RE: Conservatives, what is it about socialism?

RE: Conservatives, what is it about socialism? (Full Version)

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kdsub -> RE: Conservatives, what is it about socialism? (6/27/2010 9:53:03 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Moonhead In that light, should Americans be quite so dismissive of the notion of a system that's going to force people into employment? Historically Communist and Statist governments have taken a very dim view indeed of people who refuse to make any effort to help the state. I'm not sure what you mean in the first part but for the second you point out one of the reasons socialism does not work...someone else is determining what helps the state in many circumstances. Butch

kdsub -> RE: Conservatives, what is it about socialism? (6/27/2010 9:56:23 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Moonhead There is that, but it's hardly been administered effectively over the last twenty years either, has it? Don't get me wrong... I am all for healthcare reform...and I think Obama's sponsored bill is worth a try and wait and see. Butch

flcouple2009 -> RE: Conservatives, what is it about socialism? (6/27/2010 10:17:34 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic quote: ORIGINAL: flcouple2009 All you need to do is watch and listen to footage from any of the Tea Party Events. Alrighty then, Flco, if those are the rules you wish to work with, then we can just paint all Democrats with this, right? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P36x8rTb3jI Or do you have a different set of rules that you apply to people you agree with? You so funny. Youi really want to compare 1 edited clip to the hundreds of signs and comments that have come from the Tea party rallies? You wanna try again?

willbeurdaddy -> RE: Conservatives, what is it about socialism? (6/27/2010 10:54:18 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MidwestFlyer6666 Screw the conservatives,and screw the republicans,and screw anybody who is either a conservative or a republican. I personally don't care what you think or say,and i don't care what the stinking republicans or conservatives say or think. Thats the way it is. Maybe you'll care when we own Congress again. Thats the way it WILL be.

Moonhead -> RE: Conservatives, what is it about socialism? (6/27/2010 11:33:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub quote: ORIGINAL: Moonhead In that light, should Americans be quite so dismissive of the notion of a system that's going to force people into employment? Historically Communist and Statist governments have taken a very dim view indeed of people who refuse to make any effort to help the state. I'm not sure what you mean in the first part but for the second you point out one of the reasons socialism does not work...someone else is determining what helps the state in many circumstances. Butch Sorry that wasn't clear. There's been a lot of cussing and moaning lately from Americans on the right (and a fair few of the more libertarian/neocon elements in here) about social security and the terrible threat to the American way posed by spongers and freeloaders who should be cut off and have to work for a living. I was just pointing out that most "socialist" systems historically have actually done that (in extreme cases shooting people or locking them up), rather than providing a dole and housing benefit like European democracies. I just observed that the "weelfare is evil" lot should be a bit more supportive of the sort of Statist junta where socialism is used as an excuse to force people into work, dig?

kdsub -> RE: Conservatives, what is it about socialism? (6/27/2010 11:59:33 AM)
I get ya now. But too extreme for me either way and not the feeling of true conservatives... hell or liberals either . I think it is more along the lines of wanting people who are truly disabled taken care of but those freeloading on our good will made to go back to work. Nothing wrong with this thought but things tend to go to the extremes when arguing politics. I’ll bet if you got the most extreme Republican alone and asked if a person truly disabled deserved help they would say yes. Then get an extreme Democrat alone and ask if those not disabled and on disability should be made to go to work they would say yes. See what I mean? It is only in politics that good sense gets lost. Butch

Musicmystery -> RE: Conservatives, what is it about socialism? (6/27/2010 12:02:56 PM)
quote: Maybe you'll care when we own Congress again. Thats the way it WILL be. I haven't seen any signs you've learned anything since the last time you were thrown out. No new policies. No new plans. No new Middle East/Central Asia strategies. No recovery plans. No oil clean-up insights. No effective regulation proposals. No ideas at all beyond trying to kill social programs by privatizing them, cutting taxes to funnel funds and power to the wealthy, and opposing anything whatsoever from an opposition that finally learned its lesson and pursues accomplishments without you. You're a recipe for more unfunded revenue reduction further adding to a runaway deficit, creating more recessions you can no longer buy your way out of with monetary policy, crying horror to steamroll more regulations and controls over Wall St., banking, oil, natural gas and coal, further ignoring the looming health care crisis by reversing what progress has been made, and using your time in power not to advance the interests of the country but to scheme how to solidify your power. And oh yeah, we still haven't invaded North Korea or Iran. Hell, what's an underclass for, if not cannon fodder? The only suspense is what faux moral nightmare you'll invent to fire up the more manipulable of your base going into the election. Pass.

Moonhead -> RE: Conservatives, what is it about socialism? (6/27/2010 12:02:56 PM)
I hear you.

willbeurdaddy -> RE: Conservatives, what is it about socialism? (6/27/2010 12:03:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub Then get an extreme Democrat alone and ask if those not disabled and on disability should be made to go to work they would say yes. Butch I believe you are wrong about that.

Elisabella -> RE: Conservatives, what is it about socialism? (6/27/2010 2:45:10 PM)
quote: As Firmhand pointed out Capitalism is a system to fit the view that the essence of human behaviour is individual freedom.....Socialism fits the view that the essence of human behaviour is the right to a certain standard of living at the expense of individual freedom My husband hates smoking, and we sometimes argue over whether it should be banned. I say if a person wants to kill themselves, they should be able to, but the one thing he says that always gets me is "yes but they drain the resources of Medicare when they do" and I really never know how to respond to that. I think national healthcare is a great thing but at the same time I think that the more government programs take care of people, the more they will limit people's freedom, and it seems as though they have the right to do so. And that annoys me. When taken to the extreme, the "right to a certain standard of living" seems to turn into "a responsibility to the state to maintain a certain standard of living" and my inner anarchist seethes with impotent violent rage at that.

