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RE: Why are so many non-Believers so narrow minded? - 7/1/2010 8:49:54 PM   
LanceHughes


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Joined: 2/12/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: LanceHughes

tazzygirl:

Once again, I'm amazed at your lack of logic.  Please go take a basic, basic class in logical thought and how to argue.  One of my favorite tag lines here says "Don't come to an intellectual battle without any weapons."  or words to that effect.

Its your favorite tag line and you cant remember it? Tsk tsk. Getting up there in years?


Well, just because you asked so nicely (NOT!) I did a little research and came up with:

Do not challenge me to a battle of wits & come to fight unarmed.

I said "One of my favorite....."
You said "Its your favorite...."

First off, the contradiction "it's" stands for "it is."  I'm sure that's what you meant instead of the possesive "Its" that you used.

Secondly, I'll guess you meant the contradiction of "can not" which is "can't" instead of the noun "cant" which is defined as "stock phrases that have become nonsense through endless repetition" or the verb "cant" which is defined as "To speak in a whining voice, or an affected, singsongtone."

Punctuation aside, you can't even recite back what you read a moment before.
"One of my favorite tag lines...." is VERY, very different from "My favorite tag line...."  At worst, you make your lack of reading comprehension obvious:  At best, you are purposefully misquoting me to make some logical argument, and thereby prove my point that your logic skills are lacking.

Which is it?  Are you not able to read correctly or are you making flawed logical arguments?  Maybe, just maybe, both? Either way, there are ways to improve.

To answer your specific question regarding my age: Yes, I am "getting up there in years."  Last March, I turned 60 years old.  As to your implication that older folks have worse memories, in general, that's simply not true.  However, in my specific case, I was recently (last week) tested for some memory problems that have recently cropped up.  Those problems are (as it turns out) not due to advanced years, but are probably the first signs of Alzeheimer's.  My Mom is in a dementia unit, and at 89 years old is in great physical shape, so she's probably not got Alzeheimer's. (Mental and physical decline go hand-in-hand if the diagnosis is Alzeheimer's)  Her Mother did have (we're pretty sure) Alzeheimer's.  Can't be certain - this was before blood tests for brain chemicals and the sort, but the mental, physical and behavorial patterns were there.

Your main logic error was trying for an ad hominen argument.  Those arguments are not permittted in "real" debates, and are not really useful here, but (as you are now aware), can sometimes back-fire.


< Message edited by LanceHughes -- 7/1/2010 9:09:16 PM >

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RE: Why are so many non-Believers so narrow minded? - 7/1/2010 9:23:17 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		As far as grammar...

"Train 'em the right way - my way." Lance Hughes

You have no room to talk.

So crawl back under your bed and tuck yourself to sleep with the few lingering memories you may still have, big boy. You are an angry, bitter man with no desire to improve or help anyone and only a desire to lash out at people you do not know, that you do not care about, and that you view as insignificant or "less" than you.

i can almost pity you... if you werent such an utter asshole.

And, btw, its alzheimers

< Message edited by tazzygirl -- 7/1/2010 9:31:48 PM >

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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RE: Why are so many non-Believers so narrow minded? - 7/1/2010 10:32:45 PM   
LanceHughes


Posts: 4737
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

As far as grammar...

"Train 'em the right way - my way." Lance Hughes

You have no room to talk.

So crawl back under your bed and tuck yourself to sleep with the few lingering memories you may still have, big boy. You are an angry, bitter man with no desire to improve or help anyone and only a desire to lash out at people you do not know, that you do not care about, and that you view as insignificant or "less" than you.

i can almost pity you... if you werent such an utter asshole.

And, btw, its alzheimers


I never called you any names as you seem to like to do to me. That is a very common technique when one's errors are pointed out.  And name-calling is a subset of the ad hominen argument.

What you point out as a grammatical error in my tag line is nothing of the sort.  It's an indication of the Western dialect I speak. There are quotes marks around the sentence to indicate that. As for the misspellings of Alzheimer's, thanks for pointing that out.  But, in return, I must point out that the word is to be capitalized since it's a man's name, and needs an apostrophe since it's possessive (being the short form of "Alzheimer's disease.")

< Message edited by LanceHughes -- 7/1/2010 10:45:39 PM >

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RE: Why are so many non-Believers so narrow minded? - 7/1/2010 10:42:45 PM   
LanceHughes


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
<snipped>

So crawl back under your bed......

