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ORIGINAL: lally2

this is a really interesting thread for me right now because im in the process of totally seeing things in a different way on this topic.

i dont get off on pain ever, no fully bunnies or subspace until its all over.  for me its all about submitting to my Dom and the pain he doles out, i need the outlet but i dont enjoy it as a sensation, its a struggle but i need that struggle.

it used to be that i hooked up with sadists because my level of massochism seemed to fit in well with their sadistic enjoyment, they enjoyed putting me through the struggle, i needed the struggle, everyones happy.

recently though ive met a man who isnt a sadist and what he gives in pain is all about giving me the outlet to struggle and cry.  he gets the charge out of me surrendering myself to him.

i used to think that a non-sadist couldnt possibly want to hurt a struggling, boohooing sub and that in a way he is really serving her needs not his.

apparently not so.  his needs are tied into the surrender of me to Him and controlling the whole thing all the way to the end until i cry because he knows, no matter how much i struggle thats what has to happen.  so im still there for the duration and i am still serving his needs, cept his needs arent all about sadism.

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ORIGINAL: KnightofMists
Not all food is created equal... so... why do eat .. because we are hungry. But our hunger can be satisfied iwith many different foods. But... it's not so much that something else is being sought as that there are multiple reasons why we eat to feed that hunger.. and hunger is just one of them. Today... I had Steak and Eggs for supper and yesterday it was a Burrito... In fact, I find that I eat alot of different things over the course of week with a few similiar things. I Love the contrasts of all those foods. My SM is alot like my foods. I am satisfying a hunger and I enjoy the contrasts... they all taste alittle different and still satisfy the hunger that is at the core.

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Cool, thanks for your responses. Goodnight if you're headed for bed.

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ORIGINAL: LadyPact

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ORIGINAL: KnightofMists
Not all food is created equal... so... why do eat .. because we are hungry. But our hunger can be satisfied iwith many different foods. But... it's not so much that something else is being sought as that there are multiple reasons why we eat to feed that hunger.. and hunger is just one of them. Today... I had Steak and Eggs for supper and yesterday it was a Burrito... In fact, I find that I eat alot of different things over the course of week with a few similiar things. I Love the contrasts of all those foods. My SM is alot like my foods. I am satisfying a hunger and I enjoy the contrasts... they all taste alittle different and still satisfy the hunger that is at the core.

Geez, I'm glad somebody finally got around to saying this.  I never understand why folks talk about wiitwd like they are ordering a main course at a restaurant.  It's much more like a buffet for Me.  One day or when I'm in a particular mood I'll want one thing.  The next time, I'll pick something entirely different.  Sure, you might usually want the chicken, but that doesn't mean that the beef is equally good when that's what you're in the mood for.

Oh, for the record, yes, I enjoy inflicting real pain.  I like hurting people who like it and I like hurting people who don't.  I enjoy finding those things that even those who like pain absolutely hate and I like using it to turn them into a quivering mess.  I don't plan scenes in advance so it's really going to boil down to what I feel I want at the time.  The next time I play, I will probably want something different. 

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If we look at the definitions of Sadism and Masochism in their strictest, and most basic sense, a Sadist is someone who enjoys inflicting pain, a masochist is someone who enjoys receiving that pain.
But, does that really apply to what we do? Do you actually enjoy inflicting/receiving pain?

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ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

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If we look at the definitions of Sadism and Masochism in their strictest, and most basic sense, a Sadist is someone who enjoys inflicting pain, a masochist is someone who enjoys receiving that pain.
But, does that really apply to what we do? Do you actually enjoy inflicting/receiving pain?

You can't avoid attempts to have one strict definition of words, sadism and masochism are two a group of people have borrowed from Freud and the early days of psychology. Keep in mind the universe of sadism and masochism is expanding to include more and more references daily. Someday, everyone may be able to feel comfortable and proud of wearing or applying either label in any social setting. I'm sure that as we speak drug companies are developing a pill to either give you more, or less, desire for both.

In our relationship, masochism and sadism don't apply in the strictest definition to the compatible and complimentary sensations, or the emotional, and mental intercourse beth and I share; but they are, like Master/slave, short cut references for people, including us, before we got to know each other better. Were I a 'true sadist' I'd avoid providing beth, a 'true masochist' the painful sensations and emotional/mental angst she desires. Obviously neither of us are 'true' anything. I avoid, and don't go out of my way to hurt people; although admittedly I do tend to giggle at other people's pratfalls and still enjoy watching the Three Stooges for sadistic humiliation tips. beth avoids pain as much as possible. Were she a 'true masochist' she'd be at Six Flags every day in line for the biggest roller coaster instead of panicking at the thought of driving by one.

