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Hands Off Social Security: There Are Better Ways to Cut... - 6/27/2010 10:46:46 AM   
Brain


Posts: 3792
Joined: 2/14/2007
Status: offline 		I'm not happy about this because my aunts need their Social Security money to live. They' paid into it working all their lives in clothing factories and they are entitled to get back their money. I don't think doing this is going to be good for anyone’s popularity - after everything else that has happened this is really too much. They have a lot of nerve, all the money that has been spent on wars, like the money grows on trees, and now they want to pay for it with people’s Social Security.
Bill


FTA:

"It's an illusion that cutting Social Security would reduce the deficit. The new report does not point out that the money seniors have given to Social Security keeps it solvent through 2043, and after that 80 percent funded, it's a propaganda fraud for defunders.

Moreover, that future shortfall is only a blip - a point missed by nearly all media. After the Baby Boomers reap their Social Security benefits, since those Boomers have had the fewest children ever (2.1 per couple vs. the current 2.7 rate), the system will return to full solvency because it will pay benefits to fewer people.

To cut a national deficit by cutting Social Security, which does not have a deficit, is theft from seniors who have paid in. If a bank told a customer, "Sorry. We've spent your money on other items," would anyone accept that or say: "Fine, you made money on my money but you still owe me mine. Pay up."

The debt commission is littered with politicians and industry CEOs who have a history of wanting to scale back Social Security benefits. House Judiciary Committee Chairman John Conyers, D-Mich., told us in an interview, "The commission is loaded with billionaires who want to convert Social Security's money to business."

Commission Co-chairman Erskine Bowles is linked to Wall Street as a Morgan Stanley board member, and Honeywell CEO David Cote to the defense industry, both of which would benefit from Social Security's money. Will these captains of industry stand up for people who need Social Security the most? Or look for ways to transfer its money to defense and stocks?

Co-chairman Alan Simpson, along with Dave Camp, Judd Gregg, Tom Coburn and Mike Crapo, made statements supporting cutting or privatizing Social Security. Sen. Richard Durbin told "bleeding-heart liberals" to be open to Social Security cuts. Alice Rivlin co-authored a 2005 report titled Restoring Fiscal Sanity that advocated $47 billion in entitlement cuts, including an "increase in the retirement age under Social Security."


Hands Off Social Security: There Are Better Ways to Cut the National Debt

The Social Security Trustees' Annual Report on the program's finances comes out Wednesday, delayed from March by the health bill. It will be turned into a marketing tool by advocates of cutting Social Security to reduce the national debt.

Among those, the president's newly appointed National Commission on Fiscal Reform (the "debt commission") is threatening to strangle the economic lifeblood of seniors by denying the solvency of Social Security and then using the solvent funds for other purposes.

http://www.truth-out.org/hands-off-social-security-there-are-better-ways-cut-national-debt60808
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RE: Hands Off Social Security: There Are Better Ways to... - 6/27/2010 10:58:42 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		This is a HUGE issue.    I fear tho- that it wont work out.

Chapman predicts that current people on SS will be cut by 1/2- 2/3.   I do not mean new people.  I mean current people would see the benefits drop by 1/2-2/3.

He says- expect is when the DOW drops to 4k.   6 months later pensions will be cut- and shortly after that SS will be.

If anyone would like a comp pfd of his drop me an email addy.

(in reply to Brain)
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RE: Hands Off Social Security: There Are Better Ways to... - 6/27/2010 11:17:16 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
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Status: offline 		The DOW peaked to almost 14000 in 2005, dropped to almost 7000 in 2009 and went back up to a current of just over 10000. When does sage Alex believe this 4000 number will hit?

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RE: Hands Off Social Security: There Are Better Ways to... - 6/27/2010 11:25:56 AM   
DarkSteven


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Status: offline 		The first thing to understand is what SS actually is.  It is simply a transfer of payments from those who are now working, to those who used to work.  In flush times, there was a surplus in SS, and the government simply spent it on whatever it wanted instead of escrowing the money.  So the very minute that the government has more claims SS than is going into it, it will go insolvent.  If any other trustee did that, they would be criminally liable.

So there are two issues with SS.  The first is that it will require funds to keep the obligations paid.  The second is that the places that did rely on it for their funding, have no funds.

I say, begin to pay for it by diverting the money that should go to Congressional, Senatorial, and Presidential pensions.  If they can divert earmarked money, why not us?

After that, force the US to live on a budget like the rest of us have to.





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RE: Hands Off Social Security: There Are Better Ways to... - 6/27/2010 1:56:23 PM   
Brain


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Joined: 2/14/2007
Status: offline 		It’s supposed to be in safe in investments not in the stock market, so I hope this info about going to 4,000 is wrong.

