RE: Benefit scroungers ? (Full Version)

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Aneirin -> RE: Benefit scroungers ? (6/30/2010 9:28:34 AM)

As many who have already said elsewhere, what is the point of working in a low paid job when the benefits are only a few pounds less.

Why work, when it does not get one anywhere except debt due to the high cost of living.

Many willing workers who for the sake of pride are working to keep themselves off the benefits are now seeing pride give way to reason. It is not that the benefits paid out are good, it is that low pay means exactly that, low pay and with that very close to the legal minimum wage which employers seem to exploit.

Existing solely on minimum wage  is not a living, and those that believe it is, try living on it.




Lucylastic -> RE: Benefit scroungers ? (6/30/2010 9:32:09 AM)

I dont believe anyone can be so blind to believe that everyone has a basic set of skills and can read let alone have a job or just walk into a training programme or class
must be nice to have things so simple mapped out for you







monochromaniac -> RE: Benefit scroungers ? (6/30/2010 9:32:57 AM)

I agree with Aneirin. Yes, pride means that a lot of people here wouldn't stop working and prefer to survive on benefits - hell, I would if my mum didn't threaten to kick me out if I decided to leave my crappy job and claim Jobseeker's Allowance instead, I'd have twice as much money - but you're still paying taxes either way, so why complain about others claiming benefits? Morally, to you it's wrong, but you're not any better or worse off because of somebody else being on the dole.




RCdc -> RE: Benefit scroungers ? (6/30/2010 9:38:18 AM)

You are asking two different questions.

quote:

Perhaps it is those who reap benefit payments actually see the futility in a slave labour work market.


Sure, poorly paid jobs exist and it sucks.  But you are still working.  Fine, suck at your McDs job if you want.  Do the bare minimum and sod your own pride.  But it's still work.  You don't 'work' on benefits.  You get to sit at home.  How many benefits people volunteer whilst on benefit?  How many actively look for work?  Maybe you and kevin are exceptions, but many people on benefit do not do these things.

You know, that wouldn't be such a bad idea.  People claiming benefit doing some sort of volunteer work whilst actively looking for work.

quote:

Could it be under the applied term lazy that those on welfare have a different thought to how life should be lived, and if the situation arose they would be rather working than scrounging ?

If you want to live off the state whilst living life differently to the current thought of how life (ie - be a 'free spirit, create art, live eco, or any other alternative lifestyle) should be lived - THAT sucks.

the.dark.




lobodomslavery -> RE: Benefit scroungers ? (6/30/2010 9:42:17 AM)

my conscience is clear. i worked for seven months unpaid and would happily work the following two months unpaid of the work experience unpaid . What was my reward? Laid off. Thanks employer. You got me for nothing , i got business for You,  You didnt pay me, and now you lay me off. Gratitude . NOT. Will i do it again? You must be joking. i d rather claim benefit than be treated like shit
kevin




xxblushesxx -> RE: Benefit scroungers ? (6/30/2010 9:53:11 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: lobodomslavery

my conscience is clear. i worked for seven months unpaid and would happily work the following two months unpaid of the work experience unpaid . What was my reward? Laid off. Thanks employer. You got me for nothing , i got business for You,  You didnt pay me, and now you lay me off. Gratitude . NOT. Will i do it again? You must be joking. i d rather claim benefit than be treated like shit
kevin



Kevin,

Everyone here told you not to do it. We told you what would happen. You were willfully ignorant and chose to ignore the wise counsel (and mine!) you were given.
I am sorry that happened to you; I guess what you got out of that was an unintended education.




lobodomslavery -> RE: Benefit scroungers ? (6/30/2010 9:58:17 AM)

i was already two months in when i told you about it. You were right but i dont regret it not for one second. It will be good for my cv when the upturn comes round , employers will see i didnt just sit on my ass when i couldnt get paid, i worked even when i wasnt paid. that will put me one up on those who sat on their asses. However i wont do it again, no been there done that worn the t shirt and thats it. it was an experience but i have the experience now and dont need to do it again
kevin




juliaoceania -> RE: Benefit scroungers ? (6/30/2010 10:04:47 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: lobodomslavery

Being employed is an ENTITLEMENT not a privilege. You have a right to employment a fair wage and fair treatment. I will certainly not work for anyone who does not treat me fairly. I am not going to lower myself to do Mc Donalds type work. I did not do a college degree to degrade myself like that
kevin



Dude, I work for my ex-dominant (some of you may remember him) cleaning his house, doing laundry, etc, to make my ends meet. I am going to paint my brother's house to make my ends meet. I am not too proud to do any sort of work to feed and house myself, and I have two degrees, working on a third....

