Unintended and Undeserved Consequences

Collarspace Discussion Forums

Home Login Search

Unintended and Undeserved Consequences

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Ask a Master >> Unintended and Undeserved Consequences

Page: [1] 2 3 4 5 next > >>

Login

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

Unintended and Undeserved Consequences - 6/24/2010 6:57:23 AM

Plasticine

Posts: 260
Joined: 6/9/2010
Status: offline

As a spin-off from the Prostitution thread... LadyPact brings up a valid point:

quote:

At the same time, I'm not going to sit here and say that I'm innocent of turning a phrase in the heat of the moment that's playing on the excitement of someone wanting to enjoy the kink of humiliation. Taken out of context, with a bit of drama added, I'm sure I could look pretty bad, too. All I'd need would be for someone to fuel it with their own emotions to create that particular slant.

This is a very real and upsetting scenario. I've already had a woman call me abusive for simply telling her a truth that she didn't want to hear. (i.e. an observation I made in conversation that offended a fragile ego, telling someone they are being childish for example) I know what I am doing, whether I am abusing or not, etc... How do you do damage control when someone is in denial?

< Message edited by Plasticine -- 6/24/2010 7:25:29 AM >

Post #: 1

RE: Unintended and Undeserved Consequences - 6/24/2010 7:28:19 AM

Andalusite

Posts: 2492
Joined: 1/25/2009
Status: offline

I'd say that is one of the risks of humiliation play. Just as with any kind of play, there's the potential for causing damage that wasn't intended. Hopefully, both people will give each other the benefit of the doubt and allow each other to clarify, and the pain would fade in time. You weren't deliberately abusing her - it's like if the two of you were wrestling around, and she fell funny and sprained her ankle. No abuse, no permanent harm intended, but she's still going to limp for a while and need some extra care.

(in reply to Plasticine)

Post #: 2

RE: Unintended and Undeserved Consequences - 6/24/2010 7:28:45 AM

crazyml

Posts: 5568
Joined: 7/3/2007
Status: offline

Out of interest, what was it you'd said?

(in reply to Plasticine)

Post #: 3

RE: Unintended and Undeserved Consequences - 6/24/2010 7:33:19 AM

Plasticine

Posts: 260
Joined: 6/9/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Andalusite

I'd say that is one of the risks of humiliation play. Just as with any kind of play, there's the potential for causing damage that wasn't intended. Hopefully, both people will give each other the benefit of the doubt and allow each other to clarify, and the pain would fade in time. You weren't deliberately abusing her - it's like if the two of you were wrestling around, and she fell funny and sprained her ankle. No abuse, no permanent harm intended, but she's still going to limp for a while and need some extra care.

I take your point, but in my example.. no damage was done. The person heard something they didn't like and jumped to the first wild emotional conclusion that best justified their reaction. It wasn't humiliation play it was just honest conversation. I know what I can do is limit my interaction with that person. But its easy to imagine scenarios in which such a person might attempt to undermine my integrity simply because they aren't honest with themselves. I guess you just have to hope that others see that person being just as deranged as you do.

(in reply to Andalusite)

Post #: 4

RE: Unintended and Undeserved Consequences - 6/24/2010 7:34:58 AM

Plasticine

Posts: 260
Joined: 6/9/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml

Out of interest, what was it you'd said?

I think it was when I suggested to her that she uses temper tantrums to get her way and that it was not constructive behavior.

(in reply to crazyml)

Post #: 5

RE: Unintended and Undeserved Consequences - 6/24/2010 7:50:08 AM

January

Posts: 891
Joined: 4/17/2004
Status: offline

quote:

I think it was when I suggested to her that she uses temper tantrums to get her way and that it was not constructive behavior.

So she threw another temper tantrum after you told her. Proving you right.

Interesting post! I guess I see this as a human interaction problem, not a BDSM issue. I suppose the effort I'd put into smoothing things over would be dependent on how important the relationship was. If it's your kid, it's one thing, if it's a second (and last) date, it's another.

January

_____________________________

[link: http://www.bookstrand.com/miss-you-sir] Miss You, Sir by January Rowe is available from Siren now! It's my latest smokin' hot bdsm romance.[/link]

(in reply to Plasticine)

Post #: 6

RE: Unintended and Undeserved Consequences - 6/24/2010 8:00:02 AM

crazyml

Posts: 5568
Joined: 7/3/2007
Status: offline

I'm with January on this. In this case you've provided some feedback - it's either fair or not (but only you and she can determine that) and it wouldn't be unreasonable for her to want to debate the issue with you - her reaction does seem to suggest that you had a point in the first place.