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RE: Hands Off Social Security: There Are Better Ways to... - 6/27/2010 2:13:11 PM   
Brain


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It seems from the article it’s only temporary and will go back into surplus and they’re just using this excuse to get their hands on the loot. They say they want to reduce the budget deficit but it looks like what they really want is to get the money in the hands of Wall Street – greedy bastards, they stole enough already.

And they can start to live on a budget like the rest of us by stopping the wasting of money on war to accomplish nothing.

quote:

After that, force the US to live on a budget like the rest of us have to.

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RE: Hands Off Social Security: There Are Better Ways to... - 6/27/2010 3:45:18 PM   
Arpig


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Status: offline 		You are constantly bitching about how much the US is spending on its wars...why don't we ever see you bitching about what Canada is spending on its war...granted its only 1 war and we don't spend near as much as the US, but we are still pouring treasure we can't afford into Afghanistan....

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RE: Hands Off Social Security: There Are Better Ways to... - 6/27/2010 3:56:57 PM   
servantforuse


Posts: 6363
Joined: 3/8/2006
Status: offline 		Something will have to give with Social security. A cut in benefits, raising taxes once again on fewer workers who pay for it, and raising the age for elegibal to collect. When millions of 'baby boomers' retire in the next several years the current funding system will certainly go broke, and sooner rather than later.

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RE: Hands Off Social Security: There Are Better Ways to... - 6/27/2010 4:09:14 PM   
housesub4you


Posts: 1879
Joined: 4/2/2008
Status: offline 		We here this same thing every election year, SS needs to end, we can't afford it anymore. 

If SS was simply paid back the money our government borrowed from it, it would be fine.  Perhaps they can also raise the limit on income that is taxed for SS, it stops at $99,999.00

Now when SS started this was a very high salary, but not today.  So perhaps they can raise the limit up to $199,999.00  and no this is not a tax increase on the rich.  You only pay SS tax up to the limit the rest of your salary is not taxed for SS.  You then can drwa based on what you paid in.

(in reply to Brain)
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RE: Hands Off Social Security: There Are Better Ways to... - 6/27/2010 4:11:30 PM   
Brain


Posts: 3792
Joined: 2/14/2007
Status: offline 		I hope they don't do it cutting people's pensions and Social Security but it looks like they are setting us up to get their hands on the money.


G20 agrees to cut deficits in half by 2013: Merkel

(AFP) – 9 hours ago
TORONTO — The most industrialized members of the G20 will agree Sunday to strive to cut their deficits in half between now and 2013, German Chancellor Angela Merkel told reporters.

"This will be part of the final document," Merkel said, as she and her fellow leaders arrived at the G20 summit venue in downtown Toronto for their second and final day of talks.

Merkel came to Canada determined to defend the decision by several European governments to slash public deficits, despite fears in Washington and other G20 capitals that this will stifle growth.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5hNdo7eWgaHYCYFCqtrcpOIODjQZQ

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RE: Hands Off Social Security: There Are Better Ways to... - 6/27/2010 4:51:12 PM   
Brain


Posts: 3792
Joined: 2/14/2007
Status: offline 		Believe me; I am very unhappy with the Liberals and the Conservatives in Canada and the money they have spent in Afghanistan, $20 billion. Especially because they say they don’t have money for healthcare but then they find 20 billion to spend over there.

I'm sick with multiple sclerosis and I want to do this operation in Canada to stop the disease, an angioplasty of the veins in the neck, but they won’t spend the money to do it now - they want to take 10 years doing clinical trials and I don't have time to wait for that. So I'm going to Germany to do it over there. I found it a doctor to do it and they won’t pay for it over here - reimburse the money I spend. Somebody else tried and she was denied.

I complain every day to people I meet about Canadian healthcare and the conservative government. They could also have used that money for prescription drugs and long-term care for seniors. Instead, they give it to poppy growing scumbags so they won’t plant roadside bombs.

By the way, how is that socialized Communist medicine you benefit from and others don’t, working out for you Dick Cheney?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

You are constantly bitching about how much the US is spending on its wars...why don't we ever see you bitching about what Canada is spending on its war...granted its only 1 war and we don't spend near as much as the US, but we are still pouring treasure we can't afford into Afghanistan....


(in reply to Arpig)
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RE: Hands Off Social Security: There Are Better Ways to... - 6/27/2010 4:58:25 PM   
servantforuse


Posts: 6363
Joined: 3/8/2006
Status: offline 		Raising the limit to $200,000 would be a drop in the bucket. For one thing very few people make that kind of money.

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RE: Hands Off Social Security: There Are Better Ways to... - 6/28/2010 6:05:00 AM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Brain

Believe me; I am very unhappy with the Liberals and the Conservatives in Canada and the money they have spent in Afghanistan, $20 billion. Especially because they say they don’t have money for healthcare but then they find 20 billion to spend over there.
But not mad enough to start a thread on the subject?

