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Conservatives, what is it about socialism? - 6/26/2010 6:33:41 AM   
DarkSteven


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Status: offline 		There seems to be a visceral response toward the concept of socialism by conservatives.

I personally have no issues with it, except that it doesn't work and tends to destroy an economy.

Is that the objection?  Or is "socialism" considered a euphemism for "higher taxes"?

What is the basis of the dislike?


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RE: Conservatives, what is it about socialism? - 6/26/2010 6:36:16 AM   
TheHeretic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

it doesn't work and tends to destroy an economy.





That isn't enough?




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RE: Conservatives, what is it about socialism? - 6/26/2010 6:59:55 AM   
FirmhandKY


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic


quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

it doesn't work and tends to destroy an economy.



That isn't enough?

Sums it up pretty well for me.

Except I'd add that it also destroys the human spirit.

Firm


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RE: Conservatives, what is it about socialism? - 6/26/2010 7:13:41 AM   
flcouple2009


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Status: offline 		Yet they always accuse the French of being socialist which kind of mutes that argument doesn't it.

First you have to start with the fact that many of our friendly conservatives use Marxist, Communist, and Socialist interchangeably.  That leaves a point where you have to ask if they actually understand any of the 3. 

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RE: Conservatives, what is it about socialism? - 6/26/2010 7:17:02 AM   
mnottertail


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic


quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

it doesn't work and tends to destroy an economy.





That isn't enough?





American Capitalism isn't king of the hill at the mo.   Now China.....

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RE: Conservatives, what is it about socialism? - 6/26/2010 7:35:57 AM   
FirmhandKY


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quote:

ORIGINAL: flcouple2009

Yet they always accuse the French of being socialist which kind of mutes that argument doesn't it.

First you have to start with the fact that many of our friendly conservatives use Marxist, Communist, and Socialist interchangeably.  That leaves a point where you have to ask if they actually understand any of the 3. 

hmmm. sounds like a challenge, based on your ignorance and bias.

Please show me where I've discussed the French as being socialist.  I rarely talked about the French at all.  Or was your "reply to" in error?  We certainly can talk about it if you wish, however.

Also, you've never read any of my my detailed discussions about Marxism, Communism or Socialism, since they haven't occurred since you've been active on the forums.

Now, if you were juliaoceania, we would just go back to our thread where we discussed it for a massive number of pages.  She has the intellectual heft to discuss them.  You, not so much, I think.

If you wish to know what you are talking about, rather than squirting shit out of your ass and calling it "thought", maybe you can find it in the "Search" function, and educate yourself a little.

dumbass

Firm

< Message edited by FirmhandKY -- 6/26/2010 7:38:11 AM >

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RE: Conservatives, what is it about socialism? - 6/26/2010 7:53:32 AM   
Louve00


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Status: offline 		I'm not taking sides here, but looking at who they posted under, it may have seemed like they were responding to you, when they were actually just responding to the thread.  I have had a couple of people jump my shit because I posted to a thread and it happened to be under their post (because they were the last poster) and it looked like I was replying to them so they came back and said something about it.  People are so touchy about that, that I've tried to make a point I was not responding to anyone in particular, but not always do I remember to take their assumptions into account.  But who know's.  Since I'm really not taking any sides, they might have been responding to you, Firm.  And if so, it sounds like you're armed and ready to debate! 

**editted to add....now if they'd have replied to you, under someone else's post then you could be sure they were targetting you.  I've had people respond "in reply to Louve" three pages after I posted a post and swore they weren't replying to me.  So I guess...stranger things have happened.

< Message edited by Louve00 -- 6/26/2010 7:56:19 AM >

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RE: Conservatives, what is it about socialism? - 6/26/2010 7:58:23 AM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

I personally have no issues with it, except that it doesn't work



No system 'works' and others fail....there are flaws in all of them......

If you're going to say the fall of the Soviet Bloc means Socialism failed.....then you'd have to argue that the move towards government intervention in more than just defence and justice must mean that Capitalism failed too. I suppose you could say that the former disappeared without a trace and the latter evolved.....but it was a significant step away from the idea that society 'works' when left to the devices of the free market.

I think enterprise is essential.....but so is investment in your people. Socialism doesn't allow for the former and the free market doesn't allow for the latter (to an extent). So a balance somewhere in between sounds about right.

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RE: Conservatives, what is it about socialism? - 6/26/2010 7:58:54 AM   
FirmhandKY


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Louve00

I'm not taking sides here, but looking at who they posted under, it may have seemed like they were responding to you, when they were actually just responding to the thread.  I have had a couple of people jump my shit because I posted to a thread and it happened to be under their post (because they were the last poster) and it looked like I was replying to them so they came back and said something about it.  People are so touchy about that, that I've tried to make a point I was not responding to anyone in particular, but not always do I remember to take their assumptions into account.  But who know's.  Since I'm really not taking any sides, they might have been responding to you, Firm.  And if so, it sounds like you're armed and ready to debate! 

