always send a pic that is easily verifiable.

It is the same for them. I ask for a pic with a current newspaper with a word, any word you tell them, hand written on it.The paper must be in the pic also. I do this only after I get facts on them, that way if they are a liar them would have to look for a person who fits what they have told me so far......frauds will simply move on , since there soo mant idiots to lie to , as we all have read.

Most of the time though I have enough friends that are real slaves that will gladly PROVE TO ANYONE WHO I AM AND MY ABILITIES TO DOMINATE AND CONTROL. However most girls will simply want to believe and usually will fall in love with the perfect dom, well at least the perfect dom in cyberspace.I HATE THAT, ALL THEY DO IS POLUTE IT FOR ALL OF US WHO ARE HONEST AND ARE SIMPLY LOOKING FOR MATE.

ASK QUESTIONS, EXPECT ANSWERS EVEN THE LOWEST PERSON ON EARTH DESERVES THAT!

(in reply to Chaingang)

Post #: 25

RE: Is there a safe and easy way to prove who you are? - 4/13/2006 10:53:15 PM

FirmhandKY

Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
Status: offline

I guess I'm a different from most of the posters. As a dominant man, I usually end up talking and getting acquainted with submissive woman (or just women in general), and I generally don't press them for much in the way of proof, because I'm not trying to get them into any type of "compromising position" any time soon.

But my BS detector is always on, especially at the beginning of the get acquainted stage. If there are some inconsistencies, I'll ask about them. Over time, it is very, very difficult to not slip up, if you aren't in a state of "wanna believe", and especially if you aren't promising them anything.

I've usually found that over time, they will send ME photos and personal information, even if I don't ask, of various sorts, or talk about subjects I'm familiar with. While I can't categorically say I've never been deceived, any that I've eventually meet have been exactly as represented. Eventually we will trade phone numbers - and not just cell phone numbers - and chat person to person.

As for me, since I'm not necessarily in a hurry to "do" anything other than get acquainted, I don't usually feel like I have to prove anything to them - like me, I believe if they are the intelligent person I hope and believe them to be, that they'll be able to detect BS over time.

But I have occasionally given some personal information out, or links to sites where they can see evidence of me, before I ever got to know them, such as forums, or sites that still have copies of my e-book for download, or even some of my own websites which they can trace through ICANN's and such, if it's that important to them. I've never taken my phone number off of Google, so they can get my home address, if they want (and if they don't, I want to know why they didn't do that simple precautionary thing).

Still waiting for Glenn Close to show up, but she hasn't yet.

If we plan on meeting over coffee or anything else, I make sure they know what a safe call is, and explain how they should set it up, if they don't.

I can send photos, and have - but I don't cam. Dialup, and it's a pain in the butt (no, don't tell me it's not, I've hooked up plenty on my network, for my kids, but I'm a curmudgeon in some respects, and the damn things keep falling off the monitor, eating my memory, and generally being a nuisance). If I don't come across to you as geniune and truthful, then either you have insecurity issue, or I'm not clicking with you otherwise.

FHky

_____________________________

Some people are just idiots.

(in reply to dogobedience)

Post #: 26

RE: Is there a safe and easy way to prove who you are? - 4/13/2006 11:06:29 PM

SweetPosession

Posts: 87
Joined: 4/4/2006
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That's a tough issue. I've met with people who were insulted that I asked for personal information. "What, are you going to do a background check?" Well, yes, actually. I was. I'm not at all interested in a power exchange with a psycho killer, thanks.
I offer a government-issued photo ID to online friends the first time we meet. Why? Because I use a psuedonym online. Because then they know who I really am. Because they know I'm not going to hide basic information. Some people aren't comfortable giving out such basic information to people they've met online for privacy reasons. A politician unwittingly giving an opponant undeniable evidence of kinky behavior could lose thousands of votes. A professional I know was fired for allowing his submissive to call him "Master" at the office. If my boss knew I like to tie people up and torture them till they beg for release (one way or another...) she probably wouldn't care, unless I was doing it in the break room. But some people have more sensitive jobs--or just more sensitive supervisers. If someone's withholding personal information, it might not be for a sinister reason. Ask them. If they give you a streight answer that makes sense and--this is important--lines up with the rest of what they've told you about them, it may be perfectly innocent. Remember, they don't know who you are either. If you're still uncomfortable with it, you have to decide whether it's enough to give up the relationship. For some people it would be.