I'm sick with multiple sclerosis and I want to do this operation in Canada to stop the disease, an angioplasty of the veins in the neck, but they won’t spend the money to do it now - they want to take 10 years doing clinical trials and I don't have time to wait for that. So I'm going to Germany to do it over there. I found it a doctor to do it and they won’t pay for it over here - reimburse the money I spend. Somebody else tried and she was denied.
And yet all the threads you have started on health care were about how terrible the US was and how wonderful Canada's system was. And now you have to go to Germany to get help? Interesting.

I complain every day to people I meet about Canadian healthcare and the conservative government. They could also have used that money for prescription drugs and long-term care for seniors. Instead, they give it to poppy growing scumbags so they won’t plant roadside bombs.
And again, no threads started on the subject. Maybe if Sarah moved to Canada?

By the way, how is that socialized Communist medicine you benefit from and others don’t, working out for you Dick Cheney?
You are comparing Arpig to Dick? You do realize he is Canadian, right?



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RE: Hands Off Social Security: There Are Better Ways to... - 6/28/2010 6:24:17 AM   
DarkSteven


Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline 		Actually, the title of this thread indicates the problem.

"Here is a problem.  This is the solution proposed.  There are better means than the proposed solution."  Way too myopic.

The problem is that there are issues which all of us would love to address, and the money to deal with them is finite.  Nobody has formally prioritized the issues and pegged dollar figures to their fixes, in light of the resources which must be committed to other things.  Which is odd, because this happens in the private sector all the time and is the preferred method of budgeting.




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RE: Hands Off Social Security: There Are Better Ways to... - 6/28/2010 6:29:44 AM   
Archer


Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline 		Brain you don't really have the information correct AGAIN.

Social Security money is not in a good safe investment.
All surplus money from Social Security has been "loaned" to the US government and spent to support programs in the regular budget.
The "trust fund" is holding a pocket full of Government IOUs, from a government who can't balance their budget as it is and has been using the surplus from the trust fund to do that so far.

The idea that the system will somehow balance itself again once the baby boomers quit collecting ignores a really basic premise. at the start of SSI there were 10 workers paying the social security for one beneficiary, that rate has dropped in recent times to 2:1 and will soon be reaching the point of 1:3 or even more according to many estimates.

ONE worker having to pay the social security benefits for 3 or 4 beneficiaries. So tell me how that is gong to work?
They will soon have to satart including a budget line item for paying back the loans the Government has taken on Social Security Trust Funds. Which means two things Not only has the additional "Free money" run out but the bill is now coming due meaning some other program is going to have to be cut to pay this, or the taxes will have to be raised.

There is only one thing holding the benefits of SS open for the people. And it's not law, nothing stops the Govenment from simply saying OK folks the system failed you get no benefits cause the trust fund is broke. The one thing they fear that is keeping them from that is votes.



< Message edited by Archer -- 6/28/2010 6:38:40 AM >

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RE: Hands Off Social Security: There Are Better Ways to... - 6/28/2010 6:57:16 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		debt is an "asset"

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RE: Hands Off Social Security: There Are Better Ways to... - 6/28/2010 7:14:14 AM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

  In flush times, there was a surplus in SS, and the government simply spent it on whatever it wanted instead of escrowing the money.

 




Non SS spending would have been spent with or without SS. SS funds were invested. How the investors spent the money has nothing to do with SS as long as they paid/pay the interest on the loan, any more than a bank has anything to say about how you spend the proceeds of your personal loan.

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RE: Hands Off Social Security: There Are Better Ways to... - 6/28/2010 7:17:02 AM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer

Brain you don't really have the information correct AGAIN.

Social Security money is not in a good safe investment.

All surplus money from Social Security has been "loaned" to the US government and spent to support programs in the regular budget.
The "trust fund" is holding a pocket full of Government IOUs, from a government who can't balance their budget as it is and has been using the surplus from the trust fund to do that so far.





You contradict yourself. Money has been loaned to the US Government which is still considered the safest investment in the world.

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RE: Hands Off Social Security: There Are Better Ways to... - 6/28/2010 7:18:30 AM   
LadyEllen


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From: Stourport-England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

Non SS spending would have been spent with or without SS. SS funds were invested. How the investors spent the money has nothing to do with SS as long as they paid/pay the interest on the loan, any more than a bank has anything to say about how you spend the proceeds of your personal loan.


Your banks take no interest in what you want a personal loan for? They just lend the money? No wonder they got so many delinquent accounts.

E

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RE: Hands Off Social Security: There Are Better Ways to... - 6/28/2010 7:23:18 AM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

Non SS spending would have been spent with or without SS. SS funds were invested. How the investors spent the money has nothing to do with SS as long as they paid/pay the interest on the loan, any more than a bank has anything to say about how you spend the proceeds of your personal loan.


Your banks take no interest in what you want a personal loan for? They just lend the money? No wonder they got so many delinquent accounts.

E


Your banks restrict your credit card purchases?

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