RE: Aftercare (Full Version)

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SimplyMichael -> RE: Aftercare (7/5/2010 9:01:22 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: AQuietSimpleMan

quote:

ORIGINAL: zephyroftheNorth
Funny I don't drop at all, I feel energized and sparkly afterwards, no negative effects at all. I've never needed aftercare at all and I've engaged in some pretty heavy play.


See everyone..... they do exist.

Not everyone becomes Primordial Ooze which need a geneticist to reassemble.

QSM


Pretty much everyone in this thread has talked about these things vary.  I spoke of cuddling as something that can be helpful, Andalusite above spoke about how cuddling is the antithisis of aftercare for her.  Just as there are women who milk aftercare for all its worth, I am sure there are women who ignore their own needs for it.  Bottom line is if you want to keep a partner around you need to understand their needs and work with them, not give in, not coddle, but not ignore and mock either.




zephyroftheNorth -> RE: Aftercare (7/5/2010 9:05:50 AM)

quote:

Just as there are women who milk aftercare for all its worth, I am sure there are women who ignore their own needs for it.


Then there is the third group, those of us who genuinely don't need aftercare. We don't ignore our own need for it, it isn't necessary PERIOD



Andalusite -> RE: Aftercare (7/5/2010 9:09:28 AM)

Oh, goodness no! I like cuddling during aftercare, it just isn't enough to fix everything if I am genuinely upset (though it helps), and it's easy for it to extend subspace so that it's harder to drive home if I'm playing in a public place.[;)] Cuddling's good during aftercare, or at any other time! My current playpartner doesn't need a lot of cuddling or other aftercare other than wound care, but she enjoys it. Usually we snuggle up and talk about what her kids and husband are up to, how my grandma is doing, how work is going, and stuff like that. She enjoys doing service-oriented things during aftercare, like being the one to clean things up, bringing me food or water, kneeling, and such. I've played with a few other people who also didn't require a lot of aftercare, and were safe to drive right afterward, but they still liked cuddles whether or not it was during aftercare. I like snuggly peoples!



Plasticine -> RE: Aftercare (7/5/2010 9:13:44 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss

You know, I have access to academic research journals but would never go near this topic on the website. I like my job!

I did try to find something on google, and NOTHING. At least, nothing I could find. I can't imagine with all the kinky folks in uni that it hasn't been studied. In fact I know that there are people who write papers about this sort of thing but don't get them published. I wrote the paper comparing psychological therapy with prostitution. That went over well in my nice little Catholic University. mmmm hmmmm.


One might look in the journal DB's from an anonymous library computer.  In fact even I might... tomorrow or something.  All the terminals have full access and they'll never know who searched for what. Muahaha. [;)]



SimplyMichael -> RE: Aftercare (7/5/2010 9:19:24 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: zephyroftheNorth

quote:

Just as there are women who milk aftercare for all its worth, I am sure there are women who ignore their own needs for it.


Then there is the third group, those of us who genuinely don't need aftercare. We don't ignore our own need for it, it isn't necessary PERIOD


Speaks very slowly and softly so the point can sink in...the point is there is an entire range of who does and doesn't need it and how they deal with that need, from choosing the perfect partner to administer the perfect aftercare that they have perfectly elucidated, to nuts who either can't ask or can't shut up about aftercare and everything in between, on both sides, and god knows what else.



SimplyMichael -> RE: Aftercare (7/5/2010 9:21:34 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss

You know, I have access to academic research journals but would never go near this topic on the website. I like my job!

I did try to find something on google, and NOTHING. At least, nothing I could find. I can't imagine with all the kinky folks in uni that it hasn't been studied. In fact I know that there are people who write papers about this sort of thing but don't get them published. I wrote the paper comparing psychological therapy with prostitution. That went over well in my nice little Catholic University. mmmm hmmmm.


The research involved oral swabs for neurochemicals.  I can't recall if it was during or after bdsm play but it was very much a direct look into bdsm.  Hope that helps.



AQuietSimpleMan -> RE: Aftercare (7/5/2010 9:23:35 AM)

I thought you said you made it up.

Are you really gunna have him research something you made up?

I pale in comparison to your sadism.

<Chuckles>

QSM



zephyroftheNorth -> RE: Aftercare (7/5/2010 11:37:16 AM)

I believe so, QSM or at least I assume that's what he meant when he wrote this

quote:

I just made it up, you can feel all smug that you caught me in a lie if that makes you feel better.


then again only Michael can say for sure



angelikaJ -> RE: Aftercare (7/5/2010 11:53:21 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

quote:

ORIGINAL: zephyroftheNorth

quote:

Just as there are women who milk aftercare for all its worth, I am sure there are women who ignore their own needs for it.


Then there is the third group, those of us who genuinely don't need aftercare. We don't ignore our own need for it, it isn't necessary PERIOD


Speaks very slowly and softly so the point can sink in...the point is there is an entire range of who does and doesn't need it and how they deal with that need, from choosing the perfect partner to administer the perfect aftercare that they have perfectly elucidated, to nuts who either can't ask or can't shut up about aftercare and everything in between, on both sides, and god knows what else.