I would, however, sound a slight note of caution when you say " I know what I am doing, whether I am abusing or not, etc... ", I've no doubt your communication skills are superb - but I am also assuming that you wouldn't be so unwise as to believe that no-one ever gets the wrong impression from things that you say... There have been a couple times when I've had to provide some aftercare - where something said in the heat of the moment for one purpose was misconstrued.

(in reply to January)

Post #: 7

RE: Unintended and Undeserved Consequences - 6/24/2010 8:04:06 AM

Plasticine

Posts: 260
Joined: 6/9/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml
I am also assuming that you wouldn't be so unwise as to believe that no-one ever gets the wrong impression from things that you say... There have been a couple times when I've had to provide some aftercare - where something said in the heat of the moment for one purpose was misconstrued.

Absolutely. I am always monitoring very closely the internal responses I am getting and I attempt to squelch any controversy the moment it arises; However, there is no aftercare for denial except to back down from your position.

< Message edited by Plasticine -- 6/24/2010 8:06:49 AM >

(in reply to crazyml)

Post #: 8

RE: Unintended and Undeserved Consequences - 6/24/2010 8:17:53 AM

Andalusite

Posts: 2492
Joined: 1/25/2009
Status: offline

Well, I don't really see how that is connected to abuse or D/s, then. If I have a problem with someone's behaviour or attitude in vanilla circumstances, I generally try to be tactful about it. I agree it sounds like she didn't handle it well, but you were probably far too blunt to start with. If you walk up to someone who is overweight and tell them "You're fat, you need to lose weight," they'll probably get annoyed even if you're correct. It's not abusive per se, but it's rude. If you did that to someone you were dating, in a public place, she might well feel humiliated and devastated. There's a time and place for corrections of that sort. It sounds like this particular woman got defensive when you told her that she was throwing temper tantrums in order to get her way.

Assuming that you are right about that, in retrospect, can you think of a different way to phrase it that would have been more productive yet still gotten your point across? Were the two of you alone, or were there other people there? Is she someone you're in a relationship with, a friend, an acquaintance you only know in passing? If she is in denial about her behaviour, does it directly have an impact on you? If she accuses you of being abusive, are the people you both know likely to take her seriously, or are they just as aware of her temper-tantrums, or at least likely to ask for more details about what happened? Calling you abusive seems like a pretty major overreaction, but if she's really irrational, then engaging with her is just likely to lead to drama rather than a change in her approach to being thwarted.

(in reply to Plasticine)

Post #: 9

RE: Unintended and Undeserved Consequences - 6/24/2010 8:25:03 AM

Plasticine

Posts: 260
Joined: 6/9/2010
Status: offline

The conversation in question was probably by phone, if not by IM. It was completely private. She is someone who has consented to 'play' and may be getting overly attached. Her denial does not impact me but her behavior does. I care for her, I'd like to help her out of her mental jam but not at the expense of my reputation.

As for the rest of your question... That's my question! ;)

< Message edited by Plasticine -- 6/24/2010 8:30:59 AM >

(in reply to Andalusite)

Post #: 10

RE: Unintended and Undeserved Consequences - 6/24/2010 8:44:28 AM

leadership527

Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Plasticine
I think it was when I suggested to her that she uses temper tantrums to get her way and that it was not constructive behavior.

I dunno, I see two angles on this.

a) She's an unstable nut-job who freaks out at any sign of negative feedback.
b) You were insensitive/uncaring/inappropriate when you delivered that feedback.

Without being there, it could be either one. But it's worth pointing out, you're allegedly the dom in this situation. It's YOUR job to be in control of the situation and you lost that control. Especially given some of your previous statements on this board, you have to see this as a failure on your part. Obviously, you weren't monitoring closely enough.

Trying to make this sound less like an attack on you, which it is not. Were this me, I'd be reviewing in my head what I did wrong. Somehow, I achieved a result different than I wanted which means I failed. Almost certainly, it has to do with timing or else presuming a level of intimacy which just plain did not exist.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to Plasticine)

Post #: 11

RE: Unintended and Undeserved Consequences - 6/24/2010 8:59:05 AM

Plasticine

Posts: 260
Joined: 6/9/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

quote:

ORIGINAL: Plasticine
I think it was when I suggested to her that she uses temper tantrums to get her way and that it was not constructive behavior.
I dunno, I see two angles on this.

a) She's an unstable nut-job who freaks out at any sign of negative feedback.
b) You were insensitive/uncaring/inappropriate when you delivered that feedback.

