Unintended and Undeserved Consequences

Unintended and Undeserved Consequences (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Ask a Master

Message

Plasticine -> Unintended and Undeserved Consequences (6/24/2010 6:57:23 AM)
As a spin-off from the Prostitution thread... LadyPact brings up a valid point: quote: At the same time, I'm not going to sit here and say that I'm innocent of turning a phrase in the heat of the moment that's playing on the excitement of someone wanting to enjoy the kink of humiliation. Taken out of context, with a bit of drama added, I'm sure I could look pretty bad, too. All I'd need would be for someone to fuel it with their own emotions to create that particular slant. This is a very real and upsetting scenario. I've already had a woman call me abusive for simply telling her a truth that she didn't want to hear. (i.e. an observation I made in conversation that offended a fragile ego, telling someone they are being childish for example) I know what I am doing, whether I am abusing or not, etc... How do you do damage control when someone is in denial?

Andalusite -> RE: Unintended and Undeserved Consequences (6/24/2010 7:28:19 AM)
I'd say that is one of the risks of humiliation play. Just as with any kind of play, there's the potential for causing damage that wasn't intended. Hopefully, both people will give each other the benefit of the doubt and allow each other to clarify, and the pain would fade in time. You weren't deliberately abusing her - it's like if the two of you were wrestling around, and she fell funny and sprained her ankle. No abuse, no permanent harm intended, but she's still going to limp for a while and need some extra care.

crazyml -> RE: Unintended and Undeserved Consequences (6/24/2010 7:28:45 AM)
Out of interest, what was it you'd said?

Plasticine -> RE: Unintended and Undeserved Consequences (6/24/2010 7:33:19 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Andalusite I'd say that is one of the risks of humiliation play. Just as with any kind of play, there's the potential for causing damage that wasn't intended. Hopefully, both people will give each other the benefit of the doubt and allow each other to clarify, and the pain would fade in time. You weren't deliberately abusing her - it's like if the two of you were wrestling around, and she fell funny and sprained her ankle. No abuse, no permanent harm intended, but she's still going to limp for a while and need some extra care. I take your point, but in my example.. no damage was done. The person heard something they didn't like and jumped to the first wild emotional conclusion that best justified their reaction. It wasn't humiliation play it was just honest conversation. I know what I can do is limit my interaction with that person. But its easy to imagine scenarios in which such a person might attempt to undermine my integrity simply because they aren't honest with themselves. I guess you just have to hope that others see that person being just as deranged as you do.

Plasticine -> RE: Unintended and Undeserved Consequences (6/24/2010 7:34:58 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: crazyml Out of interest, what was it you'd said? I think it was when I suggested to her that she uses temper tantrums to get her way and that it was not constructive behavior.

January -> RE: Unintended and Undeserved Consequences (6/24/2010 7:50:08 AM)
quote: I think it was when I suggested to her that she uses temper tantrums to get her way and that it was not constructive behavior. So she threw another temper tantrum after you told her. Proving you right. Interesting post! I guess I see this as a human interaction problem, not a BDSM issue. I suppose the effort I'd put into smoothing things over would be dependent on how important the relationship was. If it's your kid, it's one thing, if it's a second (and last) date, it's another. January

crazyml -> RE: Unintended and Undeserved Consequences (6/24/2010 8:00:02 AM)
I'm with January on this. In this case you've provided some feedback - it's either fair or not (but only you and she can determine that) and it wouldn't be unreasonable for her to want to debate the issue with you - her reaction does seem to suggest that you had a point in the first place. I would, however, sound a slight note of caution when you say " I know what I am doing, whether I am abusing or not, etc... ", I've no doubt your communication skills are superb - but I am also assuming that you wouldn't be so unwise as to believe that no-one ever gets the wrong impression from things that you say... There have been a couple times when I've had to provide some aftercare - where something said in the heat of the moment for one purpose was misconstrued.

Plasticine -> RE: Unintended and Undeserved Consequences (6/24/2010 8:04:06 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: crazyml I am also assuming that you wouldn't be so unwise as to believe that no-one ever gets the wrong impression from things that you say... There have been a couple times when I've had to provide some aftercare - where something said in the heat of the moment for one purpose was misconstrued. Absolutely. I am always monitoring very closely the internal responses I am getting and I attempt to squelch any controversy the moment it arises; However, there is no aftercare for denial except to back down from your position.

