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RE: Factory Jobs Return, but Employers Find Skills Shor... - 7/4/2010 8:21:50 AM   
seekingOwnertoo


Posts: 1323
Joined: 8/1/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

I do think unemployment benefits should come with mandatory training programs.

Of course, then they'd have to be designed and paid for.....

And how to sort out honest persistent job searchers from those needing retraining?

But I think a lot more people than should sit around and hope for the best when they should be making hay.





As there has been some discussion about retraining programs, I thought some of you might enjoy this recent article from the Detroit Free Press, about a State retraining program for unemployed workers ....

Posted: June 30, 2010

Funding cuts to limit job retraining

State program will take a hit

BY KATHERINE YUNG
FREE PRESS BUSINESS WRITER


The funding crisis affecting Michigan's No Worker Left Behind program comes as new data show the retraining effort is working.

Of the 57,855 workers who have completed training, 59% have obtained new jobs, according to a report released Tuesday by the Michigan Department of Energy, Labor & Economic Growth.

"As a country, we should be putting more money into this," said Andy Levin, Michigan's chief workforce officer and DELEG's deputy director.

Thanks to the program, Michigan has become a leader in long-term workforce retraining, drawing praise from President Barack Obama.

But because of a decline in federal funding, state officials say the program's popularity -- 22 consecutive months of year-over-year enrollment growth -- can't be sustained.

Starting Thursday, No Worker Left Behind will only be able to accept a limited number of new applicants. In addition, the statewide wait list to get into the program -- which has 20,000 Michiganders on it -- will be eliminated.

The cutbacks won't affect people currently undergoing job training or those who were on the wait list as of Monday and have already been approved for training.

No Worker Left Behind pays for up to $5,000 a year in tuition for two years for laid-off residents studying to get a degree or certification in certain high-demand occupations such as nursing. More than 130,000 Michiganders have received training through the program since its launch in August 2007.

The initiative has relied heavily on money from the federal government because of Michigan's budget deficits. But in the past two years, the amount going to the state for workforce training has dropped by 39% or $72 million.

According to Levin, the federal government's total spending on workforce training has stayed flat despite increased demand for aid from all states. The situation means fewer dollars for Michigan even though it has more workers in need of retraining than many other states. Money from the stimulus program helped offset this shortfall, but those funds have run out.

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Factory Jobs Return, but Employers Find Skills Shor... - 7/4/2010 8:26:26 AM   
DarkSteven


Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline 		I've seen retraining programs but never seen any stats about how effective they were.  I remember once reading about some program to teach basic computer skills to laid off blue collar workers to make them more employable at the same time that I, with over ten years experience with word processors and spreadsheets, was part of an unemployed professionals network.

_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to seekingOwnertoo)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Factory Jobs Return, but Employers Find Skills Shor... - 7/4/2010 8:50:36 AM   
seekingOwnertoo


Posts: 1323
Joined: 8/1/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

I've seen retraining programs but never seen any stats about how effective they were.


You make a keen observation.

While that article says so far: 59% Of the 57,855 workers who have completed training.

The results are not immediate ... and it may take a couple years to really assess the success or failure of the one mentioned in the article.

After all, I would think there would be a correlation between the economy, and the number hired.

Yet there are soft benefits to society, and the individuals too.

Some may be: Keeps people active and moving toward a goal. Demonstrates desire to future employees. Possibly prevents riots and other civil disorder ... and I am just scratching the surface of speculation here ...

(in reply to DarkSteven)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Factory Jobs Return, but Employers Find Skills Shor... - 7/4/2010 9:02:57 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		That's a very good rate. That's six in ten that found jobs that couldn't before.

Compare that, for example, to college--only 42% of college students actually graduate (4 year degree).

And several of those (about half) will find jobs no better than they could have out of high school (because it's about transferable skills, not paper credentials).



< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 7/4/2010 9:04:22 AM >

(in reply to seekingOwnertoo)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Factory Jobs Return, but Employers Find Skills Shor... - 7/4/2010 9:25:26 AM   
seekingOwnertoo


Posts: 1323
Joined: 8/1/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

That's a very good rate. That's six in ten that found jobs that couldn't before.

edited ... because no need to repeat


Did not realize that ... so thanks for pointing it out.

