RE: Happy Meals under fire

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juliaoceania -> RE: Happy Meals under fire (6/23/2010 10:43:16 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sirsholly quote: I have posted about this before, but it is worth mentioning again, there are entire neighborhoods in this country where there is not ready access to grocery stores that sell fresh fruit and veggies, or meat for that matter...the local store is a liquor store of a 711. If you're a kid in a neighborhood like this your chances of becoming an obese adult skyrocket... there is food inequality in this country... Julia...you are blaming the neighborhood. If the only place a kid has to eat is 7-11, that is not the fault of the neighborhood. Move! Or, if moving is not possible, budget better. What the lil dude is going to spend for a snack and drink at the over-priced 7-11 in two days can be cab fare to the nearest grocery. And i understand the fresh stuff is so expensive and does not last, but there are alternatives such as frozen/canned veggies, etc that will last until the next cab ride. No local market does not cut it with me and i am stopping short of saying Lazy Parenting. Okay, lets just take all the people who live in such areas and move them.... they make little money, are clinging to their minimum wage jobs, they don't have first and last.... their family live in the area, but they are just supposed to magically move to the suburbs... And if they don't, fuck their kids... who cares if they have access to good food....geesh

AquaticSub -> RE: Happy Meals under fire (6/23/2010 10:43:40 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sirsholly And i understand the fresh stuff is so expensive and does not last, but there are alternatives such as frozen/canned veggies, etc that will last until the next cab ride. No local market does not cut it with me and i am stopping short of saying Lazy Parenting. Far beyond actually. Canned foods are safe for beyond their expiration date. I buy all my canned goods as a discount grocery store and get them for about 18 cents a can. Good stuff too. I don't always trust their meat but I'm often surprised by the quality of items they have.

AquaticSub -> RE: Happy Meals under fire (6/23/2010 10:48:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania And if they don't, fuck their kids... who cares if they have access to good food....geesh There is a difference between not caring and thinking that this isn't a solution. You are putting the blame everywhere but not seeming to expect any sort of responsiblity on part of the parents. It's their job to go "No you can't have money for 7-11 because we need to for a bus fare to the store". Sometimes being a parent sucks but the kids aren't entitled to treats.

sirsholly -> RE: Happy Meals under fire (6/23/2010 10:49:13 AM)
quote: hat there is one school in the city that I live in that serves 3 meals a day because of an after school program that was implemented to encourage parents in that area to work and not have to worry about finding daycare for their children................ So basically, someone other than the parents is feeding and caring for those children for 12 hours every weekday (the school opens it's doors at 6am for breakfast and the afterschool program closes at 6pm). And yet NONE of this has increased the ability (or the desire) for the inhabitants of that neighborhood to become gainfully employed. Instead, it is the highest crime and most infested drug area of this city See...there it is. Why should the parents seek employment? Think of how much money we all would have if we didn't have to feed our kids and pay for daycare? Hell...we could all work alot less than we now do. By caring for the children, the school district is perpetuating the problem. Yet, to stop perpetuating the problem, the kids will pay a heavy price. There are no answers that i know of.

sirsholly -> RE: Happy Meals under fire (6/23/2010 10:52:30 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania quote: ORIGINAL: sirsholly quote: I have posted about this before, but it is worth mentioning again, there are entire neighborhoods in this country where there is not ready access to grocery stores that sell fresh fruit and veggies, or meat for that matter...the local store is a liquor store of a 711. If you're a kid in a neighborhood like this your chances of becoming an obese adult skyrocket... there is food inequality in this country... Julia...you are blaming the neighborhood. If the only place a kid has to eat is 7-11, that is not the fault of the neighborhood. Move! Or, if moving is not possible, budget better. What the lil dude is going to spend for a snack and drink at the over-priced 7-11 in two days can be cab fare to the nearest grocery. And i understand the fresh stuff is so expensive and does not last, but there are alternatives such as frozen/canned veggies, etc that will last until the next cab ride. No local market does not cut it with me and i am stopping short of saying Lazy Parenting. Okay, lets just take all the people who live in such areas and move them.... they make little money, are clinging to their minimum wage jobs, they don't have first and last.... their family live in the area, but they are just supposed to magically move to the suburbs... And if they don't, fuck their kids... who cares if they have access to good food....geesh you are the one that mentioned 7-11. Where is the kid getting the $ to spend there? And i said "if they can't afford to move..." There ARE alternatives which you are blind to.Car pooling to the store, public transportation, a cab. "Fuck the kids" my Irish ass! No local market is not an excuse.

mistoferin -> RE: Happy Meals under fire (6/23/2010 10:55:59 AM)
quote: See...there it is. Why should the parents seek employment? Think of how much money we all would have if we didn't have to feed our kids and pay for daycare? Hell...we could all work alot less than we now do. Food and daycare heck! On Saturdays a local church group brings in truckloads of free clothing, household goods and furniture and distributes it to whoever shows up to get it. Nearly all of the housing in that neighborhood is paid for by the government. On top of that, the city has bulldozed many, many homes and donated entire blocks of land to be used as gardens for the residents to grow vegetables...even provided the seeds....and yet they are little more than weed fields. Trust me, I would NOT want to live in that neighborhood, it is ghetto at it's worst. But nearly everything there is paid for by someone other than the residents.