(in reply to Chaingang)

Post #: 27

RE: Is there a safe and easy way to prove who you are? - 4/14/2006 1:54:07 AM

Chaingang

Posts: 1727
Joined: 10/24/2005
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FirmhandKY:

That sounds pretty close to the exact same things I do. What it doesn't answer is the issue of time - esp. wasted time. By the time you have done all of that and actually caught someone in a lie or some heretofore concealed truth, you are well into it time-wise.

My most recent bad deal took about two weeks to uncover - it wasn't precisely that I was deceived but that information was handed out piecemeal until I decided there was enough trouble finally admitted to that I felt the need to move on. At that point I could also tell that my attempts to get to important details right away were evaded and managed by the other person's need to avoid telling me those truths about herself. This is the old cat and mouse routine, the only thing that ever changes is the time involved - sometimes you can tell right away, sometimes it takes days, and sometimes even weeks or months. It hasn't happened to me a lot, just a few times but it still annoys.

If that's what it takes, that's what it takes - but I am surprised that people that consider themselves "real" are so touchy about proving the truth about themselves. This thread is full of suspicion about a motive that is so obviously just a desire to save time. No big mystery involved - my motive in posting this thread topic is to save time for myself and anyone else doing this kind of thing. There's no baggage involved really, I just want verifiable info. I dig deep into people, and because I don't fuck around they will not be allowed to fuck me around.

BTW, when it comes time for the photo ID - I can and do command a driver's license copy and I almost always get it (can't think of a time I was declined this request). Sure maybe it's a fake, but I also check it at meeting and against the actual person too.

One of the two shows I have watched on TV lately is "House MD". The character House is famous for the line "Everybody lies." In the main, I think this is true. I sometimes find myself having to explain to people how and why their lies are going to mess things up for us. People will lie about almost anything - it's amazing really. I sometimes find that I have to catch and forgive small lies so that a person can learn to be honest with me - this can be a manifold issue involving trust, honesty, and self-acceptance (i.e. the person sometimes lies even to themselves). I am cynical enough to believe that it's not WILL the person lie, but will it be a lie big enough to be a deal-breaker. Can I teach this person not to lie to me?

Bigger lies or withheld truths are usually a reason to move on.

< Message edited by Chaingang -- 4/14/2006 1:56:42 AM >

_____________________________

"Everything flows, nothing stands still." (Πάντα ῥεῖ καὶ οὐδὲν μένει) - Heraclitus

(in reply to FirmhandKY)

Post #: 28

RE: Is there a safe and easy way to prove who you are? - 4/14/2006 2:47:53 AM

ExistentialSteel

Posts: 676
Joined: 1/18/2005
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There sometimes comes a pinnacle time in relationships where you politely smile without sneering at the other when the gaffe is committed. When the truthfulness is left by the roadside like an empty beer can or old newspapers blowing down Canal St in post Katrina New Orleans, I don’t gloat, but I do feel uncomfortable in less than honorable company. I swirl wine in my glass and look far away in more ways than one.

Okay, having said that, I never asked for ID, etc. I always would know someone’s personality well from online and the phone, but I never actually checked to see if she was who she said she was. It would often be that we would have mutual online friends, but not always. I mean I could barely remember the last names of some and it didn’t matter to me if I felt like I knew them.

There is another side to this. You are saying that trusting alone without having access to personal info is perilous. But isn’t giving your personal info to another a tremendous gamble? Aren’t you asking the person to blindly trust you to the nth degree? After all, you could be giving phony info. Someone who has another’s full name, address, drivers license number, SSN and so could cause mega financial and other wrong doings. If we are at the building of trust stage, why would I give my personal info that could be misused?

_____________________________

For those who are like Roman Candles leaving bright trails in the night sky while the crowd watches until the dark blue center light bursts into magnificent colors and the crowd goes, ahhhhhhhhhh.