Without being there, it could be either one. But it's worth pointing out, you're allegedly the dom in this situation. It's YOUR job to be in control of the situation and you lost that control. Especially given some of your previous statements on this board, you have to see this as a failure on your part. Obviously, you weren't monitoring closely enough.

Trying to make this sound less like an attack on you, which it is not. Were this me, I'd be reviewing in my head what I did wrong. Somehow, I achieved a result different than I wanted which means I failed. Almost certainly, it has to do with timing or else presuming a level of intimacy which just plain did not exist.

I'm leaning heavily toward option a. Obviously.

I have reviewed it in my head quite a lot actually. I was 'allegedly' a Dom with too much going on and someone trying to monopolize my time with drama. I was explaining why she was getting a negative response from me in the first place. At the time she apparently pretended to accept it as discipline... but has since tried to tell me that I was somehow cruel and abusive to do this. I don't have the will to control this person, it would be a full-time job. I haven't failed I just can't possibly devote that much to her. She isn't controlling herself at all and she is not mine.

Look I'm not claiming that I thought she was going to love the statement. I'm claiming that it was not in any way abuse just a real honest conversation.

Ed: Just assuming that I am an aware person and my version is reasonably accurate. My question was not about my behavior though I'm happy to review it. I'm just concerned that if I disconnect from this person while they hold their irrational 'abusive' idea that it may result in damaging and tiresome attempts at character assassination.

< Message edited by Plasticine -- 6/24/2010 9:09:20 AM >

(in reply to leadership527)

Post #: 12

RE: Unintended and Undeserved Consequences - 6/24/2010 9:15:01 AM

allthatjaz

Posts: 2878
Joined: 8/20/2008
Status: offline

If she was behaving like a child and throwing a tantrum then at the very least, she deserved to be told that she was being childish and was over reacting with tantrums. If this was a submissive person that I was working towards, the last thing I would be doing is treading on egg shells. Why should one have to mamby pamby around someone who is acting out of line just in case we offend them. I won't do that with vanilla people and I most certainly won't do it with my submissive! If she was offended then its her issue and not yours.
Perhaps she likes a fight? perhaps she's just argumentative? One thing for sure is, she used the one weapon she had and that was calling you abusive.

I have read some of your posts. I have seen you being attacked on some of those posts

but the impression I am getting is, your a thinking Dom. Your intelligent, forthright and have certainly given me the impression that you posses some very good leadership skills. Keep rocking and keep doing YOUR thing.

_____________________________

S&M (Steve and Maria) persona libre de convencionalismos

Fan of edgeplay.co.uk

(in reply to leadership527)

Post #: 13

RE: Unintended and Undeserved Consequences - 6/24/2010 10:01:08 AM

angelikaJ

Posts: 8641
Joined: 6/22/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Plasticine

As a spin-off from the Prostitution thread... LadyPact brings up a valid point:

quote:

At the same time, I'm not going to sit here and say that I'm innocent of turning a phrase in the heat of the moment that's playing on the excitement of someone wanting to enjoy the kink of humiliation. Taken out of context, with a bit of drama added, I'm sure I could look pretty bad, too. All I'd need would be for someone to fuel it with their own emotions to create that particular slant.

This is a very real and upsetting scenario. I've already had a woman call me abusive for simply telling her a truth that she didn't want to hear. (i.e. an observation I made in conversation that offended a fragile ego, telling someone they are being childish for example) I know what I am doing, whether I am abusing or not, etc... How do you do damage control when someone is in denial?

Perception is in the eyes/ears/mind of the beholder.

I am hypersensitive.
However, I acknowledge that I am such and accept the possibility that the other person may be very well be right.

_____________________________

The original home of the caffeinated psychotic hair pixies.
(as deemed by He who owns me)

http://www.collarchat.com/m_3234821/tm.htm

30 fluffy points!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQjuCQd01sg

(in reply to Plasticine)

Post #: 14

RE: Unintended and Undeserved Consequences - 6/24/2010 12:16:39 PM

leadership527

Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Plasticine
Ed: Just assuming that I am an aware person and my version is reasonably accurate. My question was not about my behavior though I'm happy to review it. I'm just concerned that if I disconnect from this person while they hold their irrational 'abusive' idea that it may result in damaging and tiresome attempts at character assassination.

