RE: Immigrant farm workers' challenge: Take our jobs

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RE: Immigrant farm workers' challenge: Take our jobs - 6/26/2010 10:09:02 PM

kdsub

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Glad to hear it... It’s unusual for anyone to agree with me...

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RE: Immigrant farm workers' challenge: Take our jobs - 6/26/2010 10:11:38 PM

seekingOwnertoo

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyCimarron

quote:

ORIGINAL: seekingOwnertoo

I am thinking ... I agree ... you make some good points here ....

Problem I see ... is agricultural workers are exempt from minimum wage laws in the USA ... and ... unlike restaurant workers ... there are NO tips .... health care or anything ...

That could be solved in 1 year. Let them go one year without the use of illegal workers and with American workers refusing to do the job for substandard wages. They will ante up or lose their crops.

It is kind of a clusterfuck dilemma ... between the cost of food to the consumer ... and illegal immigration.

I think in the long run illegal aliens are costing us more. But I could be wrong.

Being from the Northern USA ... close to the Canadian border ... I believe your reasoning ... is more DISRUPTIVE to our local economy ... than supportive.

It may be. I really don't know if it will help or hurt us; but we should at least try something. (boy does that sound desperate or what!)

After all we are worried about importing ... hockey players!

Lady C ... i really do not know the cost of illegal immigration ... either ...

But i am sure ... the consumer will be PO'ed ... so no real action will happen by politicians ...

This is an abortion type issue ...

Meaning: even when a party has the power ... nothing happens ... because they would lose a ralling point to the party faithful.

That is all this issue is, too ... IMO

So I am back to worrying about the best hockey players ... from that country to the south ...

getting into ... Detroit!

< Message edited by seekingOwnertoo -- 6/26/2010 10:23:28 PM >

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RE: Immigrant farm workers' challenge: Take our jobs - 6/27/2010 12:18:47 AM

seekingOwnertoo

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quote:

that country to the south ...

getting into ... Detroit!

Guess ... you all play trivial pursuit, too! At least at one time ...

The answer ... is NOT Mexico ....

And frankly ... this illegal immigration thing is immaterial to us.

A total waste of time.

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RE: Immigrant farm workers' challenge: Take our jobs - 6/27/2010 12:50:35 AM

tazzygirl

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A few years back, Bush attempted to make being here illegally a felony. Legal immigrants marched on many cities. I remember this because the company i worked for offered us the day off if we wanted to march as well.

We have become a society that is controlled by votes. Doesnt matter who is voting. If it gains a party a vote, they are all for it.

Many cite the fact that illegals spend their money here. Do they? Most that i know sleep 10 - 12 to a house, saving the majority of what they make to send "home" to their families. They spend only what they need to live here, the rest goes out of country.

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RE: Immigrant farm workers' challenge: Take our jobs - 6/27/2010 1:16:23 AM

seekingOwnertoo

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

become a society that is controlled by votes. Doesnt matter who is voting. If it gains a party a vote, they are all for it.

Tazzy ... you nailed this ... pure and simple.

Total disdain for the public good.

Only ... my opinion poll ... my image ... and how many will vote this way! There are No Profiles in Courage, left in America, today!

Alas, I simply refer you to one, who predicted this could happen ...

Thinking the name is ... Nietzsche ... and he seems to have had ... a high disdain for selfish, self centered people ...

which, if i understand it correctly, is what he thought would result from democracy.

And if my take is correct ... he appears to have nailed it ... too!

< Message edited by seekingOwnertoo -- 6/27/2010 1:33:33 AM >

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RE: Immigrant farm workers' challenge: Take our jobs - 6/27/2010 1:19:52 AM

tazzygirl

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Self-centered has become the mantra of our society. You see it in the greed on wall street, you see it in the glazed looks in the eyes of young adults who actually have to work to pay for their cell phone bill, you hear about it in the whining of the graduates who believe they are entilted to a well paying job simply because they have a college degree, and you feel it in the apathetic way we have accepted the lack of responsibility on all levels, work, government and home.

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Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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RE: Immigrant farm workers' challenge: Take our jobs - 6/27/2010 1:32:29 AM

seekingOwnertoo

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Self-centered has become the mantra of our society. You see it in the greed on wall street, you see it in the glazed looks in the eyes of young adults who actually have to work to pay for their cell phone bill, you hear about it in the whining of the graduates who believe they are entilted to a well paying job simply because they have a college degree, and you feel it in the apathetic way we have accepted the lack of responsibility on all levels, work, government and home.

Dang ... I like you!

You have a brilliant mind!