So what about the reference to sadism and masochism applies to the 'lifestyle' reference? I can't, no one can, answer that for each occurrence. I like to use a graph as a reference; with masochism on sadism variables within a linear equation. The sadistic line ranging from non-existent, or on the negative side avoidance of inflicting pain, to psychopathic sadistic abuser, the masochist going from not liking or even avoiding painful stimulus and/or humiliation to being self destructive. Somewhere between the positive quadrant of the graph are people on CM. If the desire lines intersect the fundamental aspects of a relationship intersect and the people involved start from that point of compatibility and go on from there.

Not avoiding your question for me the answer is I enjoy the 'intercourse'. The pain, humiliation, emotional interaction of a 'scene' is, for me, a huge turn on. It is impossible for me to disconnect the desire I have for dominating a partner with my sexuality. After over seven years of beth as my exclusive partner, 'casual' play has become a lost desire. I don't want to experience the one point where our desires meet and have to stop because once the sadistic/masochistic point of compatibility is passed, our sexual compatibility points are far apart. Works the other way for me too; casual sex, even at the high end of compatibility is not desirable without the S&M aspect of compatibility being just as high.

For me, the dominance, the inflicting of discomfort, and pain; is sexual. It always was, but until I found beth, I had to disconnect those things with partners. Our graphed lines of desire intersected but never met at a terminal point, or did so in one dimension for a specific time or to placate a specific sensation/experience desire, and then moved on.

Personally I don't' see the application of sadism or masochism as a part of a person's identity any more, or less, dysfunctional as any other label reference for desires which require a compatible partner to experience. As any other term used, they are meaningless outside the context of the individual using them and how they apply within their relationship.

A universe functioning on the 'Chaos Theory', getting two points to merge and continue on merging to a singularity, requires an improbable set of circumstances.

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I'd recommend not worrying about the stereotypical negative, or positive, image of the words. Use the energy to get out and find a compatible partner.

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ORIGINAL:Mercnbeth

I'd recommend not worrying about the stereotypical negative, or positive, image of the words. Use the energy to get out and find a compatible partner.

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ORIGINAL: Ligeia72
Wasn't entirely sure if this was directed at me or meant in general, but simple answer - I don't, and I already have one. But thanks anyway for the sound advice, hopefully it proves useful to someone else reading along.

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ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

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ORIGINAL:Mercnbeth

I'd recommend not worrying about the stereotypical negative, or positive, image of the words. Use the energy to get out and find a compatible partner.

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ORIGINAL: Ligeia72
Wasn't entirely sure if this was directed at me or meant in general, but simple answer - I don't, and I already have one. But thanks anyway for the sound advice, hopefully it proves useful to someone else reading along.

It was a general comment, one I'd make regarding any label/title. Use them as short cuts - don't assume the person hearing them, or applying them to themselves and their situation, has the same definition in mind. Get to know them, not the label or title they use.

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ORIGINAL: Ligeia72
I'd be interested to see if there is a difference between the pain pathways/process of pain between 'injury/sickness' type pain and play type pain. If that makes sense?

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ORIGINAL: kyraofMists

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ORIGINAL: Ligeia72
I'd be interested to see if there is a difference between the pain pathways/process of pain between 'injury/sickness' type pain and play type pain. If that makes sense?

For me it is context and perception. My internal dialogue plays a big part in how I process the pain. On the other hand, even as a child I would play with bruises, scratches because I liked the sensation even if it hurt.

With the kind of pain I don't like, I enjoy it because of who is inflicting it. From the very first night we were together, pain was a part of our interaction. I learned to associate his love and desire for me through him causing me pain. It is something that is very much tied into my love for him.

For him, he likes causing pain. It doesn't have to be with someone he loves or even desires. With Alandra and I he tends to do even more because his knowledge and understanding of us lets him know how far he can go without causing harm.

Knight's Kyra

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ORIGINAL: Icarys

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Cool, thanks for your responses. Goodnight if you're headed for bed.

Where else would I have been headed?


I know when I start goofing the quote boxes up that bad..It's time lol

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ORIGINAL: KevinSWM

For me, pain is just another tool I can use to dom. I don't do it because I want to hurt them, I do it because I want to control them. I like the expressions, the squirming, the moans, but mostly the fact that I forced them to react in those ways. It's shameless immediate gratification.