High End Sub?

High End Sub? (Full Version)

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mysecret40 -> High End Sub? (4/13/2006 9:20:01 AM)
Very often when talking to Doms or just people in D/S, they ask, well what kind of sub are you? And there are so many different styles....one said I was a pleasure sub, one said I was a husbandry sub, one said I was a take in hand,...so I decided to do some reading and research. Came across a site for something called a "High" End submissive. I've never heard this one before...has anyone else? http://www.steel-door.com/High_End_Submissive.html this is the site....secret

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: High End Sub? (4/13/2006 9:28:44 AM)
Hadn't before today. Sounds like a submissive with a dominant personality who hasn't learned how to be calm and balanced.

incognitoinmass -> RE: High End Sub? (4/13/2006 9:30:06 AM)
Sounds like me[:D]

SirCumsSlut -> RE: High End Sub? (4/13/2006 9:33:47 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mysecret40 Very often when talking to Doms or just people in D/S, they ask, well what kind of sub are you? And there are so many different styles....one said I was a pleasure sub, one said I was a husbandry sub, one said I was a take in hand,...so I decided to do some reading and research. Came across a site for something called a "High" End submissive. I've never heard this one before...has anyone else? http://www.steel-door.com/High_End_Submissive.html this is the site....secret Have heard of it before, have been told it refers to subs that are looking for rich Doms..........they want a sugardaddy basically

waterdance -> RE: High End Sub? (4/13/2006 9:34:45 AM)
have never heard of this before today but then again i am a newbie. [sm=dance.gif]

KatyLied -> RE: High End Sub? (4/13/2006 9:54:08 AM)
It sounds like lifestyle psychobabble to me.

willowheart -> RE: High End Sub? (4/13/2006 10:03:07 AM)
nope. High End means the "higher end" of the spectrum. Not High Maintanance !!!!! I'm a H.E.s. I'm Not a "volunteer" in this. I am very suseptible to many Dominant "voices". I cave-in -- in spite of my better judgement, not because i want to, it's because i "have" to. I used to hate myself for it. It's as if I was walking around in this flock of sheep, but i was the one who never seemed to simply run with the pack. A bit more pensive, more afraid, always comparing, pondering, trying to copy "normal" people in order to protect myself and hide... quote: ORIGINAL: SirCumsSlut quote: ORIGINAL: mysecret40 Very often when talking to Doms or just people in D/S, they ask, well what kind of sub are you? And there are so many different styles....one said I was a pleasure sub, one said I was a husbandry sub, one said I was a take in hand,...so I decided to do some reading and research. Came across a site for something called a "High" End submissive. I've never heard this one before...has anyone else? http://www.steel-door.com/High_End_Submissive.html this is the site....secret Have heard of it before, have been told it refers to subs that are looking for rich Doms..........they want a sugardaddy basically *SirCumsSlut, please do me the favor of checking out the site and definition before saying something so hurtful?*

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: High End Sub? (4/13/2006 10:20:42 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: willowheart High End means the "higher end" of the spectrum. What spectrum?? quote: . A bit more pensive, more afraid, always comparing, pondering, trying to copy "normal" people in order to protect myself and hide... Sounds like 90% of the kinky people I know...

TNstepsout -> RE: High End Sub? (4/13/2006 12:23:36 PM)
Interesting. I have to say parts of this description rings bells for me. In fact, this statement "When in the presence of an 'expressing' Dominant male or female this submissive will feel 'compelled' to respond. This is not a thought or voluntary choice. The best way I can describe it is on a primal or instinctive level. When I say 'expressing Dominant' I am describing any individual who is in the midst of a strongly emissive Dominant event." is almost word for word something I said a few months ago. I DO copy other people when I need to appear confident, authoritative, assertive, because those qualities do not come naturally to me. It works. If I copy something long enough and get the appropriate response it becomes a part of my natural abilities. I don't know that it's some deeply imbedded psychological coping mechanism, it's just something I do that works. I don't throw myself between people who are fighting. I don't really understand the significance of that portion. I do live in and out of "space". I always considered it part of my artistic or creative side. I day dream a lot and "space" when I create or write. I don't know that I cover for it. I don't really apologize for something that is a part of me and offers a lot of insight, and creative solutions. Yup, I got here through the internet. I'm pretty confident behind the keyboard, but when faced with a real life meeting and Dominant body language I get pretty scared. Is this some deep psychological condition, or just a normal reaction for a newbie to the loss of the obvious safety of being at home behind the comp? Who knows? This is something to ponder though and I think it will help me in describing some aspects of my personality that seem to cause some confusion.