(in reply to Chaingang)

Post #: 29

RE: Is there a safe and easy way to prove who you are? - 4/14/2006 3:08:06 AM

PenelopePitstop

Posts: 254
Joined: 4/22/2005
From: UK
Status: offline

the only thing IMHO that can be proven online is that the entity you are communicating with has access to an internet connection and can read.

_____________________________

Wickedness is a myth created by good people to account for the curious attractiveness of others ~ Oscar Wilde

"You had me at Goodbye"

(in reply to Chaingang)

Post #: 30

RE: Is there a safe and easy way to prove who you are? - 4/14/2006 4:41:17 AM

LeatherBentOne

Posts: 469
Joined: 9/27/2005
Status: offline

Call me ridiculous and obsessive, but call me taking responsibilty for my own safety.

I'd spoken very breifly to a woman from gay.com for about 4 years but never met her in real. Out of the blue, she asked me to attend her brothers wedding with her. We lived in neighboring states, so I'd have to sleep there overnight.

Before I would consent to even answering her question, I spoke with her by phone for about 90 minutes. Then, I requested she fax me a copy of her Driver's License (no SS# on it), and the top portion of a utility bill to see if it matched her address. In addition, I got the make, model and tag number for her vehicle, where she was employed with phone number and 3 phone references of previous play partners.

Since I was to meet her in a public place, then follow her to her apartment, I checked Mapquest to find her probable route and an alternate so that when following her, I would know if she was heading to a different place than her apartment. I called her job and asked for her while she was working. In addition, I called her references. I also did a local police record check.

Then, I set up a safety net with my best friend, giving all the info I'd acquired, set specific times when Id check in with her by phone, allowing a 5 minute window before she phoned police. Also, there was a"code word" should I be in trouble and this woman whom I never previously met was within listening distance.

All this just to meet another woman who I probably could have overpowered if I needed to. But, my thinking followed as such:

1. How do I know she'll show up alone?
2. How do I know she won't drive me to a place and I dont know where Im at?
3. What if I sense some danger once behind closed doors and nobody knows where Im at or how to help me?
4. How do I know this woman isnt a hardened criminal? a drug addict, an alcoholic or an "undesireable?"
5. How will the police find this woman should she harm me and run?

Yes, I may be ridiculous and some may call me obsessive, but guess what? Im worth taking responsibility for my own safety. And yes, I am a Domme, but that doesnt mean I cannot be harmed the same as any submissive.

(in reply to fullofgrace)

Post #: 31

RE: Is there a safe and easy way to prove who you are? - 4/14/2006 6:37:55 AM

Arpig

Posts: 9930
Joined: 1/3/2006
From: Increasingly further from reality
Status: offline

you forgot one
6. How can I be sure the sky won't fall on my head?

Sorry LBO, but it IS ridiculous, and I for one would have fallen out of my chair laughing at your requests. Oh, by the way, do you set up a saefty net withh scall-in times, etc. when you go do your groceries as well?

And to Chaingang....what's the big issue here. You say it is really not about trust or suspicion (BULLSHIT!) but about saving time?? What is the deal with your precious time.....you spend maybe an hour each evening chatting with somebody and you enjoy the time and the chats. After a week or two you discover that the person isn't what they claimed to be and the chats end. You have been "burned", you have wasted 7-14 hours by spending them doing something enjoyable...what's the problem, no "payoff" at the end?
Did none of you ever take a woman out to a movie simply because you enjoy her company and knew she would enjoy the movie....with no expectation or desire for any further reward than the pleasure of her company? The reward for those hours is those hours themselves....life is a journey to death...so enjoy the damned journey, because the destination isn't half as much fun.

_____________________________

Big man! Pig Man!
Ha Ha...Charade you are!

Why do they leave out the letter b on "Garage Sale" signs?