**editted to add....now if they'd have replied to you, under someone else's post then you could be sure they were targetting you.  I've had people respond "in reply to Louve" three pages after I posted a post and swore they weren't replying to me.  So I guess...stranger things have happened.

It's possible, Louve.

flcouple, however, seems to take great joy in following me around the forums, and telling me how ignorant I am, so perhaps I'm a little more prepared to diss him than I should be.

Apologies to him, if you are correct.

Firm


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RE: Conservatives, what is it about socialism? - 6/26/2010 8:04:37 AM   
TheHeretic


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Status: offline 		But she's also a complete cunt, so we need to deduct a couple points for that



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RE: Conservatives, what is it about socialism? - 6/26/2010 8:04:53 AM   
Louve00


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Status: offline 		And that is another thing entirely.  I have seen people on this board follow posters just to get their jabs in at them.  Not cool at all.

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RE: Conservatives, what is it about socialism? - 6/26/2010 8:07:05 AM   
Louve00


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

But she's also a complete cunt, so we need to deduct a couple points for that




hehe...if that remark was aimed at me, then consider my nick.  Louve is an archaic french term for a female wolf.  So I'll accept bitch as a compliment, thank you very much! 

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RE: Conservatives, what is it about socialism? - 6/26/2010 8:07:48 AM   
willbeurdaddy


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France isnt socialist, theyre just piss poor capitalists.

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RE: Conservatives, what is it about socialism? - 6/26/2010 8:12:06 AM   
TheHeretic


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From: California, USA
Status: offline 		No, Louve, it wasn't.

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RE: Conservatives, what is it about socialism? - 6/26/2010 8:50:51 AM   
flcouple2009


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: Louve00

I'm not taking sides here, but looking at who they posted under, it may have seemed like they were responding to you, when they were actually just responding to the thread.  I have had a couple of people jump my shit because I posted to a thread and it happened to be under their post (because they were the last poster) and it looked like I was replying to them so they came back and said something about it.  People are so touchy about that, that I've tried to make a point I was not responding to anyone in particular, but not always do I remember to take their assumptions into account.  But who know's.  Since I'm really not taking any sides, they might have been responding to you, Firm.  And if so, it sounds like you're armed and ready to debate! 

**editted to add....now if they'd have replied to you, under someone else's post then you could be sure they were targetting you.  I've had people respond "in reply to Louve" three pages after I posted a post and swore they weren't replying to me.  So I guess...stranger things have happened.

It's possible, Louve.

flcouple, however, seems to take great joy in following me around the forums, and telling me how ignorant I am, so perhaps I'm a little more prepared to diss him than I should be.

Apologies to him, if you are correct.

Firm



I wasn't aware I ever followed you around the forum

Thanks for the apology since she was in fact correct.

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RE: Conservatives, what is it about socialism? - 6/26/2010 8:59:38 AM   
Arpig


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quote:

except that it doesn't work and tends to destroy an economy.
Tell that to the Swedes

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RE: Conservatives, what is it about socialism? - 6/26/2010 9:01:15 AM   
Musicmystery


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Status: offline 		What is it with this running persecution meme from some posters? Man. See a counselor.

To the discussion (what little there is of it) -- pure socialism, yes, doesn't work well; neither does pure capitalism, especially in an industrial society. That's why we all have mixed economies, with both socialist and capitalist elements, and have for over a century.

The "Socialism!" and similar cries are not economic arguments (nor are they intended to be), but rather political rallying cries directed at policies that threaten conservative's status quo. We've talked about this before, including generating a list of positive accomplishments all opposed at the time (including with the same cry of "Socialism!").

Other than a call to partisan arms, it's meaningless, not even a political philosophy---conservatives are plenty interested in government control when it favors their agenda.

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RE: Conservatives, what is it about socialism? - 6/26/2010 9:24:50 AM   
TheHeretic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

Tell that to the Swedes



And quickly, before the last of them commit suicide

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RE: Conservatives, what is it about socialism? - 6/26/2010 9:55:47 AM   
Arpig


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Status: offline 		I know I shouldn't laugh at that, but.....LMFAO!!!

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RE: Conservatives, what is it about socialism? - 6/26/2010 10:06:22 AM   
brainiacsub


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From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline 		FR~

I think it's a combination of generational attitudes and education. If you look at the demographic of the conservatives today, including many of the regulars in these forums, most are over 40 and grew up during the Cold War. How many of us over 40 don't remember reading Animal Farm in middle or high school and the indelible impact it had on our worldview? Communism was the great threat of our generation. Flcouple is correct - Communism, Socialism, and Marxism are synonymous for many of that generation, especially for those who never made a conscious effort to understand geo-politics beyond Animal Farm.

I suspect we'll see history repeat itself with the next generation. The 9/11 and War on Terrorism veterans will have a tremendous impact on shaping the political landscape for many years to come in a way that will be in conflict with the attitudes and worldviews of the post 9/11 generation. In 25 or 30 years, "terrorism (ie, Islam)" will be the new "socialism (ie, Communism)."

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