starymists -> RE: High End Sub? (4/13/2006 1:15:31 PM)
There are any one of a number of articles, some of which go back more than a decade on High End/High Need submissives. Basically, it's referring to a specific type of personality that tends to be incredibly insecure and needs a lot of emotional care taking to remain in a good place. Having know more than one person that fits this category of being, it can be difficult to be in relationship with them if you do not understand what they need and why. It can also be difficult to be in an intense or intimate relationship without understanding how they 'read' love, caring and concern for their partners. On the other hand, I also know more than one Dominant who are more than happy to provide that level of caretaking.

slavejali -> RE: High End Sub? (4/13/2006 2:04:42 PM)
I dont get what that article has to do with a particular kind of submissive. It sounds like its describing a dysfunctional personality to me. (Btw we are all dysfunctional in different areas no ones perfect, so the liklihood of someone being able to relate to that article in some way or other is high).

mixielicous -> RE: High End Sub? (4/13/2006 2:48:08 PM)
i have never heard of it, but it sounds a lot like the personality i expressed as a teenager

TNstepsout -> RE: High End Sub? (4/13/2006 2:48:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slavejali I dont get what that article has to do with a particular kind of submissive. It sounds like its describing a dysfunctional personality to me. (Btw we are all dysfunctional in different areas no ones perfect, so the liklihood of someone being able to relate to that article in some way or other is high). It seems to me the main focus of the submissive type is the aspect that submission is a compulsion, not something openly understood and acknowledged and the resulting defense mechanism to that strange compulsion. I'm not sure the article goes into enough detail on that part, but it's almost like a hypnotic suggestion or feeling like being under a spell. It's not a real intrinsic desire on the part of the sub to submit, but rather something that is triggered with certain looks, voice inflection, body language etc.... I described this exact experience a few months ago to someone, even using the words primal and instinctive. Since I'm very new to all of this, I thought that's what submission was, even though it didn't seem to be what others were describing. It's very fear based, almost like a deer in the headlights reaction or a kitten going limp when picked up by the scruff or a rabbit freezing when it senses danger. The rest of the dysfunction comes from trying to protect oneself from the extreme vulnerability of this automatic response. We all know what happens to a deer in the headlights. I don't know why the writer named it "High end" which seems to imply that it is somehow a higher or better form of submission. Which in turn causes others to resent the implication and wonder "what the hell is so high about it?" But regardless of the name, for me, it resonates. Don't know what I'm going to do about it, but it's nice to know I'm not the only one.

starymists -> RE: High End Sub? (4/13/2006 3:01:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TNstepsout It seems to me the main focus of the submissive type is the aspect that submission is a compulsion, not something openly understood and acknowledged and the resulting defense mechanism to that strange compulsion. I'm not sure the article goes into enough detail on that part, but it's almost like a hypnotic suggestion or feeling like being under a spell. It's not a real intrinsic desire on the part of the sub to submit, but rather something that is triggered with certain looks, voice inflection, body language etc.... I don't believe it is a compulsion at all. Most, if not all of the High End submissives I've known are fully functional submissives, fully functional people. But when they get into relationships, its easy for them to loose their sense of security as they start to trust another. Just as there are different types of people, there are different types of personalities...having a different personality doesn't mean you can't have natural submissive tendancies...just means you need a different kind of care. quote: I don't know why the writer named it "High end" which seems to imply that it is somehow a higher or better form of submission. Which in turn causes others to resent the implication and wonder "what the hell is so high about it?" But regardless of the name, for me, it resonates. Don't know what I'm going to do about it, but it's nice to know I'm not the only one. It's not meant to imply that its a higher or better form of submission...more like a higher need for emotional support, a higher need for things like security and comitment than what would typically be expected for another person. Just as Dominant and submissive are descriptors, high end/high need is just another descriptor. Just one that isn't frequently utilized.