CM's #1 All-Time Also-Ran

(in reply to LeatherBentOne)

Post #: 32

RE: Is there a safe and easy way to prove who you are? - 4/14/2006 7:20:03 AM

plantlady64

Posts: 755
Joined: 5/19/2005
Status: offline

Hello There,
In adult friend finder & alt they have a company who you submit your information to to confirm with your license you are who you say you are. Once you sumbit the proper ID's to them and get approved they have a little box that shows you've confirmed your ID. In here I don't see any such service.
Overall I feel even then it's still not necessarily iron clad proof as they could have sent someone elses ID to the firm.
Overall you just have to be careful, use safe calls when meeting someone, meet in public till you're comfortable & hope.
It's all just a gamble & you have to decide if it's worth it to you or not.
Suzanne

(in reply to Chaingang)

Post #: 33

RE: Is there a safe and easy way to prove who you are? - 4/14/2006 7:34:01 AM

foxnotinsox

Posts: 84
Joined: 4/29/2005
From: eastern Ontario, Canada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chaingang

A friend and I were discussing how someone could be made to prove who they are online. My answer for some time has been to invest at least some time, gain trust, talk on the phone, and then STILL require a scan or copy of photo ID like a driver's license (or an exchange of such). Of course, people raise the issue of fake ID (photoshopped) or even "identity theft" but I have previously felt that the driver's license provides a lot of good info, a photo, and a number - all of which is generally useless for identity theft.

Or is it?
I am certainly open to other suggestions about how to prove who one is online. Again, the presumption here is that there is a real interest in gaining a person's trust and that the person is not just a random stranger per se.

Well, when you think about it ... everybody is a random stranger...
just that, on this site, people tend to be stranger than most heheh

There *is* a presumption of trust .. and it has to go both ways. True, in a male/female interaction, the female is allowed to hold onto a bit of her privacy [because one just never knows] .. but if you request a driver's license, you should also be prepared to produce one of your own.

The safe and easy way to determine if a person is who they say they are is to get to know them. Talk to them .. by email, IMs, phone .. at home and at work. If you have a phone number, it can be reverse searched through whitepages dot com ... and maps are freely available through mapquest.

Meet in person in a public place as soon as you are comfortable doing so. It's easy to BS online, tougher on the phone, and [well at least for myself <grins>] nigh onto impossible in-person.

You could also use a third party. Get references, use a safe call if meeting, or go through the local community. I'm lucky cause in-town there are two fet-type clubs .. private which require membership. In order to be a member, you have to show ID at the door and at least be known to the owners. This way, both parties are safe and <grins> the venue provides better opportunity than a Timmy's to get to know one another [heheh though not till the 3rd date for me] ... and it is also safe for there are others around who can help out if need be.

Above all else, trust your gut feeling ..
For if something doesn't feel right, then it probably isn't ..

_____________________________

oxox,foX
Veni vidi veni

(in reply to Chaingang)

Post #: 34

RE: Is there a safe and easy way to prove who you are? - 4/14/2006 7:41:26 AM

missturbation

Posts: 8290
Joined: 2/12/2006
From: another planet
Status: offline

To go off on a slightly differant tangent (apologies for this) but before we ask a person to prove who they are ie, with a driving licence, passport shouldn't we be looking to prove who this person is personality wise. So many fakes are online who will show you a best side for a length of time.
Now whilst yes i agree knowing who you are talking to is important - do we ever really know who we are talking to?

(in reply to fullofgrace)

Post #: 35

RE: Is there a safe and easy way to prove who you are? - 4/14/2006 7:41:52 AM

Chaingang

Posts: 1727
Joined: 10/24/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig
And to Chaingang....what's the big issue here. You say it is really not about trust or suspicion (BULLSHIT!) but about saving time?? What is the deal with your precious time.....

For something more serious I can invest the time and have - not that I enjoy it, but as a necessary evil to gain my ends. Shorter term or more casual players players would clearly require something more succinct. Pros absolutely require something more abbreviated, or I guess they are comfortable risking a lot all the time (I understand pros use references so that's another background check method).

BTW, Have you never noticed that a recurring theme of the "player" complaint threads is wasted time. Time is everything. Time is money. Time is the journey. I want my journey to be fun and interesting to me, and not detoured by foolish time wasters.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig
...so enjoy the damned journey, because the destination isn't half as much fun.

See above. It's a little hard not to get personal with you about time constraints - but some of us simply do not want our time wasted. Period. Perhaps we don't have the time to waste as we keep ourselves occupied vocationally and avocationally. If you feel less concerned about that, or feel that time wasters are kind of indulgence you enjoy - great, more power to you. I prefer things otherwise.