Yet given that Google lists Michigan's Unemployment rate at 13.2 percent as of April, 2010

http://www.google.com/publicdata?ds=usunemployment&met=unemployment_rate&idim=state:ST260000&dl=en&hl=en&q=Michigan+Unemployment+Rate

I would think the number of retrained people, finding new jobs, has the potential to go up from where it currently is, as more jobs get created.

That said, does this suggest something about permanently unemployed manufacturing workers ... and their desire to be retrained?

And if so, do you see some credibility issues ... with the article the OP referenced, about lack of skilled workers?


Need to add ...finding new jobs






< Message edited by seekingOwnertoo -- 7/4/2010 9:41:57 AM >

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Factory Jobs Return, but Employers Find Skills Shor... - 7/4/2010 9:33:37 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		People are slow to change. After doing a well-paying job for years, understandably they don't just pop up bright-eyed the following morning and say, "OK! What's next?!"

Programs like this take time. Training is always good--if not immediately, it often comes in handy later, in unforeseen ways.

I have a friend with a good job that offers certification opportunities. He has worked through every one, and continues to do so as they add more. His boss loves it, as it increases his already considerable versatility and knowledge base, but also, if something were to happen to his job, he has multiple areas in which he's readily employable.

Everyone should think this way. Is my resume stronger than last year? If not, start addressing that, good job or not.

(in reply to seekingOwnertoo)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Factory Jobs Return, but Employers Find Skills Shor... - 7/4/2010 2:05:29 PM   
Fellow


Posts: 1486
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline 		I agree with the sentiment "Musicmysterey" expressed above: the managers who hire people are very often stupid. So, the whole discussion (not having potential workers to choose from) could be fake. The methodology managers use to hire people is almost laughable. At first they eliminate from the pool "the overqualified".  It could today account more than half of the applicants.  Then they eliminate people with insufficient education.  Then too old or too young, undesired sex and some other parameters they have set. The remaining small pool is screened now for experience and that is what the article is all about. Rather than selecting talent, the search is focused on very particular  parameters that will not even pay off.  The agencies which make money teaching resume writing have figured it out. So, the resumes are tweaked to met these parameters. One can often see ads like: office cleaner wanted, must have two years office cleaning experience. It is absolutely stupid; it takes one day for a person with a positive IQ to learn cleaning skills. The factory jobs are basically the same. The operations are basically standard and it would take very little time for a talented person to learn them.  

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Factory Jobs Return, but Employers Find Skills Shor... - 7/4/2010 10:33:55 PM   
thornhappy


Posts: 8596
Joined: 12/16/2006
Status: offline 		Doesn't that stat mean "graduate in 4 years"?  A lot of commuter students take more than 4 years because they're working at the same time.  Others can't get the classes they need to graduate in 4 years.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

That's a very good rate. That's six in ten that found jobs that couldn't before.

Compare that, for example, to college--only 42% of college students actually graduate (4 year degree).

And several of those (about half) will find jobs no better than they could have out of high school (because it's about transferable skills, not paper credentials).



(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Factory Jobs Return, but Employers Find Skills Shor... - 7/5/2010 6:01:54 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		No. Graduate at all.

(in reply to thornhappy)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Factory Jobs Return, but Employers Find Skills Shor... - 7/5/2010 7:28:06 AM   
DarkSteven


Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Fellow

I agree with the sentiment "Musicmysterey" expressed above: the managers who hire people are very often stupid. So, the whole discussion (not having potential workers to choose from) could be fake. The methodology managers use to hire people is almost laughable. At first they eliminate from the pool "the overqualified".  It could today account more than half of the applicants.  Then they eliminate people with insufficient education.  Then too old or too young, undesired sex and some other parameters they have set. The remaining small pool is screened now for experience and that is what the article is all about. Rather than selecting talent, the search is focused on very particular  parameters that will not even pay off.  The agencies which make money teaching resume writing have figured it out. So, the resumes are tweaked to met these parameters. One can often see ads like: office cleaner wanted, must have two years office cleaning experience. It is absolutely stupid; it takes one day for a person with a positive IQ to learn cleaning skills. The factory jobs are basically the same. The operations are basically standard and it would take very little time for a talented person to learn them.  


Much worse.  The initial screening is not done by managers at all, but by HR people who are completely unversed in the applicable field.  When I ran a resume service, one of my first tricks was a two-column cover letter that juxtaposed an ad's requirements with the applicant's applicable background to make it crystal clear that the applicant met stated criteria.  If that wasn't included, then HR would usually toss the resume.