Andalusite -> RE: Unintended and Undeserved Consequences (6/24/2010 8:17:53 AM)
Well, I don't really see how that is connected to abuse or D/s, then. If I have a problem with someone's behaviour or attitude in vanilla circumstances, I generally try to be tactful about it. I agree it sounds like she didn't handle it well, but you were probably far too blunt to start with. If you walk up to someone who is overweight and tell them "You're fat, you need to lose weight," they'll probably get annoyed even if you're correct. It's not abusive per se, but it's rude. If you did that to someone you were dating, in a public place, she might well feel humiliated and devastated. There's a time and place for corrections of that sort. It sounds like this particular woman got defensive when you told her that she was throwing temper tantrums in order to get her way. Assuming that you are right about that, in retrospect, can you think of a different way to phrase it that would have been more productive yet still gotten your point across? Were the two of you alone, or were there other people there? Is she someone you're in a relationship with, a friend, an acquaintance you only know in passing? If she is in denial about her behaviour, does it directly have an impact on you? If she accuses you of being abusive, are the people you both know likely to take her seriously, or are they just as aware of her temper-tantrums, or at least likely to ask for more details about what happened? Calling you abusive seems like a pretty major overreaction, but if she's really irrational, then engaging with her is just likely to lead to drama rather than a change in her approach to being thwarted.

Plasticine -> RE: Unintended and Undeserved Consequences (6/24/2010 8:25:03 AM)
The conversation in question was probably by phone, if not by IM. It was completely private. She is someone who has consented to 'play' and may be getting overly attached. Her denial does not impact me but her behavior does. I care for her, I'd like to help her out of her mental jam but not at the expense of my reputation. As for the rest of your question... That's my question! ;)

leadership527 -> RE: Unintended and Undeserved Consequences (6/24/2010 8:44:28 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Plasticine I think it was when I suggested to her that she uses temper tantrums to get her way and that it was not constructive behavior. I dunno, I see two angles on this. a) She's an unstable nut-job who freaks out at any sign of negative feedback. b) You were insensitive/uncaring/inappropriate when you delivered that feedback. Without being there, it could be either one. But it's worth pointing out, you're allegedly the dom in this situation. It's YOUR job to be in control of the situation and you lost that control. Especially given some of your previous statements on this board, you have to see this as a failure on your part. Obviously, you weren't monitoring closely enough. Trying to make this sound less like an attack on you, which it is not. Were this me, I'd be reviewing in my head what I did wrong. Somehow, I achieved a result different than I wanted which means I failed. Almost certainly, it has to do with timing or else presuming a level of intimacy which just plain did not exist.

Plasticine -> RE: Unintended and Undeserved Consequences (6/24/2010 8:59:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: leadership527 quote: ORIGINAL: Plasticine I think it was when I suggested to her that she uses temper tantrums to get her way and that it was not constructive behavior. I dunno, I see two angles on this. a) She's an unstable nut-job who freaks out at any sign of negative feedback. b) You were insensitive/uncaring/inappropriate when you delivered that feedback. Without being there, it could be either one. But it's worth pointing out, you're allegedly the dom in this situation. It's YOUR job to be in control of the situation and you lost that control. Especially given some of your previous statements on this board, you have to see this as a failure on your part. Obviously, you weren't monitoring closely enough. Trying to make this sound less like an attack on you, which it is not. Were this me, I'd be reviewing in my head what I did wrong. Somehow, I achieved a result different than I wanted which means I failed. Almost certainly, it has to do with timing or else presuming a level of intimacy which just plain did not exist. I'm leaning heavily toward option a. Obviously. I have reviewed it in my head quite a lot actually. I was 'allegedly' a Dom with too much going on and someone trying to monopolize my time with drama. I was explaining why she was getting a negative response from me in the first place. At the time she apparently pretended to accept it as discipline... but has since tried to tell me that I was somehow cruel and abusive to do this. I don't have the will to control this person, it would be a full-time job. I haven't failed I just can't possibly devote that much to her. She isn't controlling herself at all and she is not mine. Look I'm not claiming that I thought she was going to love the statement. I'm claiming that it was not in any way abuse just a real honest conversation. Ed: Just assuming that I am an aware person and my version is reasonably accurate. My question was not about my behavior though I'm happy to review it. I'm just concerned that if I disconnect from this person while they hold their irrational 'abusive' idea that it may result in damaging and tiresome attempts at character assassination.