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RE: Immigrant farm workers' challenge: Take our jobs - 6/27/2010 4:27:29 AM

thompsonx

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Here is how it works brain…I have a strawberry farm in Missouri lets say. In my area there may be a few unemployed people but not enough to harvest my crop in the required time. Of course people living full time in my area are looking for and or employed in professions that will provide income all year so they know a job with me is strictly temporary and will not provide for their family.

They cannot stop their work and harvest my crop so we need migrate workers.

Obviously you have no clue about how to farm strawberries. They do not all ripen at once and,like coffee, need to picked daily through out the season.

BUT

Now my teen son has graduated school and is looking for a full time job. Not too many years ago if he did not want to continue his education he would have taken a roofing or landscape job…or maintenance at the local Walmart or McDonalds… Not great work but a living. Now however these businesses for the sake of profit no longer hire locals but illegal workers they can pay, often below minimum wage, without documentation, benefits and social security taxes.

For fucks sake lets try to keep your analogy going in a straight line. Above you cite migrant workers and now you are citing illegal aliens...they are not and never have been the same.

If you don’t believe me go to most any apartment complex in your area and see who is cutting the grass…Or find a roofer at work and see who is nailing the shingles.

There is a problem...not their fault, they are just trying to provide for their families…but they ARE taking jobs from ours.

I have mentioned more than once that the simple way to stop illegal immigration is to enforce the extant laws against employers but you like the rest of the bigots on the board keep ignoring it.

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RE: Immigrant farm workers' challenge: Take our jobs - 6/27/2010 7:24:47 AM

thishereboi

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quote:

I really don't think they want to live here.
Didn't you just post a thread on how everyone wants to live there?

I think they should be allowed to come here legally to take these jobs at normal wages if they want them and then they can go back to their country when all the fruits and vegetables are picked.
That’s how they do it in Canada.
Well if that is how they do it in Canada why say you think that is what they should do? You just said they already do.

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RE: Immigrant farm workers' challenge: Take our jobs - 6/27/2010 9:48:08 AM

rulemylife

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

A few years back, Bush attempted to make being here illegally a felony. Legal immigrants marched on many cities. I remember this because the company i worked for offered us the day off if we wanted to march as well.

We have become a society that is controlled by votes. Doesnt matter who is voting. If it gains a party a vote, they are all for it.

Many cite the fact that illegals spend their money here. Do they? Most that i know sleep 10 - 12 to a house, saving the majority of what they make to send "home" to their families. They spend only what they need to live here, the rest goes out of country.

This was never Bush's idea and he never came out in support of it.

If you recall, his ideas were opposed by many Republicans.

There were also many Republicans in Congress who opposed making illegal immigration a felony.

Not that I think any of this was out of compassion for illegals, rather a philosophy that the economy is being helped by these low-wage workers.

Bush proposes legal status for illegal immigrants - Politics

WASHINGTON — President Bush called for a major overhaul of America’s immigration system Wednesday to grant legal status to millions of undocumented workers in the United States, saying the current program was not working.

USATODAY.com - GOP leaders oppose immigration felony

In an unusual joint news release late Tuesday, Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist, R-Tenn., and House Speaker Dennis Hastert, R-Ill., declared their intention "to produce a strong border security bill that will not make unlawful presence in the United States a felony."

USATODAY.com - Bush seeks changes in immigration as issue

Bush, who pushed for changes in immigration law in his weekend radio address, is at odds with some in his party, including House Judiciary Chairman F. James Sensenbrenner, R-Wis., who wrote the House bill.

Bush says he supports the hiring of more border agents and the use of technology, such as infrared cameras and unmanned aerial vehicles, to catch people sneaking into the country. He also wants an expanded guest-worker program to fill jobs Americans won't take and favors allowing immigrants who are now here illegally to apply for the program.

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RE: Immigrant farm workers' challenge: Take our jobs - 6/27/2010 10:13:06 AM

kdsub

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Hi thompsonx

So you believe migrate workers are not used to harvest strawberries? Sometimes you talk without thinking.

I am saying we need legal migrate workers but don't need illegal aliens to take entry level jobs...my analogies can’t be straighter.

We have always agreed on enforcement of laws… I just believe they need to be stronger for a real deterrent.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 6/27/2010 10:14:27 AM >

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RE: Immigrant farm workers' challenge: Take our jobs - 6/27/2010 10:30:28 AM

tazzygirl

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I think thompsons point, and im sure he will speak up if im wrong, is that we have effective and deterring laws already. The problem is they are not being enforced. We can write new laws, but they arent even bothering to enforce the old ones.

I would go as far as to make using someone else's SS number a felony because its impacting someone's life negatively. Make it a felony on both ends, the worker and the employer.