Mercnbeth -> RE: Happy Meals under fire (6/23/2010 10:56:23 AM)
quote: There are no answers that i know of. Sure there is - bill the parents. Happens all the time when there is a divorce, the daddy may go missing but when he shows up he's presented with a bill for his unpaid support. It also happens when a father is identified on a birth certificate. One of the reasons identified for so many single mothers is that by not listing a 'father' no individual is held financially responsible for government provided assistance for raising the child. The solution would be to run a tab for every government outlay and have it tapped every time someone goes to register a car, get a drivers license, or files a tax return. When parents realize their are no 'free lunches' perhaps they won't be so willing to abdicate their responsibilities.

mistoferin -> RE: Happy Meals under fire (6/23/2010 11:04:45 AM)
quote: Sure there is - bill the parents. But you can't get blood out of rocks. The government's solution to parents who don't pay support is to jail them. Well, that doesn't put any money into the hands of the custodial parent. There are no fathers in the neighborhood that I was speaking of. Not because they don't want to list them...usually because they can't even figure out who they are. Even if they did know who they are...it's not like they hold down jobs or even live at a particular address rather than just floating around. If the cops do catch up with them....hell, jail at least provides three hots and a cot. Ir's not like they are worried the state will withhold some professional license from them if they don't pay their support or fines....or even a driver's license. Heck, do you know how many crack rocks it takes to keep a car and insurance?

Mercnbeth -> RE: Happy Meals under fire (6/23/2010 11:10:06 AM)
quote: But you can't get blood out of rocks. The government's solution to parents who don't pay support is to jail them. Well, that doesn't put any money into the hands of the custodial parent. No, but not all children getting the meals in school has been parented by a 'rock'. Many are just unwilling to take on the responsibilities that come with raising their children. Originally, school lunch programs were set up to address the 'worst case' scenario you document. Now they are an expectation in every scenario. A LOT of billing and tracking goes unpaid. Unless you are saying that 100% of children receiving their meals in schools are coming from parents and neighbors you have in mind, there will be a positive impact not only on the cost of the program but on changing the entitlement mentality that currently exists.

mistoferin -> RE: Happy Meals under fire (6/23/2010 11:10:09 AM)
To add....on top of that, the jails here are filled to their max with criminals who don't qualify for early release because their crimes involved violence, weapons or drugs. These deadbeat fathers KNOW that if they get picked up for support, they will be right back out the door in a few days.

juliaoceania -> RE: Happy Meals under fire (6/23/2010 11:13:52 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mistoferin quote: See...there it is. Why should the parents seek employment? Think of how much money we all would have if we didn't have to feed our kids and pay for daycare? Hell...we could all work alot less than we now do. Food and daycare heck! On Saturdays a local church group brings in truckloads of free clothing, household goods and furniture and distributes it to whoever shows up to get it. Nearly all of the housing in that neighborhood is paid for by the government. On top of that, the city has bulldozed many, many homes and donated entire blocks of land to be used as gardens for the residents to grow vegetables...even provided the seeds....and yet they are little more than weed fields. Trust me, I would NOT want to live in that neighborhood, it is ghetto at it's worst. But nearly everything there is paid for by someone other than the residents. I am really proud of Long Beach and its attempts at revitalization. We do have community gardens here. We have mixed housing developments, etc.... I think this is very community based. In fact I would say that the answers are community based more than federal monies being pumped in without community input on how that money is to be used....but i suppose that is a different conversation... The point of this thread, should companies market kiddie crack using toys is like Joe Camel... there is no reason they pump that food full of crap other than to make it cheap and addictive...

mistoferin -> RE: Happy Meals under fire (6/23/2010 11:15:30 AM)
quote: Unless you are saying that 100% of children receiving their meals in schools are coming from parents and neighbors you have in mind, there will be a positive impact not only on the cost of the program but on changing the entitlement mentality that currently exists. Nope, not saying that at all and of course, you are right in that any positive impact that can take place should. But in my mind, that sense of entitlement starts when you are a small child and you have a parent that doesn't put their foot down and teach you that you are NOT entitled to have every single toy in the latest Happy Meal series. The problem as I see it is that it has gone on far too long...and how do you undo what has come to be viewed as entitlement?

sirsholly -> RE: Happy Meals under fire (6/23/2010 11:22:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth quote: But you can't get blood out of rocks. The government's solution to parents who don't pay support is to jail them. Well, that doesn't put any money into the hands of the custodial parent. No, but not all children getting the meals in school has been parented by a 'rock'. Many are just unwilling to take on the responsibilities that come with raising their children. Originally, school lunch programs were set up to address the 'worst case' scenario you document. Now they are an expectation in every scenario. A LOT of billing and tracking goes unpaid. Unless you are saying that 100% of children receiving their meals in schools are coming from parents and neighbors you have in mind, there will be a positive impact not only on the cost of the program but on changing the entitlement mentality that currently exists. so the parent will not pay and instead tells Jr not to eat the breakfast? Good in theory Merc, but again it is the kid that is paying the price.