Moonhead -> RE: Conservatives, what is it about socialism? (6/27/2010 2:50:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Elisabella quote: As Firmhand pointed out Capitalism is a system to fit the view that the essence of human behaviour is individual freedom.....Socialism fits the view that the essence of human behaviour is the right to a certain standard of living at the expense of individual freedom My husband hates smoking, and we sometimes argue over whether it should be banned. I say if a person wants to kill themselves, they should be able to, but the one thing he says that always gets me is "yes but they drain the resources of Medicare when they do" and I really never know how to respond to that. I think national healthcare is a great thing but at the same time I think that the more government programs take care of people, the more they will limit people's freedom, and it seems as though they have the right to do so. And that annoys me. When taken to the extreme, the "right to a certain standard of living" seems to turn into "a responsibility to the state to maintain a certain standard of living" and my inner anarchist seethes with impotent violent rage at that. So, would you and your other half be happy with paying a much higher tax on tobacco, that approaches paying for the medical care that goes to smokers?

Elisabella -> RE: Conservatives, what is it about socialism? (6/27/2010 2:52:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Moonhead So, would you and your other half be happy with paying a much higher tax on tobacco, that approaches paying for the medical care that goes to smokers? I can't answer for him but I would definitely be okay with that.

Moonhead -> RE: Conservatives, what is it about socialism? (6/27/2010 2:55:43 PM)
Fair enough. I always find the whole "I pay for medical care through the tax on fags" argument a bit unconvincing: twenty years on a couple of packets a day won't even pay for the anesthetist you'll need for a tracheotomy, let alone anything more elaborate.

LadyEllen -> RE: Conservatives, what is it about socialism? (6/27/2010 3:13:16 PM)
Perhaps MH, though one should need to do the math..... For certain is that most smokers will die early and thereby save the NHS a fortune in terms of care they might have received in old age such that the tax paid on tobacco represents a clear profit to the system. As an additional plus your kids will inherit more too because youll die early enough that youll avoid selling your assets to pay for old age care. If you want to play your part in restoring national fortunes ("we're all in this together" remember) then I suggest you take up smoking. Give it a try and you'll soon be on 20 a day and can build from there. As an encouragement, bear in mind that if you do make it to retirement and the actuaries know youre a smoker your pension fund will go much further as theyll expect you to cark it within 5 years tops. Smoking - a public duty everyone can take part in; good for you, good for your kids and good for the nation E this message not brought to you by the Tobacco Growers & Manufacturing Association. Bastards ought to be paying me but you know what theyre like eh?

Politesub53 -> RE: Conservatives, what is it about socialism? (6/27/2010 4:03:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub Then get an extreme Democrat alone and ask if those not disabled and on disability should be made to go to work they would say yes. Butch I believe you are wrong about that. And you are wrong again Willbur. Those in favour of benefit in the UK aslo think that they should only go to those that truly need help. No doubt you will give me some bullshit about American Democrats not thinking the same, then argue with those that prove you wrong. Im still waiting for your definition of socialism. It wont be correct but I could do with a laugh.

DarlingSavage -> RE: Conservatives, what is it about socialism? (6/27/2010 5:25:10 PM)
Conservatives, what is it about socialism? ETA cause I thought I found a better video of this, but it wasn't the whole video.

Owner59 -> RE: Conservatives, what is it about socialism? (6/27/2010 5:26:37 PM)
[:D]

DarlingSavage -> RE: Conservatives, what is it about socialism? (6/27/2010 5:35:17 PM)
Conservatives, what is it about socialism?

willbeurdaddy -> RE: Conservatives, what is it about socialism? (6/27/2010 6:12:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub Then get an extreme Democrat alone and ask if those not disabled and on disability should be made to go to work they would say yes. Butch I believe you are wrong about that. And you are wrong again Willbur. Those in favour of benefit in the UK aslo think that they should only go to those that truly need help. No doubt you will give me some bullshit about American Democrats not thinking the same, then argue with those that prove you wrong. Im still waiting for your definition of socialism. It wont be correct but I could do with a laugh. I cant speak for the UK, nor can I speak about Dems in general. I can tell you that the liberals I know, who arent even that extreme, would argue vehemently in favor of not forcing people on welfare to work. The definition of socialism can be found in most basic economic text books, and if you can find one that defines it in terms of "care for the less fortunate" go for it.

thishereboi -> RE: Conservatives, what is it about socialism? (6/28/2010 5:15:14 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Moonhead quote: ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY quote: ORIGINAL: MidwestFlyer6666 Screw the conservatives,and screw the republicans,and screw anybody who is either a conservative or a republican. I personally don't care what you think or say,and i don't care what the stinking republicans or conservatives say or think. Thats the way it is. Can't you just feel the love of humanity from our leftist brethren? [8D] Firm Tarring all of the left with the same brush again, and assuming that one meanspirited random poster speaks for the whole liberal massmind, LimpWrist? What a surprise. I wonder if that'll stop you throwing a histrionic shitfit the next time somebody makes a generalisation about Republicans? He has been watching you and practicing.

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