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RE: Taxpayer Tribute to Queen Announced - 7/6/2010 12:39:01 PM

NorthernGent

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

when arthur treacher was still alive. damn I loved the fish and chips with malt vinegar in the newspaper cone, bleedin brilliant.

I know you love this sort of stuff Ron...and as you're from English stock and it's your birthday.....the fish and chip shops that started in the East End of London (though there is much constantion from the Northerners who will argue about this to the death and claim the first lot were in the North).....were ran by Jews who used to sell the stuff from the front rooms of their hovels (hovel not being a uniquely Jewish thing.....more an East End thing)......

So we can't even claim that....our one contribution to world cuisine.....began with a group of Polish/German/Russian Jews....supposedly.....

_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to mnottertail)

Post #: 41

RE: Taxpayer Tribute to Queen Announced - 7/6/2010 12:46:26 PM

Moonhead

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

back when they were still using thrupendie bits, the halcyon days of yore.

when the guvner would lose his license if you werent out when they called time at 10p

when arthur treacher was still alive. damn I loved the fish and chips with malt vinegar in the newspaper cone, bleedin brilliant.

actually around 73 or 4 and it might not have been 2.5 but it was two and some pfennigs at least, nixon had just resigned

Cool, I thought it'd have been a while back. The three day week and all of that stuff didn't do the pound any favours.
(It'd probably have been '73, as I think they'd changed the currency by '74. I'm told there was a bit of a fuss over that...)

NG: I wouldn't discount the East European immigrant stories about the origin of fish and chips (though supposedly there's a suspicion it may have been a Belgian thing originally), but it doesn't automatically follow from that that it was an East End thing. There's always been a lot of big Jewish communities oop north as well.

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to mnottertail)

Post #: 42

RE: Taxpayer Tribute to Queen Announced - 7/6/2010 1:15:30 PM

DomKen

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent
So we can't even claim that....our one contribution to world cuisine.....began with a group of Polish/German/Russian Jews....supposedly.....

I thought the English contribution to world cuisine was Chicken Tika. Certainly the dish isn't from India.

(in reply to NorthernGent)

Post #: 43

RE: Taxpayer Tribute to Queen Announced - 7/6/2010 2:11:13 PM

Moonhead

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Yep. That's the very model of a murghish dish. Most of the Pakistanis (I think Tikas are Pakistani not Indian, like a lot of what you get in a curry house) I've met wouldn't touch it with a bargepole.

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to DomKen)

Post #: 44

RE: Taxpayer Tribute to Queen Announced - 7/6/2010 3:49:35 PM

DomKen

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

Yep. That's the very model of a murghish dish. Most of the Pakistanis (I think Tikas are Pakistani not Indian, like a lot of what you get in a curry house) I've met wouldn't touch it with a bargepole.

I live near an area with a lot of Indian and Pakistani immigrants. Probably 50 restaurants of one cuisine or another from the subcontinent and none I've ever been in serve anything more than vaguely a Chicken Tika the way its served in curry houses in London.

(in reply to Moonhead)

Post #: 45

RE: Taxpayer Tribute to Queen Announced - 7/6/2010 4:46:46 PM

Aneirin

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Most of what constitutes as an Indian resturaunt or take away or combination I have heard from an Indian relative is actually Bangladeshi, but either way, the food is interesting, although Keralan food I do prefer.

As to the pope, as far as I am concerned, he is a burden we do not need, myself primarily because I have a particular dislike for the Roman Catholic church and it's disgraceful history.

_____________________________

Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

(in reply to DomKen)

Post #: 46

RE: Taxpayer Tribute to Queen Announced - 7/7/2010 7:02:54 AM

mnottertail

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Moonhead,

While there may have been Jews up north, NorthernGent is mostly right, that the east and west ends were mostly jewish ghettos, and it is widely historical by accident of other happenstance.

The Juwes are not the men who will be blamed for nothing.

'ave a kidney mate, or a bit of corned tit.

Jackie

< Message edited by mnottertail -- 7/7/2010 7:13:11 AM >

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Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

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Post #: 47

RE: Taxpayer Tribute to Queen Announced - 7/7/2010 7:54:47 AM

Moonhead

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I wasn't arguing with that at all. I was just pointing out that there were big Jewish ghettos elsewhere in the country, outside of London as well. Manchester, Newcastle and Leeds in particular all had big Jewish communities.

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to mnottertail)

Post #: 48

RE: Taxpayer Tribute to Queen Announced - 7/7/2010 11:57:10 AM

NorthernGent

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

NG: I wouldn't discount the East European immigrant stories about the origin of fish and chips (though supposedly there's a suspicion it may have been a Belgian thing originally), but it doesn't automatically follow from that that it was an East End thing. There's always been a lot of big Jewish communities oop north as well.