<snipped>

Did you mean

So crawl back into your bed......

-OR-

did you mean

So crawl back under your bedclothes...... ?

"Crawl back under your rock" might have been more in keeping with the meaning of the rest of your nasty, insulting (and I might add) WAAAaaaay off thread post.  Just sayin'

And BTW, you never did answer my question about which you were - low scoring in reading comprehension or high scoring in making illogical arguments? 

< Message edited by LanceHughes -- 7/1/2010 10:47:37 PM >

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RE: Why are so many non-Believers so narrow minded? - 7/1/2010 10:46:12 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		You never called me names, simply implied i was stupid. Along with a few others.

Marini

quote:

Ah, so you are happy being mentally ill? Again, we have professionals for that sort of "happiness."


quote:

And if you think they are talking to you.... why, we have professionals that can help you with those voices in your head.



seekingOwnertoo

quote:

I find that (in general) they are ignorant of the scientific method and its benefits and results, they are illogical in discussions of belief vs. non-belief, they are condenscending toward non-believers, they are inconsistent in their belief systems, and they are dishonest in their presentations thereof.


You are simply getting back what you give. My tone can change, and quite quickly, as soon as yours does. This isnt the first time either, Lance. We have butted heads before.

And i did mean back UNDER your bed. That is where my little boy hid when he feared the monsters in the closet. You seem to have many of those fears.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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Profile   Post #: 165
RE: Why are so many non-Believers so narrow minded? - 7/1/2010 10:56:16 PM   
LanceHughes


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Joined: 2/12/2004
Status: offline 		Nope.  Not getting back what I gave.  I have pointed out your very specific logical errors.  If you take that as implying stupidity let the shoe fit.

As to the quotes above, I find believers (in general) to have those traits.  I was answering the OP as to why we (non-believers) [seem to be] close-minded.  My experience is as stated.  If the shoe fits, you have a pair.

What you perceive as bitterness is nothing of the sort.  It's simply stated in one word: weariness.

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RE: Why are so many non-Believers so narrow minded? - 7/1/2010 11:01:10 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Actually, you were answering each person individually, not responding to the OP.

Forgetting yet again? Im sure you can look back and see where you directly laid all those at the feet of the posters i indicated.

And you still refuse to admit that some can be caring, loving, religious people without all the formal religion trappings. You tend to have a bad habit of labling people based upon the word religion and not the words they are actually saying.

There are religious fanatics, just as there are many other types of fanatics. You tend to stick them all into the same box, then wonder why others get upset with you. If you are weary, its a weariness you have created for yourself.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to LanceHughes)
Profile   Post #: 167
RE: Why are so many non-Believers so narrow minded? - 7/1/2010 11:03:20 PM   
LanceHughes


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
<snipped>
And i did mean back UNDER your bed. That is where my little boy hid when he feared the monsters in the closet.
<snipped>

I have never "feared the monsters in the closet."  I am very, very sorry to hear that your "little boy" was not reassured that his fears were groundless.  I would hope that his mother (I'll guess that was you) would help him overcome those fears.
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
<snipped>
You seem to have many of those fears.

I have absolutely no idea of what "fears" you mean.  Please articulate.  Thanks, Lance



_____________________________

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RE: Why are so many non-Believers so narrow minded? - 7/1/2010 11:07:43 PM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LanceHughes

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
<snipped>
And i did mean back UNDER your bed. That is where my little boy hid when he feared the monsters in the closet.
<snipped>

I have never "feared the monsters in the closet."  I am very, very sorry to hear that your "little boy" was not reassured that his fears were groundless.  I would hope that his mother (I'll guess that was you) would help him overcome those fears.
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
<snipped>
You seem to have many of those fears.

I have absolutely no idea of what "fears" you mean.  Please articulate.  Thanks, Lance




If i state he was my son, then it would fall to reason that i was his mother. And you speak of my reading comprehension problems.

You seem to have fears of persecution. Fears that people are "out to get you", you being the atheist within you. As far as this religious person, i could care less what you want or wish as far as my personal belief goes. I would think you would say the same, yet you seem to indicate what i do in my life affects you directly, with full impact, making your life complicated and "weary". I would definitely consider these things "fears".