_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to Fellow)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Factory Jobs Return, but Employers Find Skills Shor... - 7/5/2010 7:52:26 AM   
MissSepphora1


Posts: 669
Joined: 1/11/2008
Status: offline 		I had no training in accounting and had no college degree when my boss at the time saw the work I did on a project that involved nothing more than a spreadsheet and some basic research and I was promoted to National Accounts Manager for a multi-billion dollar company.
I watched several people who had college degrees struggle in the job, while everyone asked me how I kept my numbers so low. I just shrugged and said if I wanted an invoice paid I sent them the invoice. It was an unpopular idea in a company where everything was supposed to be paperless invoicing, but I got paid.
So to any employer who thinks a degree is the answer, you should look for people with basic reasoning skills. That isn't always a college graduate.

_____________________________

I'd rather die on my feet than live on my knees.

(in reply to DarkSteven)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Factory Jobs Return, but Employers Find Skills Shor... - 7/5/2010 10:29:54 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

quote:

ORIGINAL: Fellow

I agree with the sentiment "Musicmysterey" expressed above: the managers who hire people are very often stupid. So, the whole discussion (not having potential workers to choose from) could be fake. The methodology managers use to hire people is almost laughable. At first they eliminate from the pool "the overqualified".  It could today account more than half of the applicants.  Then they eliminate people with insufficient education.  Then too old or too young, undesired sex and some other parameters they have set. The remaining small pool is screened now for experience and that is what the article is all about. Rather than selecting talent, the search is focused on very particular  parameters that will not even pay off.  The agencies which make money teaching resume writing have figured it out. So, the resumes are tweaked to met these parameters. One can often see ads like: office cleaner wanted, must have two years office cleaning experience. It is absolutely stupid; it takes one day for a person with a positive IQ to learn cleaning skills. The factory jobs are basically the same. The operations are basically standard and it would take very little time for a talented person to learn them.  


Much worse.  The initial screening is not done by managers at all, but by HR people who are completely unversed in the applicable field.  When I ran a resume service, one of my first tricks was a two-column cover letter that juxtaposed an ad's requirements with the applicant's applicable background to make it crystal clear that the applicant met stated criteria.  If that wasn't included, then HR would usually toss the resume.



Steven,

Ain't that the truth. I saw one HR department turn away as "unqualified" applicants with four year accounting degrees--because the ad specified a two year degree.



(in reply to DarkSteven)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Factory Jobs Return, but Employers Find Skills Shor... - 7/5/2010 8:19:23 PM   
seekingOwnertoo


Posts: 1323
Joined: 8/1/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery


quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

quote:

ORIGINAL: Fellow

I agree with the sentiment "Musicmysterey" expressed above: the managers who hire people are very often stupid. So, the whole discussion (not having potential workers to choose from) could be fake. The methodology managers use to hire people is almost laughable.

{edited for length ... that is all
 


Much worse.  The initial screening is not done by managers at all, but by HR people who are completely unversed in the applicable field.  When I ran a resume service, one of my first tricks was a two-column cover letter that juxtaposed an ad's requirements with the applicant's applicable background to make it crystal clear that the applicant met stated criteria.  If that wasn't included, then HR would usually toss the resume.



Steven,

Ain't that the truth. I saw one HR department turn away as "unqualified" applicants with four year accounting degrees--because the ad specified a two year degree.






Gentlemen ... you nailed this ... cold! And you are right on the money, too!

Laughs ... had a seminar from a reputable headhunting firm a while back ... now ... I know how to get by HR ... easily ...

But getting the hiring Manager interested ... is now hopeless!

When you do what it takes to get past HR!

It truly is a ... clusterfuck!

Networking to the managers in your field ... or through a trusted employee ... seems to be the only hope.

It is no wonder, with all the money companies waste on HR ... there still is a need for headhunters, etc ...

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Factory Jobs Return, but Employers Find Skills Shor... - 7/6/2010 1:30:14 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		They said on the News last night (CNBC) that there's only one (1) job for every 70 graduates in Accounting, Engineering and Business.
Something is drastically wrong.

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

(in reply to seekingOwnertoo)
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RE: Factory Jobs Return, but Employers Find Skills Shor... - 7/6/2010 2:01:41 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

They said on the News last night (CNBC) that there's only one (1) job for every 70 graduates in Accounting, Engineering and Business.
Something is drastically wrong.


About the same as it was in 1970. Its the business cycle, stupid.

(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 55
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