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Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
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Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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RE: Immigrant farm workers' challenge: Take our jobs - 6/27/2010 10:39:00 AM

kdsub

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

I think thompsons point, and im sure he will speak up if im wrong, is that we have effective and deterring laws already. The problem is they are not being enforced. We can write new laws, but they arent even bothering to enforce the old ones.

I would go as far as to make using someone else's SS number a felony because its impacting someone's life negatively. Make it a felony on both ends, the worker and the employer.

Thanks tazzygirl...no need to speak for thompson that’s for sure...lol. He and I have argued about the existing laws and how effective they are. I believe he is right they do need to be enforced...BUT... for big companies with lots of money they are not strong enough... They can easily claim they had no knowledge and dump it on low level supervisors. And even if convicted the fines are pennies to them far less then they save by breaking the law.

I feel laws for employers should be severe such as 20 years without parole to be an effective deterrent. But as T says they are useless unless enforced. We agree he just likes to argue.

imagine that.

< Message edited by kdsub -- 6/27/2010 10:51:40 AM >

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I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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RE: Immigrant farm workers' challenge: Take our jobs - 6/27/2010 10:44:52 AM

willbeurdaddy

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Its not a "felony" but it IS a Federal crime, punishable by fines and/or imprisonment. A distinction without a difference.

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RE: Immigrant farm workers' challenge: Take our jobs - 6/27/2010 11:24:11 AM

tazzygirl

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Thanks tazzygirl...no need to speak for thompson that’s for sure...lol. He and I have argued about the existing laws and how effective they are. I believe he is right they do need to be enforced...BUT... for big companies with lots of money they are not strong enough... They can easily claim they had no knowledge and dump it on low level supervisors. And even if convicted the fines are pennies to them far less then they save by breaking the law.

I feel laws for employers should be severe such as 20 years without parole to be an effective deterrent. But as T says they are useless unless enforced. We agree he just likes to argue. imagine that.

A large corporation who has only a handful of illegals can get by with that pass. Entering a plant where 60 - 80 percent if the employees are illegal wont wash. And thats a huge fine. Not to mention the law provides for the seizure of the corporate assets, including the physical building.

It doesnt require new laws, merely the balls to enforce the old ones. But, because politicians are everywhere, including police at local, state and federal levels, i dont forsee this happening.

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Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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RE: Immigrant farm workers' challenge: Take our jobs - 6/27/2010 11:43:06 AM

kdsub

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I agree but I don't understand the reason they are not being enforced...you and I and the majority of Americans want them enforced... Why are they not?

I believe they are too vague and ineffectual wording like this

”Anyone employing or contracting with an illegal alien without verifying his work authorization status is guilty of a misdemeanor”

and

$250 to $2,000 fine for each unauthorized individual;

These are not tough enough even with fines… as far as I know there has been no imprisonment for the likes of Walmart and Sam’s even though the law allows it.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 6/27/2010 11:46:04 AM >

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I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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RE: Immigrant farm workers' challenge: Take our jobs - 6/27/2010 2:05:19 PM

rulemylife

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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

Its not a "felony" but it IS a Federal crime, punishable by fines and/or imprisonment. A distinction without a difference.

Really?

So a federal crime is indistinguishable from a felony?

Please share with us your vast legal expertise and explain how that is when there are clearly federal laws that are considered misdemeanors.

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RE: Immigrant farm workers' challenge: Take our jobs - 6/27/2010 2:27:18 PM

Fellow

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quote:

workers are teaming up with comedian Stephen Colbert to challenge unemployed Americans: Come on, take our jobs.

This is just for propaganda purposes. The workers join Colbert as they know Americans are a bunch of unorganized wimps and bozos and nothing will happen in reality. Things are not yet bad enough to wake American zombies up.

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RE: Immigrant farm workers' challenge: Take our jobs - 6/27/2010 2:45:56 PM

rulemylife

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Fellow

quote:

workers are teaming up with comedian Stephen Colbert to challenge unemployed Americans: Come on, take our jobs.

This is just for propaganda purposes. The workers join Colbert as they know Americans are a bunch of unorganized wimps and bozos and nothing will happen in reality. Things are not yet bad enough to wake American zombies up.

That was an interesting series of statements completely without a point, other than to bash Americans.

So, is there a point?

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RE: Immigrant farm workers' challenge: Take our jobs - 6/27/2010 3:13:14 PM

Fellow

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quote:

So, is there a point?

I thought it was obvious: there was really not a "challenge" offered. Go to takeourjobs.org and you will find out yourself. The statement one must make ("I want to be a farm worker") is nonsense. List there concrete jobs including the location, wages, job description and so on. Then there will be no problem and legal residents will sign up.

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