TNstepsout -> RE: High End Sub? (4/13/2006 3:16:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: starymists quote: ORIGINAL: TNstepsout It seems to me the main focus of the submissive type is the aspect that submission is a compulsion, not something openly understood and acknowledged and the resulting defense mechanism to that strange compulsion. I'm not sure the article goes into enough detail on that part, but it's almost like a hypnotic suggestion or feeling like being under a spell. It's not a real intrinsic desire on the part of the sub to submit, but rather something that is triggered with certain looks, voice inflection, body language etc.... I don't believe it is a compulsion at all. Most, if not all of the High End submissives I've known are fully functional submissives, fully functional people. But when they get into relationships, its easy for them to loose their sense of security as they start to trust another. Just as there are different types of people, there are different types of personalities...having a different personality doesn't mean you can't have natural submissive tendancies...just means you need a different kind of care. quote: I don't know why the writer named it "High end" which seems to imply that it is somehow a higher or better form of submission. Which in turn causes others to resent the implication and wonder "what the hell is so high about it?" But regardless of the name, for me, it resonates. Don't know what I'm going to do about it, but it's nice to know I'm not the only one. It's not meant to imply that its a higher or better form of submission...more like a higher need for emotional support, a higher need for things like security and comitment than what would typically be expected for another person. Just as Dominant and submissive are descriptors, high end/high need is just another descriptor. Just one that isn't frequently utilized. I'm going by what's in this article. I think what you are describing is something else. This particular article specifically says it's a compulsion. "When in the presence of an 'expressing' Dominant male or female this submissive will feel 'compelled' to respond. This is not a thought or voluntary choice. The best way I can describe it is on a primal or instinctive level. When I say 'expressing Dominant' I am describing any individual who is in the midst of a strongly emissive Dominant event."

starymists -> RE: High End Sub? (4/13/2006 3:44:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TNstepsout I'm going by what's in this article. I think what you are describing is something else. This particular article specifically says it's a compulsion. "When in the presence of an 'expressing' Dominant male or female this submissive will feel 'compelled' to respond. This is not a thought or voluntary choice. The best way I can describe it is on a primal or instinctive level. When I say 'expressing Dominant' I am describing any individual who is in the midst of a strongly emissive Dominant event." The article, I think, in some ways is misleading. That particular compulsion that is cited is in rsponse to specific stimuli that would suggest the Dominant might not be in control of him/her self at the time the compulsion to submit happens. "The submissive 'needs' the Dominant to stop . . . to control. In addition this submissive will often 'express' submission. No threat. Calm. The apparent intent is to deflect the Dominant energy, summon or return the Dominant to control of themselves. The interface of unexpected submissive energy will often 'shut down' the explosive or violent scene. Sometimes the submissive will go so far as to 'draw' the 'energy' of the Dominant and they may find themselves within the whirlpool of uncontrolled violence of a Dominant out of control. This reaction or response is irrational to many outside viewers. The article spends a great deal of time talking about the masks that a High End/High Need submissive wears without really talking about what is going on beneath the masks. As the article states, the mask is really an attempt at self-protection. It is an attempt that allows the high end/high need submissive remain in control of him or herself. But underneath the mask is the dual fear of being discovered for who and what they are, coupled with a deep desire to set that part of themselves free. "Their greatest fear and desire is to be recognized, properly identified." The article then goes on to explain how the internet makes a high end/high need submissive more vulnerable to that which they fear. But it never really talks about what it is they are hiding. Because I've know a number of people like this and because I've done the reading on this subject be happy to provide other articles discussing this in further depth for anyone interested I'm aware of what it is they are hiding. And that is an intensive vulnerability, an intensive need for reasurance, amongst other things...which was the frame of reference of my original post [;)]