*nods* No worries, I'm willing to assume that too. So my answer in this situation is, "let her do whatever it is that she wants to do.... far far away from me."

Little children playing little games are not perceived as potentially harmful/damaging/tiresome to me.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to Plasticine)

Post #: 15

RE: Unintended and Undeserved Consequences - 6/24/2010 1:02:53 PM

lally2

Posts: 2621
Joined: 4/16/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Plasticine
. I'm just concerned that if I disconnect from this person while they hold their irrational 'abusive' idea that it may result in damaging and tiresome attempts at character assassination.

to whom is she going to deflame youre good character?

what i dont understand is when you say you care about this person and want to help her out and yet you believe she is capable of being vindictive - i have to ask if youre attracted to nut jobs to be honest.

< Message edited by lally2 -- 6/24/2010 1:03:32 PM >

_____________________________

So all I have to do in order to serve him, is to work out exactly how improbable he is, feed that figure into the finite improbability generator, give him a fresh cup of really hot tea ... and turn him on!

(in reply to Plasticine)

Post #: 16

RE: Unintended and Undeserved Consequences - 6/24/2010 1:29:43 PM

Plasticine

Posts: 260
Joined: 6/9/2010
Status: offline

I am a nutjob. I attract other nutjobs. Its a matter of which types of nutjobs I am most compatible with. I don't expect myself to stop being a nutjob any time soon. Some nutjobs are such nutjobs that they can't even admit it. It comes with the territory. I'm looking for other self-aware nutjobs.

(in reply to lally2)

Post #: 17

RE: Unintended and Undeserved Consequences - 6/24/2010 1:32:25 PM

GrizzlyBear

Posts: 278
Joined: 3/26/2004
From: Missoula Montana
Status: offline

I forget who I heard this from but it seems like very good advice to me. "Never stick your dick in crazy."

You can't hope to fix emotionally or mentally damaged people unless you are a mental health professional. So don't try. And don't take them on as partners, that should go without saying. These are what are commonly referred to as Red Flags.

_____________________________

GrizzlyBear

"Come to the edge," he said.
They said, "We are afraid."
"Come to the edge," he said.
They came. He pushed them. And they flew.
~Guillaume Apollinaire

(in reply to lally2)

Post #: 18

RE: Unintended and Undeserved Consequences - 6/24/2010 1:34:02 PM

lally2

Posts: 2621
Joined: 4/16/2009
Status: offline

ah!! -

with me its eccentricity -

_____________________________

So all I have to do in order to serve him, is to work out exactly how improbable he is, feed that figure into the finite improbability generator, give him a fresh cup of really hot tea ... and turn him on!

(in reply to Plasticine)

Post #: 19

RE: Unintended and Undeserved Consequences - 6/24/2010 1:43:34 PM

LaTigresse

Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Plasticine

Look I'm not claiming that I thought she was going to love the statement. I'm claiming that it was not in any way abuse just a real honest conversation.

Ed: Just assuming that I am an aware person and my version is reasonably accurate. My question was not about my behavior though I'm happy to review it. I'm just concerned that if I disconnect from this person while they hold their irrational 'abusive' idea that it may result in damaging and tiresome attempts at character assassination.

If you are the aware person you claim to be, and you knew that she was not going to like the statement, how could you not think ahead and know she was going to freak out about it?

I am the master of knowing people's achilles heels and saying 'innocent' comments to purposely get to them. It's not my most flattering character trait but it's there none the less. I also acknowledge that when I do it, I have to own it and accept whatever flack I get for doing it.

You've said you are aware, you knew she wasn't going to like it. Now you have to 'man up' and own your shit and take the flack.

As an aside, if one wacko can assassinate your character, you've got bigger problems.

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to Plasticine)

Post #: 20

Page: [1] 2 3 4 5 next > >>

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Ask a Master >> Unintended and Undeserved Consequences

Page: [1] 2 3 4 5 next > >>

Jump to:

New Messages	No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages	Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages	Locked w/o New Messages

Post New Thread

Reply to Message

Post New Poll

Submit Vote

Delete My Own Post

Delete My Own Thread

Rate Posts

Collarchat.com © 2025

Terms of Service

0.094