allthatjaz -> RE: Unintended and Undeserved Consequences (6/24/2010 9:15:01 AM)
If she was behaving like a child and throwing a tantrum then at the very least, she deserved to be told that she was being childish and was over reacting with tantrums. If this was a submissive person that I was working towards, the last thing I would be doing is treading on egg shells. Why should one have to mamby pamby around someone who is acting out of line just in case we offend them. I won't do that with vanilla people and I most certainly won't do it with my submissive! If she was offended then its her issue and not yours. Perhaps she likes a fight? perhaps she's just argumentative? One thing for sure is, she used the one weapon she had and that was calling you abusive. I have read some of your posts. I have seen you being attacked on some of those posts [8\|] but the impression I am getting is, your a thinking Dom. Your intelligent, forthright and have certainly given me the impression that you posses some very good leadership skills. Keep rocking and keep doing YOUR thing.

angelikaJ -> RE: Unintended and Undeserved Consequences (6/24/2010 10:01:08 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Plasticine As a spin-off from the Prostitution thread... LadyPact brings up a valid point: quote: At the same time, I'm not going to sit here and say that I'm innocent of turning a phrase in the heat of the moment that's playing on the excitement of someone wanting to enjoy the kink of humiliation. Taken out of context, with a bit of drama added, I'm sure I could look pretty bad, too. All I'd need would be for someone to fuel it with their own emotions to create that particular slant. This is a very real and upsetting scenario. I've already had a woman call me abusive for simply telling her a truth that she didn't want to hear. (i.e. an observation I made in conversation that offended a fragile ego, telling someone they are being childish for example) I know what I am doing, whether I am abusing or not, etc... How do you do damage control when someone is in denial? Perception is in the eyes/ears/*mind* of the beholder. I am hypersensitive. However, I acknowledge that I am such and accept the possibility that the other person may be very well be right.

leadership527 -> RE: Unintended and Undeserved Consequences (6/24/2010 12:16:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Plasticine Ed: Just assuming that I am an aware person and my version is reasonably accurate. My question was not about my behavior though I'm happy to review it. I'm just concerned that if I disconnect from this person while they hold their irrational 'abusive' idea that it may result in damaging and tiresome attempts at character assassination. nods No worries, I'm willing to assume that too. So my answer in this situation is, "let her do whatever it is that she wants to do.... far far away from me." Little children playing little games are not perceived as potentially harmful/damaging/tiresome to me.

lally2 -> RE: Unintended and Undeserved Consequences (6/24/2010 1:02:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Plasticine . I'm just concerned that if I disconnect from this person while they hold their irrational 'abusive' idea that it may result in damaging and tiresome attempts at character assassination. to whom is she going to deflame youre good character? what i dont understand is when you say you care about this person and want to help her out and yet you believe she is capable of being vindictive - i have to ask if youre attracted to nut jobs to be honest.

Plasticine -> RE: Unintended and Undeserved Consequences (6/24/2010 1:29:43 PM)
I am a nutjob. I attract other nutjobs. Its a matter of which types of nutjobs I am most compatible with. I don't expect myself to stop being a nutjob any time soon. Some nutjobs are such nutjobs that they can't even admit it. It comes with the territory. I'm looking for other self-aware nutjobs.

GrizzlyBear -> RE: Unintended and Undeserved Consequences (6/24/2010 1:32:25 PM)
I forget who I heard this from but it seems like very good advice to me. "Never stick your dick in crazy." You can't hope to fix emotionally or mentally damaged people unless you are a mental health professional. So don't try. And don't take them on as partners, that should go without saying. These are what are commonly referred to as Red Flags.

lally2 -> RE: Unintended and Undeserved Consequences (6/24/2010 1:34:02 PM)
ah!! - [:D] with me its eccentricity - [:)]

LaTigresse -> RE: Unintended and Undeserved Consequences (6/24/2010 1:43:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Plasticine Look I'm not claiming that I thought she was going to love the statement. I'm claiming that it was not in any way abuse just a real honest conversation. Ed: Just assuming that I am an aware person and my version is reasonably accurate. My question was not about my behavior though I'm happy to review it. I'm just concerned that if I disconnect from this person while they hold their irrational 'abusive' idea that it may result in damaging and tiresome attempts at character assassination. If you are the aware person you claim to be, and you knew that she was not going to like the statement, how could you not think ahead and know she was going to freak out about it? I am the master of knowing people's achilles heels and saying 'innocent' comments to purposely get to them. It's not my most flattering character trait but it's there none the less. I also acknowledge that when I do it, I have to own it and accept whatever flack I get for doing it. You've said you are aware, you knew she wasn't going to like it. Now you have to 'man up' and own your shit and take the flack. As an aside, if one wacko can assassinate your character, you've got bigger problems.

Page: [1] 2 3 4 5 next > >>

Collarchat.com © 2025

Terms of Service

0.03125