Anyway, I don't really have a problem here - when I get involved with someone they have a tendency to obey my wishes: my way or the highway. I just wondered what sort of risks were actually involved to the participants - but no one has bothered to get into that part of my original post, there has merely been a lot of defensiveness about why anyone would require a screening process so rigid as to require ID. FWIW, while I am not looking at it right now I think Jay Wiseman's "SM 101" recommends the ID method AND safecalling. So I simply cannot be alone in my desire to weed out the nutters.

I can see real uses for the cam and digital photo suggestions also - which I have personally usually been more casual about. So I appreciate the people who chimed in with those suggestions.

_____________________________

"Everything flows, nothing stands still." (Πάντα ῥεῖ καὶ οὐδὲν μένει) - Heraclitus

(in reply to Arpig)

Post #: 36

RE: Is there a safe and easy way to prove who you are? - 4/14/2006 7:56:31 AM

Chaingang

Posts: 1727
Joined: 10/24/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation
...shouldn't we be looking to prove who this person is personality wise.

Interestingly enough, this is another area that is easily navigated with someone who is open and honest but less easily traversed with someone that is more closed-off, deferential, and mistrusting. I am not even saying they are lying, just that their personality is such that drawing information from them is an enormous effort requiring time, patience, and persistence.

While all of that is taking place, why not do the references, photos/cam, and ID thing?

_____________________________

"Everything flows, nothing stands still." (Πάντα ῥεῖ καὶ οὐδὲν μένει) - Heraclitus

(in reply to missturbation)

Post #: 37

RE: Is there a safe and easy way to prove who you are? - 4/14/2006 8:53:22 AM

TxBadMan

Posts: 198
Joined: 4/7/2006
From: Moody, Texas
Status: offline

Personally, I only play with those whom I have met in person through munches, parties, clubs, etc. Even then, I make it a point to tell any prospective play partners that I expect THEM to double check everything that I tell them, or that they learn about me. From my perspective, not doing so shows a marked lack of care and concern about one's own safety.
However, if someone online, whom I had never met in person asked me for all that information, my response would be " sorry, but if you want that information, then I will be at this place on this date; we can meet and talk then."

_____________________________

Chris

(in reply to Chaingang)

Post #: 38

RE: Is there a safe and easy way to prove who you are? - 4/14/2006 9:08:46 AM

Phoenixandnika

Posts: 748
Joined: 4/22/2005
From: Aberdeen Maryland
Status: offline

Personally I would not give a copy of my ID to someone, however; I do not see anything wrong with once you are face to face asking to see ID. I have personally done this.

Before the meeting we have always exchanged names, phone numbers, and spoken via the phone. Though that does not always gaurntee a person is who they say they are.

But that is why we suggest getting together for lunch in a public place very soon after correspondance begins. I don't meet people alone anymore it is always both Phoenix and Myself.However, there was a point where I did meet people over the net alone quite often.

LeatherBentOne I am sorry but how do they know you are not going to do those things or how do we know anything for sure.
The reality is life is about risk we simply have to judge the risk - be as safe as we can without being paraniod or becoming the boy in the bubble - IF you truly fear someone is all those things or might be here is an obvious question. Why would you meet them in person to begin with?

In the end we must decide what is safe and sane for us.What we are confortable with on both side and perhaps meeting people off the net is not the right thing for many people. However, meeting someone in a club or on the street can hold the same risk in my opinion.

Nika{Phoenix}

_____________________________

"Life is neither a bed of roses nor a carpet of thorns, it's just what you make of it."

(in reply to TxBadMan)

Post #: 39

A real submissive - 4/14/2006 9:12:40 AM

CrappyDom

Posts: 1883
Joined: 4/11/2006
From: Sacramento
Status: offline

If you are a real submissive and you truly trust and love your dominate you will give him your atm number and password. That is how a true high end submissive proves her worth....

Please note, the above is pure unadulterated sarcasm...

This conversation is exactly why playing online is a waste of electrons.

(in reply to Phoenixandnika)

Post #: 40

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