As far as my sons fears, they were because he loved reading goosebumps. lol

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to LanceHughes)
Profile   Post #: 169
RE: Why are so many non-Believers so narrow minded? - 7/1/2010 11:10:52 PM   
LanceHughes


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LanceHughes

quote:

ORIGINAL: seekingOwnertoo

Lance, now I think we are getting towards the answer to the OP.

I do not want to put words into your mouth, but from your prior posts, I might think …

All religion belief is composed of those things you are intolerant of.

And if this is the case, then I am thinking … the OP has an answer.

It is because non believers believe that belief is: ignorant, illogical, condescending, inconsistent and dishonest.

Is this what you are saying?



Thank you for helping me realize what I have been trying to articulate for almost 40 years. 

Let's see if I can re-cast your suggested answer to the OP as a direct answer and in my own words.  After re-read, you are very close and you got me pointed in the right direction.  At the very least, I must remove all those "beliefs." LOL!

ORIGINAL: Marini
Why are so many non-Believers/agnostics/and or whatever you want to call yourselves so narrow minded?
 
I appear to you to be narrow-minded because after almost 40 years of dealing with believers (whether religious, spiritual or whatever) I find that (in general) they are ignorant of the scientific method and its benefits and results, they are illogical in discussions of belief vs. non-belief, they are condenscending toward non-believers, they are inconsistent in their belief systems, and they are dishonest in their presentations thereof.
  
seekingOwnertoo:
Yep.  That's why I appear to be close-minded.  And after hearing the same ignorant, same illogical, same condensending, same inconsistent, and same dishonest arguments, explanations, fallacies and just plain nonsense for almost 40 years, I get a little snappish (if you know what I mean.) 
 
And now, with the help of: seekingOwnertoo, we bring you:
 
[/thread]


Typical of the sort of "argument" made by those who don't read very well (or I'll give you very carefully.)

Yes, I am speaking to seekingOwnertoo; but I'm thanking him for helping me formulate an anwer to the OP.  I then DIRECTLY quote the OP and IMMEDIATELY give my answer to the OP.  How you can twist this into calling seekingOwnertoo any name is beyond me.  I am totally "done" with your nonsense.

Good night.  And I wish the most pleasant of dreams for your "little boy" no matter what his current age is.

_____________________________

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"Advice is what we ask for when we already know the answer, but wish we didn't." Erica Jong

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RE: Why are so many non-Believers so narrow minded? - 7/1/2010 11:16:14 PM   
LanceHughes


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl


quote:

ORIGINAL: LanceHughes

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
<snipped>
And i did mean back UNDER your bed. That is where my little boy hid when he feared the monsters in the closet.
<snipped>

I have never "feared the monsters in the closet."  I am very, very sorry to hear that your "little boy" was not reassured that his fears were groundless.  I would hope that his mother (I'll guess that was you) would help him overcome those fears.
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
<snipped>
You seem to have many of those fears.

I have absolutely no idea of what "fears" you mean.  Please articulate.  Thanks, Lance




If i state he was my son, then it would fall to reason that i was his mother. And you speak of my reading comprehension problems.

You seem to have fears of persecution. Fears that people are "out to get you", you being the atheist within you. As far as this religious person, i could care less what you want or wish as far as my personal belief goes. I would think you would say the same, yet you seem to indicate what i do in my life affects you directly, with full impact, making your life complicated and "weary". I would definitely consider these things "fears".

As far as my sons fears, they were because he loved reading goosebumps. lol


You NEVER said "son."  You used the phrase "little boy."  And I made no assumption about what you meant by that phrase.  You don't or can't even read what you wrote.


_____________________________

"Train 'em the right way - my way." Lance Hughes
"Advice is what we ask for when we already know the answer, but wish we didn't." Erica Jong

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RE: Why are so many non-Believers so narrow minded? - 7/1/2010 11:16:45 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		I bet you are done, because you are wrong. Why didnt you repost the part about Marini? And i know you dont see what you did post as snide and condescending towards believers of any faith, but it is what you did. And when you do such again, i will speak out again. Enough is enough.