Was being patronizing a necessity (were you in need of a fix?) or is it just a default setting for you? [;)]

I actually managed to find my way to the "everything in between, on both sides and god knows what else" without the extra effort on your part, but thank you just the same.

SimplyMichael,

No offense was intended by that, but if I needed further clarification, I would have just asked and many people here are more than capable of doing the same.



zephyroftheNorth -> RE: Aftercare (7/5/2010 4:02:54 PM)

Sorry Angelika was that first part directed at me? I was just annoyed because if you go back a post Michael seemed to be saying that those of us who say we don't need aftercare are lying either to ourselves or our partners.



angelikaJ -> RE: Aftercare (7/5/2010 4:49:08 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: zephyroftheNorth

Sorry Angelika was that first part directed at me? I was just annoyed because if you go back a post Michael seemed to be saying that those of us who say we don't need aftercare are lying either to ourselves or our partners.


Not at all, I was referring to the post that followed yours in the quote.
It seemed to me that you were making your point clear.

The part that my muddled subbie brain interpreted as patronizing began with this:
"Speaks very slowly and softly so the point can sink in"...

Of course, I might be wrong.

edit spelling





zephyroftheNorth -> RE: Aftercare (7/5/2010 4:54:18 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: angelikaJ

quote:

ORIGINAL: zephyroftheNorth

Sorry Angelika was that first part directed at me? I was just annoyed because if you go back a post Michael seemed to be saying that those of us who say we don't need aftercare are lying either to ourselves or our partners.


Not at all, I was referring to the post that followed yours in the quote.
It seemed to me that you were making your point clear.

The part that my muddled subbie brain interpreted as patronizing began with this:
"Speaks very slowly and softly so the point can sink in"...

Of course, I might be wrong.

edit spelling





Thankies, sweetie smooches



CelticPrince -> RE: Aftercare (7/5/2010 4:55:40 PM)

quote:

Ok, been in Europe not thinking about D/s for a couple of months, but I'm back and this one is making me crazy:

How do people feel about aftercare? I do a lot of very intense psychological stuff with my Dom, and while during play I feel like the luckiest, most incredibly blissful person on the planet, when I don't get a good "it's ok, I care about you. Come back to yourself" session afterward, I wind up feeling god awful. My Dom agrees that we need to find aftercare that works for me, but so far I can never get him to do it, and in trying to I wind up feeling obnoxious and needy and whiny on top of my already pretty crappy feeling. He has also lightly suggested that over time he'd like to change my psyche so that I don't need it as much, and that perhaps I could "earn" or "lose" aftercare by being particularly good or bad. Those ideas leave me a bit taken aback.

Are there any Doms out there who do NOT like to do aftercare? Are there any subs who desperately need it but have had to stifle the need because their Dom wanted them to "get over it"? Everyone else - do you need aftercare? Do you loathe aftercare? Think it's silly? Love it?

Inquiring minds want to know.


juju,

After care and the degrees offered are really related to the degree of the activity. A good cock pounding in all of your pleasure points may not require any at all;however a good physical thrashing may require lots on the part of the "D".

Since you delve not into the degree and kinds it is really hard to comment.

CP



zephyroftheNorth -> RE: Aftercare (7/6/2010 1:32:26 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: angelikaJ


quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

quote:

ORIGINAL: zephyroftheNorth

quote:

Just as there are women who milk aftercare for all its worth, I am sure there are women who ignore their own needs for it.


Then there is the third group, those of us who genuinely don't need aftercare. We don't ignore our own need for it, it isn't necessary PERIOD


Speaks very slowly and softly so the point can sink in...the point is there is an entire range of who does and doesn't need it and how they deal with that need, from choosing the perfect partner to administer the perfect aftercare that they have perfectly elucidated, to nuts who either can't ask or can't shut up about aftercare and everything in between, on both sides, and god knows what else.



Was being patronizing a necessity (were you in need of a fix?) or is it just a default setting for you? [;)]

I actually managed to find my way to the "everything in between, on both sides and god knows what else" without the extra effort on your part, but thank you just the same.

SimplyMichael,

No offense was intended by that, but if I needed further clarification, I would have just asked and many people here are more than capable of doing the same.


I suspect it's pretty much his default setting when he needs to make himself feel better, especially when the person he's patronising to is one who caught him out in a lie, not once but twice.



SimplyMichael -> RE: Aftercare (7/6/2010 2:55:17 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: zephyroftheNorth

I suspect it's pretty much his default setting when he needs to make himself feel better, especially when the person he's patronising to is one who caught him out in a lie, not once but twice.


Sorry you rode to CM on the shortbus but that was sarcasm when I posted that. I don't have access to the database I found the study in and when someone got all pissy I blew them off with sarcasm. I have a reputation here as being an abrasive sarcastic, even cruel poster but lying isnt' exactly something I indulge in.