I am soooo thankful that there are people who care about me enough to let me work for them to make a few bucks to get through my program.... it is not beneath me.




xxblushesxx -> RE: Benefit scroungers ? (6/30/2010 10:10:18 AM)

If you wear that shirt when you clean his house he should pay you extra!!  [8D]




Aneirin -> RE: Benefit scroungers ? (6/30/2010 10:14:27 AM)

My pride was such that even in twenty years of continuous employment I only ever took nine days sick in those twenty years and although the pay was lousy, I had my pride. The trouble was as a mechanic, mechnical trades were receiving lower and lower pay awards, it was becoming seen as low skilled or even unskilled to be able to repair and keep everything running.

At that time I also eschewed benefits, any form of benefits despite my low pay, I managed with what I had, not the credit everyone seems to value and I was married for half of those ten years with  feckless teenagers to support, they annoyed me with their everyone owes them a living mentality, but I kept them, as I was the surrogate father, a father without the benefits of fatherhood.

In time high stress and depression set in, I suffered an attempt on my life, the marriage broke up, with me having a nervous breakdown. I subsequently lost my job, my home and my stuff, I relocated to anothet part of the country and tried to start again. I managed two years of continuous employment, doing the same stuff, which I believed was the only thing I could do, failure to view outside the box lead to more depression to a situation known as black depression, the danger zone. I was also living alone and due to the lousy pay, this time slipping into deep debt. I got made redundant and yet more depression and onto the benefits I went which I saw as recovery time, a time to sit idle and think what to do next, as my home was secured by benefit payments.

In time I decided to avoid the sameness of the same low paid job and employers squeezing the life out of me for peanut pay, I would retrain and off to university I went in the pursuance of a degree in higher education. That education came hard, I had forgotten my past problems with acasemic study, but at least the college discovered something very useful to me, a reason for a lot of my problems through life, I had what was called a learning difficulty.

Now via the college I am getting the correct support, I am now learning to understand why I fail, what are my patterns and more importantly, do something about them, I have some cbt coming up to reprogramme my reactive behaviour.

As I am at college I am on benefits, and of that training to better myself and offer something to society part time, benefits is paying for that, the public purse, but with it comes a desire where before there was none, a desire to create my own business exploiting a  gap  I have seen in a society where mechanical and manual skills are seen as defunct, for manual skills are still needed and in the capacity in which I intend to be working, a good living can be made.

I do not seek wealth,all I seek is my own employment with a view to teach others my trade, as I believe information is free, everyone is entitled to it and it should be available to all that need it. College has also identified that I am also a very good and natural teacher, their suggestion is to pursue a teaching qualificaton post degree, as it would be a waste to let that  natural talent go.

Benefits is enabling me, it is strenghtening me and I will repay what I have taken, whence I complete my studies and find myself in the position to go for it. Of course a new business is of a benefit to many, the subsiduary suppliers who also need trade, benefit, as does the public purse in taxes and quite possibly employment for others. I will make amends for my scrounging status and of my status, there are a lot like me, not all are the stereotypical thing the media and government portray us as.

Incidently, the co prime minister Clegg, his party states in it's policy that anyone not in employment should be retraining for a better future, I am in that position, retraining but I cannot do it on fresh air.




xxblushesxx -> RE: Benefit scroungers ? (6/30/2010 10:14:53 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: lobodomslavery

i was already two months in when i told you about it. You were right but i dont regret it not for one second.


It sounded like it in your other post...




juliaoceania -> RE: Benefit scroungers ? (6/30/2010 10:15:01 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

As many who have already said elsewhere, what is the point of working in a low paid job when the benefits are only a few pounds less.

Why work, when it does not get one anywhere except debt due to the high cost of living.

Many willing workers who for the sake of pride are working to keep themselves off the benefits are now seeing pride give way to reason. It is not that the benefits paid out are good, it is that low pay means exactly that, low pay and with that very close to the legal minimum wage which employers seem to exploit.

Existing solely on minimum wage  is not a living, and those that believe it is, try living on it.



I created my own job after I received my BA degree. I started my own business on a shoe string, and was in the black within a year. The reason I stopped doing it was because I started taking care of an ill family member, and my business was extremely consuming... I made less than minimum wage when you pencil the time I put into it, but I enjoyed working for me...