Do enjoy your evening, Lance. My son sleeps quite well at the ripe age of 24.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to LanceHughes)
Profile   Post #: 172
RE: Why are so many non-Believers so narrow minded? - 7/1/2010 11:18:35 PM   
tazzygirl


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Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LanceHughes

You NEVER said "son."  You used the phrase "little boy."  And I made no assumption about what you meant by that phrase.  You don't or can't even read what you wrote.



quote:

And i did mean back UNDER your bed. That is where my little boy hid when he feared the monsters in the closet.
(emphasis mine)

My son is my little boy. And i did use those exact words. My little boy. Again with the reading comprehension.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to LanceHughes)
Profile   Post #: 173
RE: Why are so many non-Believers so narrow minded? - 7/1/2010 11:34:17 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LanceHughes

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyCimarron

quote:

ORIGINAL: LanceHughes

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyCimarron

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brain

It’s very simple; it is just that there is nothing out there. You say there is a God, fine, prove it, I want evidence! I have never been happier and more at peace since becoming an atheist - now this crazy world makes sense and praying is a waste of time. There really is a God delusion it seems.
Bill



Bill if you were truly happy, you would not give a shit what other people believe. The fact that you think you need to "convert" believers to athieism makes you just as religious as you think believers are. Maybe moreso.


LC:  He isn't trying to "convert" anyone.  In religious terms, he is bearing witness to the happiness and peace he finds in atheism.

The strongest "conversion" attempt I see there is "Try it. You'll like it."  Maybe not even that strong... maybe his "message" is "Try it. You might like it."

Maybe it is, but if someone doesn't want to try it, they should be left alone; not brow beat or ridiculed for it. HE IS NOT BROW-BEATING, HE IS NOT RIDICULING.  READ! READ! READ!  Read what is written - not the words you want to. I just don't think anyone should try to convince someone else give us their way of life if its not hurting anyone else and they are happy with it.

BUT!  Your "way of life" does hurt me.  Every day.  See my just previous post (if I can type fast enough. LOL!) I'll put just one example here.  Belief in a higher power by a majority causes governments to make moral - not ethical laws.

And that reminds me..... just what are you all so very afraid of... why do you HAVE to have a creator... why are you searching for a reason to be here?  Behave ethically, not morally..... I do, and like Bill above, I am at peace and happy.  That is until I come across people that are wasting their lives bowing to some concept derived from sun-baked, dehydrated, half-starved desert dwellers with no concept of much of anything except slavery and war.

Actually I am not afraid of anything and I really don't HAVE to have a creator. Having a higher power is like having a partner in life...NOPE. Not at all. A partner comminicates. Dem der higher power guys don't. And if you think they are talking to you.... why, we have professionals that can help you with those voices in your head.
 
you don't HAVE to have one, but if you WANT one, that's an ok choice too. Sorry, I see no good in "having" one, whatever the f**k that means.
 
And not everyone will agree with or understand that choice. I'd like to understand that choice, I really would.  Please tell me why you made the choice to believe in a higher power?
 
You are happy and I am happy. Ah, so you are happy being mentally ill? Again, we have professionals for that sort of "happiness."
 
In the end isn't that all that really matters? So neither of us has to change anything if what we are doing now works for us. Thank God (or thank nothing if that offends you) that ..... I do not "thank nothing" I am glad the Founding Fathers designed a government where .... we live in a day and an age and a place where we can all choose to believe or not believe and we are free from anyone legally forcing beliefs (on [sic] non-beliefs) upon us.

By your suggested, hypothetical "thank nothing" you reveal your lack of knowledge of the most basic positon of an Atheist. 
 
It's the WASTE, stupid!
Waste?  Maybe.....but its my life. If I want to waste it is my choice. Each individual is free to make that choice for themselves as well. Nope. You can't waste your life.  There's laws against that.  Most laws are to protect you from yourself. LOL!  Drunk-driving springs to mind.  Seriously what I meant was the waste in terms of human advancement.  Don't take it personally, y'know.  I meant things like the waste of war and other things above.  
 
And I think its a very beautiful thing when people can accept that others do not have to think the same way they do  Well, again, the definition of reality is an agreement by the vast majority. I read you as indicating that peole who believe in apparitions, other-wordly creatures and miracles -OR- whatever it is that your higher power does is okaybecause it is not mentally healthy. and it doesn't have to cause strife or anger or some kind of fight about it. You are happy and I am very happy for you  But hey, that's just stupid me. LOL
 
Much Love  and an equal dose of condensending language to you!
Lady C.





And lets not forget this nice, peaceful, caring post made by you, Lance.