SirCumsSlut -> RE: High End Sub? (4/13/2006 4:29:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: willowheart nope. High End means the "higher end" of the spectrum. Not High Maintanance !!!!! I'm a H.E.s. I'm Not a "volunteer" in this. I am very suseptible to many Dominant "voices". I cave-in -- in spite of my better judgement, not because i want to, it's because i "have" to. I used to hate myself for it. It's as if I was walking around in this flock of sheep, but i was the one who never seemed to simply run with the pack. A bit more pensive, more afraid, always comparing, pondering, trying to copy "normal" people in order to protect myself and hide... quote: ORIGINAL: SirCumsSlut quote: ORIGINAL: mysecret40 Very often when talking to Doms or just people in D/S, they ask, well what kind of sub are you? And there are so many different styles....one said I was a pleasure sub, one said I was a husbandry sub, one said I was a take in hand,...so I decided to do some reading and research. Came across a site for something called a "High" End submissive. I've never heard this one before...has anyone else? http://www.steel-door.com/High_End_Submissive.html this is the site....secret Have heard of it before, have been told it refers to subs that are looking for rich Doms..........they want a sugardaddy basically *SirCumsSlut, please do me the favor of checking out the site and definition before saying something so hurtful?* HURTFUL!!!!!! Don't see how my comment was hurtful in any way, but then again maybe I don't subscribe to the "higher end". I do not need to be a "high end" submissive. Only one voice triggers me, all others, unless instructed by my Sir, are ignored. My intention was not meant to be hurtful......tried checking the site and a trojan kept attacking my computer every time I did...........So please accept my apology for the misconception that I was GIVEN, NO OFFENSE WAS MEANT!!!!!!!!!!! But I will thank you for the clarification of the term.

flowered -> RE: High End Sub? (4/13/2006 4:33:53 PM)
quote: The article spends a great deal of time talking about the masks that a High End/High Need submissive wears without really talking about what is going on beneath the masks. As the article states, the mask is really an attempt at self-protection. It is an attempt that allows the high end/high need submissive remain in control of him or herself. But underneath the mask is the dual fear of being discovered for who and what they are, coupled with a deep desire to set that part of themselves free. "Their greatest fear and desire is to be recognized, properly identified." I wear a mask to the outside world that is of a very friendly but very flipant and sarcastic person...I am naturally friendly but the other parts are all from insecurities...but, my fear is not that beneath the mask will be recognized, but that it wont. lotsa love and laughs flowered

starymists -> RE: High End Sub? (4/13/2006 5:27:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: flowered I wear a mask to the outside world that is of a very friendly but very flipant and sarcastic person...I am naturally friendly but the other parts are all from insecurities...but, my fear is not that beneath the mask will be recognized, but that it wont. That was actually a quote from the article about the fear and desire, which, as I said, I thought was in a way, misleading. Based on my own experience, I believe that there is a continuum. Some subs are afraid of being missed because of the mask, some fear discovery and some fall somewhere between the two. But I did object to the premise that a high end or high need submissive doesn't have a choice to submit, because we all have that choice. I also tend to think that when the choice is made to submit for a high end/high need submissive, bad things happen if the Dominant involved doesn't know what he/she is dealing with and/or doesn't know how to address those insecurities in a way that assists the submissive feel nurtured and safe in that domination [:)]

mysecret40 -> RE: High End Sub? (4/13/2006 6:08:24 PM)
everyone's input is appreciated,..I think we all wear masks to a degree out in the world..but it is our secret selves we wish to confide in with our Dom/Master, or perhaps like minded people in D/S. For me I was discovered. My previous master was my mentor, my teacher,..he recognized my personality, character traits and nailed me. I do appear strong and confident, if not cocky to the outsiders. And yes...naturally rebellious. But I feel much more at ease, centered, and relieved with a Dom/Master in my life. Perhaps it is the "surrender" and trust given. http://www.steel-door.com/surrender.htmthis is the same site on surrender.secret

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