Mercnbeth -> RE: Happy Meals under fire (6/23/2010 11:23:11 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania The point of this thread, should companies market kiddie crack using toys is like Joe Camel... there is no reason they pump that food full of crap other than to make it cheap and addictive... Really? The first paragraph of the link from the OP is this: Weeks after a Silicon Valley county became the first in the nation to ban toys from McDonald's Happy Meals and other food promotions aimed at children, a public health watchdog group called on the fast food giant to remove the playthings from all its meal packages. Unless the "Silicon Valley county" is a social group, government intervention is the topic submitting to the pressure of a "watchdog group" who believes they have a 'one true way' of feeding children which, based upon their action, the "Silicon Valley county" agrees. quote: ORIGINAL: mistoferin The problem as I see it is that it has gone on far too long...and how do you undo what has come to be viewed as entitlement? The answer is simple, perhaps a too simple to be considered - you end them. An alternative is what I suggested; make the people using them appreciate the cost and pass it on to the users. QED! quote: ORIGINAL sirsholly the parent will not pay and instead tells Jr not to eat the breakfast? Good in theory Merc, but again it is the kid that is paying the price. To eliminate "kids paying the price" eliminate the kids from the parents abusing them, or unable to provide for them since they are going hungry and refuse to reimburse the government for the cost of feeding their kids.

juliaoceania -> RE: Happy Meals under fire (6/23/2010 11:25:50 AM)
quote: Really? The first paragraph of the link from the OP is this: Weeks after a Silicon Valley county became the first in the nation to ban toys from McDonald's Happy Meals and other food promotions aimed at children, a public health watchdog group called on the fast food giant to remove the playthings from all its meal packages. Let me rephrase, the point of this thread is to ARGUE about whether or not we should allow companies to sell kiddie crack to kids....

sirsholly -> RE: Happy Meals under fire (6/23/2010 11:26:53 AM)
quote: Unless the "Silicon Valley county" is a social group, government intervention is the topic submitting to the pressure of a "watchdog group" who believes they have a 'one true way' of feeding children which, based upon their action, the "Silicon Valley county" agrees. why should the government have to intervene? Just stop buying it.

Mercnbeth -> RE: Happy Meals under fire (6/23/2010 11:29:37 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sirsholly quote: Unless the "Silicon Valley county" is a social group, government intervention is the topic submitting to the pressure of a "watchdog group" who believes they have a 'one true way' of feeding children which, based upon their action, the "Silicon Valley county" agrees. why should the government have to intervene? Just stop buying it. EXACTLY! However that would require responsible, good parents - apparently the Silicon Valley doesn't think that description applies to people living there and chose to make it a law. Says as much for their constituency as it does about the county representatives.

juliaoceania -> RE: Happy Meals under fire (6/23/2010 11:30:50 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sirsholly quote: Unless the "Silicon Valley county" is a social group, government intervention is the topic submitting to the pressure of a "watchdog group" who believes they have a 'one true way' of feeding children which, based upon their action, the "Silicon Valley county" agrees. why should the government have to intervene? Just stop buying it. I think that high fructose corn syrup should be outlawed. It isn't food, it is some chemically altered substance that interacts in the body in such a way that they suspect it causes people to become addicted to it, not to mention the body cannot break it down as well as simple sugars so it stores more readily as fat.... But you know, making companies responsible for the sludge they hide in our food is pretty unpopular with our government... since they get paid off by these same companies that are poisoning us and polluting not only our environment, but our bodies too

Mercnbeth -> RE: Happy Meals under fire (6/23/2010 11:34:25 AM)
quote: Let me rephrase, the point of this thread is to ARGUE about whether or not we should allow companies to sell kiddie crack to kids.... An easier solution would be to require a valid picture ID confirming the age of the purchaser. Although it may set up an underground economy for providing fake ID's to toddlers, most can't 'pass' the visual confirmation from their teething drool and is difficult to pull off. However, considering the position of the county officials concerning the ability of their constituent parents, maybe they've already thought about that idea and dismissed it knowing that servers at McDonald's, coming from the same parental pool, would be easily fooled!? quote: I think that high fructose corn syrup should be outlawed. What else do you feel should be "outlawed" to protect people from making bad personal choices? Or do you think the government now is the source of all that is good? The same source you previously represented in a negative light when you were not "...educated about it"; "I trusted the government. I trusted the FDA. I was living in a world where I had to put food on my table, work, take care of my son, and I did not have a mate to help with these tasks. I cringe at the crap I used to feed my son because I truly didn't know any better. I wasn't educated about it." You used "trusted" in past tense - yet now you want to trust them to outlaw certain foods and provide access to other foods. Do you trust this same source now in this case since they are doing what you feel is "right"?

mistoferin -> RE: Happy Meals under fire (6/23/2010 11:36:56 AM)
quote: quote: ORIGINAL: sirsholly why should the government have to intervene? Just stop buying it. quote: EXACTLY! However that would require responsible, good parents I'm pretty sure that's what I've been saying all along...

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