And while im going back through previous posts.

quote:

I care for my fellow man. I don't want them to waste their lives. I don't want them wasting their money on nonsense. I want then to live life fully, without fear. "No Gods. No fear." is my bumper sticker. I want the terror surrounding death to be dissapated. I do not want to open the newspaper and see the horoscopes. I do not want to have to go shopping in December and be told, "Celebrate the Solictice." Guess what? There's nothing to celebrate. I want my government to make ethical laws - not moral ones. I want the Ten Commandment monument removed from the State House grounds - we local Atheists sued to no effect. I want the Creche removed from the City & County Building steps. We local Atheists sued to no effect. I want the school boards to stop being bombarded by Intelligent Design advocates.

Those are the things that I want for my fellow man. THAT is why I care......


I consistently see atheists state what they want, what they demand, how they think things should be run. They also claim that religions tend to have blind sheep following the leaders.

IF we gave in to your demands for what YOU want, how is that different than us giving in, in your eyes, to what a church wants?

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to LanceHughes)
Profile   Post #: 174
RE: Why are so many non-Believers so narrow minded? - 7/1/2010 11:38:24 PM   
LanceHughes


Posts: 4737
Joined: 2/12/2004
Status: offline 		I want separation of  Church and State.  We'll go from there, okay?  Get those religious symbols off the State and City PUBLIC places.

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Profile   Post #: 175
RE: Why are so many non-Believers so narrow minded? - 7/1/2010 11:43:17 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		I got no problem with that. None at all. You do realize the Senate has a Chaplain, yes?

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to LanceHughes)
Profile   Post #: 176
RE: Why are so many non-Believers so narrow minded? - 7/1/2010 11:43:21 PM   
LanceHughes


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl


quote:

ORIGINAL: LanceHughes

You NEVER said "son."  You used the phrase "little boy."  And I made no assumption about what you meant by that phrase.  You don't or can't even read what you wrote.



quote:

And i did mean back UNDER your bed. That is where my little boy hid when he feared the monsters in the closet.
(emphasis mine)

My son is my little boy. And i did use those exact words. My little boy. Again with the reading comprehension.


Yes, you did use those words.  I said you did not use the word "son."

"my little boy" could mean many other things than "son."  We'll start with an adopted male child.  How about a nephew - not adopted, but you have custody due to either death of his parent's or an ugly situation.... or many other circumstances.  "my little boy" means - to me - a young male child.  If he's your son, say so..... don't leave the reader guessing what you mean.

_____________________________

"Train 'em the right way - my way." Lance Hughes
"Advice is what we ask for when we already know the answer, but wish we didn't." Erica Jong

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RE: Why are so many non-Believers so narrow minded? - 7/1/2010 11:46:31 PM   
LanceHughes


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

I got no problem with that. None at all. You do realize the Senate has a Chaplain, yes?

You bet I do.  Do you want me to list the hundreds of separation "violations"?  How 'bout coinage?  The pledge of Alligance?

I'm WEARY of making these lists,  WEARY of asking for what is correct and logical.  WEARY, weary, weary...... get it?

ETA: National Day of Prayer.  National holiday for Christmas.....

< Message edited by LanceHughes -- 7/1/2010 11:48:25 PM >

_____________________________

"Train 'em the right way - my way." Lance Hughes
"Advice is what we ask for when we already know the answer, but wish we didn't." Erica Jong

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RE: Why are so many non-Believers so narrow minded? - 7/2/2010 12:06:24 AM   
Rule


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LanceHughes
WEARY, weary, weary...... get it?

So drop it. Go do something fun instead of something wearying.

(in reply to LanceHughes)
Profile   Post #: 179
RE: Why are so many non-Believers so narrow minded? - 7/2/2010 12:26:33 AM   
LanceHughes


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule
quote:

ORIGINAL: LanceHughes
WEARY, weary, weary...... get it?

So drop it. Go do something fun instead of something wearying.

As in my "finalized" answer to the OP, I often find the religious, spiritual, whatever to be condensending.  Thanks for another prime example.

< Message edited by LanceHughes -- 7/2/2010 12:35:26 AM >

_____________________________

"Train 'em the right way - my way." Lance Hughes
"Advice is what we ask for when we already know the answer, but wish we didn't." Erica Jong

10 fluffy points
50 nz points

Member: VAA's posse

(in reply to Rule)
Profile   Post #: 180
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