With the economy the way it is my business would likely have failed had I not quit doing it on my own. There is no work that is beneath me. There is plenty of work I feel physically unable to do, but if I could do it to pay my way I would....


What we are talking about maybe two separate things... do we have to work for large companies that exploit unskilled/low skilled labor? How do we make companies accountable for the people they employ? Do economies exist to serve the majority people, or do they exist to benefit the few? How do we deal with people that do not fit into the capitalist model? Because not everyone will be able to fit into it....

Choosing to live off the system as a social statement against capitalism isn't very effective. In fact people who do that are making a statement that social programs promote abuse by people who are unmotivated. Communes, alternative communities, that come up with alternative ways of subsistence would be much more productive, and there are some models of how to do this effectively.

Making the statement that work is somehow beneath people is false, there is always some sort of valuable work to be done in this world... go pick up trash at the park, volunteer at a school or an old folks home.... but just sitting around on the dole thinking this is making a political statement about this system.... not so much




juliaoceania -> RE: Benefit scroungers ? (6/30/2010 10:18:37 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: xxblushesxx

If you wear that shirt when you clean his house he should pay you extra!!  [8D]



I usually change into his clothes.... I don't want to ruin mine with bleach and stuf[:D]




lobodomslavery -> RE: Benefit scroungers ? (6/30/2010 11:29:36 AM)

im trying to find suitable employment , paid employment , there is none out there, i continue to try but so far i have got nothing but rejections. You have paid employment bully for you, im not working for nothing for anyone again
kevin




xxblushesxx -> RE: Benefit scroungers ? (6/30/2010 11:36:51 AM)

There are always people who need their dogs walked, their children tended to, and their lawns mowed. Pet sitting can be very profitable, especially if you're house sitting as well.




sirsholly -> RE: Benefit scroungers ? (6/30/2010 11:52:52 AM)

quote:

You have to understand of course a lifestyle on benefits is a severely limited lifestyle, not the skive many think it is,
Damn shame.

But you know what? Holding down two jobs to make ends meet is a wee bit limiting as well.




Aneirin -> RE: Benefit scroungers ? (6/30/2010 12:09:32 PM)

That all depends upon what one calls making ends meet, do you live on the poverty line and can manage, or are you expecting more; run a vehicle, go on holiday or have the buying power to buy in the gadgets that no one seems to be able to live without these days.

I have the ability to go a couple of days without food so that helps and when I do eat, I eat little, mostly bread, rice, pasta and fish when I catch it. I can of course live like this, but my cat needs feeding.




sirsholly -> RE: Benefit scroungers ? (6/30/2010 12:20:18 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: lobodomslavery

Being employed is an ENTITLEMENT not a privilege. You have a right to employment a fair wage and fair treatment. I will certainly not work for anyone who does not treat me fairly. I am not going to lower myself to do Mc Donalds type work. I did not do a college degree to degrade myself like that
kevin

why is working at McDonalds degrading, Kevin? Because you are too good for that?
What is about you that makes you superior to honest work for honest pay? A degree? Guess what...many of us have them and do not share your attitude that we are above certain types of work. That degree entitles you to nothing.

quote:

ORIGINAL: lobodomslavery

Being employed is an ENTITLEMENT not a privilege. You have a right to employment a fair wage and fair treatment.

quote:

ORIGINAL: lobodomslavery

The wider issue is that the State does have a responsibility to provide employment.

Tell ya what, Kevin...go to your government official and demand that you be hired because you are ENTITLED, damnit.
They will send your ass to an unemployment office, who will give you a list of businesses who are hiring.
My guess is the list will end up in the trash because you are too good for those places too
quote:

ORIGINAL: lobodomslavery

There is also what is called suitable work. Mc Donalds is not a job commensurate with my skills

more like your ego.





sirsholly -> RE: Benefit scroungers ? (6/30/2010 12:22:34 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

That all depends upon what one calls making ends meet, do you live on the poverty line and can manage, or are you expecting more; run a vehicle, go on holiday or have the buying power to buy in the gadgets that no one seems to be able to live without these days.

.

Vacations and gadgets are luxuries you feel you are entitled to?




Aneirin -> RE: Benefit scroungers ? (6/30/2010 12:30:09 PM)

Nope, I don't vacation and I have no interest in gadgets, for I long ago realised gadgets are only things that can be lived without, as if life has been sustainable up to the idea of the gadget, then one can live without them.

What I do do though, is rescue crap from dumps and repair it, often giving it away, but at least I am using past skills to benefit others. I also trade with others, some things I can do in exchange for good will. Other things include fish hunting and foraging.




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