Hint, liars don't tend to just roll over and admit they are lying in full view of god and everybody. Some posters here have nothing better to do than wait in the wings like vultures desperate for a crack somewhere in their betters post to leap in and take a potshot. I didn't feel like indulging his idiocy so I simply told him I made it up. I didn't think anyone was dumb enough to think I was serious.



zephyroftheNorth -> RE: Aftercare (7/6/2010 3:32:41 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

quote:

ORIGINAL: zephyroftheNorth

I suspect it's pretty much his default setting when he needs to make himself feel better, especially when the person he's patronising to is one who caught him out in a lie, not once but twice.


Sorry you rode to CM on the shortbus but that was sarcasm when I posted that. I don't have access to the database I found the study in and when someone got all pissy I blew them off with sarcasm. I have a reputation here as being an abrasive sarcastic, even cruel poster but lying isnt' exactly something I indulge in.

Hint, liars don't tend to just roll over and admit they are lying in full view of god and everybody. Some posters here have nothing better to do than wait in the wings like vultures desperate for a crack somewhere in their betters post to leap in and take a potshot. I didn't feel like indulging his idiocy so I simply told him I made it up. I didn't think anyone was dumb enough to think I was serious.



their betters? Michael you are hardly my "better". I realise you do have a high opinion of yourself but wow! You wrote

quote:

I just made it up, you can feel all smug that you caught me in a lie if that makes you feel better.


I took it at face value and I'm fairly certain I'm not the only one. I would have thought that if you didn't have access to the database you would have said so, instead you chose "sarcasm" your choice to make but it leaves the possibility of others taking it the same way I did. That also leaves the possibility of being called out on it - again your choice.



alatheia -> RE: Aftercare (7/6/2010 10:30:16 PM)

Just a little side comment about subdrop & subspace and this is just a guess . It seems to involve both the endorphine rush induced by the fight or flight response with an acute stress response (dazed kind of state). A sympathetic response would explain all the hype (increased breath+heart rate, blood being redirected to the muscles,etc) and our body responding to the stress of a "scene" seems like a way of coping with it.. Once the threat passes the body reverts back to its normal state, the time needed to recover would then vary from person to person.

Anyway, it's nothing but a guess.. It does seem interesting though.



porcelaine -> RE: Aftercare (7/6/2010 11:07:44 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MarcEsadrian

I don't understand the issue with aftercare, if there really is one; it's a fairly natural and human thing to offer a slave/servant/bottom who has suffered so much for you a lap to cry upon, and it only serves to strengthen the bond. Knowing you haven't broken your favorite toy, and exploring his/her mental state is comforting, in turn. On the flip side, insisting on the unconditional provision of aftercare in any circumstance is unrealistic and somewhat subversive. There are times when it should not be offered or expected.


This is the crux of the debate many have with aftercare. Marc's remarks are balanced and well stated. I find some of the venom about aftercare falls along two lines. One side desires to eliminate all traces of supposedly non kink behavior in their relationships. That's countered by other parties that believe the submissive is entitled to its receipt. I'm at a loss why the negativity exists regarding activities that are dependent on the design and composition of the individual's involved. If he offers comfort I'll accept it. If it isn't forthcoming I don't complain. The omission of care doesn't suggest he's unfeeling. There are moments when a girl needs to bask in her condition without the creature comforts that might lessen its depth.

~porcelaine



zephyroftheNorth -> RE: Aftercare (7/7/2010 4:47:48 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: zephyroftheNorth


quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

quote:

ORIGINAL: zephyroftheNorth

I suspect it's pretty much his default setting when he needs to make himself feel better, especially when the person he's patronising to is one who caught him out in a lie, not once but twice.


Sorry you rode to CM on the shortbus but that was sarcasm when I posted that. I don't have access to the database I found the study in and when someone got all pissy I blew them off with sarcasm. I have a reputation here as being an abrasive sarcastic, even cruel poster but lying isnt' exactly something I indulge in.

Hint, liars don't tend to just roll over and admit they are lying in full view of god and everybody. Some posters here have nothing better to do than wait in the wings like vultures desperate for a crack somewhere in their betters post to leap in and take a potshot. I didn't feel like indulging his idiocy so I simply told him I made it up. I didn't think anyone was dumb enough to think I was serious.



their betters? Michael you are hardly my "better". I realise you do have a high opinion of yourself but wow! You wrote

quote:

I just made it up, you can feel all smug that you caught me in a lie if that makes you feel better.


I took it at face value and I'm fairly certain I'm not the only one. I would have thought that if you didn't have access to the database you would have said so, instead you chose "sarcasm" your choice to make but it leaves the possibility of others taking it the same way I did. That also leaves the possibility of being called out on it - again your choice.


Michael, that you chose to send me a PM instead of replying to this post here speaks volumes. That you also felt the need to insult my ex also says a lot about you....none of it good.



sirsholly -> RE: Aftercare (7/7/2010 4:53:37 AM)

quote:

Some posters here have nothing better to do than wait in the wings like vultures desperate for a crack somewhere in their betters post to leap in and take a potshot.
Just curious Michael...who's "better" do you consider yourself to be?



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