It's on record that Jewish East Londoners were selling fish and chips out of the front windows of their homes in the 1860s.....in Spitalfields and the like.....it also claimed there was a fish and chip shop in Oldham in 1865....claimed as the first in the country in Northern circles......

As Ron has brought in good old Jack...apparently Mary Kelly's last meal was fish and chips bought from one of the stalls along the way.....

_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to Moonhead)

Post #: 49

RE: Taxpayer Tribute to Queen Announced - 7/7/2010 12:06:15 PM

NorthernGent

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

The Juwes are not the men who will be blamed for nothing.

Much confusion over what was scribbled on the wall......the consensus is that it was: "The Juwes are the men who will not be blamed for nothing"......which could be intrepreted differently to yours....

All sorts of theories about this.....apparently it is the French spelling of Jews.....but most likely it was some little scroat writing bollocks on a wall....and JTR just dropped the apron there as he was heading home......

But......a copper passed that door in Wentworth Street....about an hour after the murder....no apron....no writing....nothing....an hour later he walked past again....with bloodied apron lying in the doorway......when it would have taken JTR 5 minutes to get there from the murder site....so JTR was hanging around for something.....or he went home put his knives away.......dipped his prized uteri in a jar....and went back out to scrawl on the wall......but then why write something on a wall that was so open to interpretation if he was trying to make a point?

This board needs a Jack The Ripper thread.

_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to mnottertail)

Post #: 50

RE: Taxpayer Tribute to Queen Announced - 7/7/2010 12:09:42 PM

Moonhead

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Which would have been 1889.
Either Manchester or London, then. The first in the country would depend on when the ones in Spitalfields were first opened, I suppose. Thanks. Quite a while before Harry Ramsden got in the act either way, in any case.

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to NorthernGent)

Post #: 51

RE: Taxpayer Tribute to Queen Announced - 7/7/2010 12:11:04 PM

mnottertail

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Actually, NG----

I had misremembered it. What you wrote is what I have seen as the most common and sensible version.

Yes, we do need a Ripper thread.

Aaron Kosminski

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to NorthernGent)

Post #: 52

RE: Taxpayer Tribute to Queen Announced - 7/7/2010 12:14:01 PM

MrRodgers

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

62p from each of us in the UK for last year. 10% down on the year before.

By crikey this monarchy thing is oppressive.

E

Royalty throughout history has always lived on the dole. We are talking a real 'welfare queen.'

(in reply to LadyEllen)

Post #: 53

RE: Taxpayer Tribute to Queen Announced - 7/7/2010 12:15:15 PM

Moonhead

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Joined: 9/21/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

The Juwes are not the men who will be blamed for nothing.

Much confusion over what was scribbled on the wall......the consensus is that it was: "The Juwes are the men who will not be blamed for nothing"......which could be intrepreted differently to yours....

All sorts of theories about this.....apparently it is the French spelling of Jews.....but most likely it was some little scroat writing bollocks on a wall....and JTR just dropped the apron there as he was heading home......

But......a copper passed that door in Wentworth Street....about an hour after the murder....no apron....no writing....nothing....an hour later he walked past again....with bloodied apron lying in the doorway......when it would have taken JTR 5 minutes to get there from the murder site....so JTR was hanging around for something.....or he went home put his knives away.......dipped his prized uteri in a jar....and went back out to scrawl on the wall......but then why write something on a wall that was so open to interpretation if he was trying to make a point?

This board needs a Jack The Ripper thread.

I do quite like Alan Moore's suggestion that it was something to do with Jubelom Jubelow and Jubewhatever from the Masonic rituals. William Gull is hardly a very likely suspect beyond that, though, even assuming it was saucy Jack himself behind the graffitti, which can't be proven.

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to NorthernGent)

Post #: 54

RE: Taxpayer Tribute to Queen Announced - 7/7/2010 12:16:30 PM

NorthernGent

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Joined: 7/10/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Actually, NG----

I had misremembered it. What you wrote is what I have seen as the most common and sensible version.

Yes, we do need a Ripper thread.

Aaron Kosminski

I reckon there are about 4 different versions knocking around....with two of the coppers writing down different things....

Ahhh....yes....poor Kosminski.....the bloke was eating out of gutters.....he weren't no Jack....those were the days when wanking was deemed to be: "sexually insane on account of solitary vice"....so those fellows didn't know a great deal about serial killers......they were looking for someone openly mad......when the likelihood is he was collected enough to convince his victims he was just another punter.......

_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to mnottertail)

Post #: 55

RE: Taxpayer Tribute to Queen Announced - 7/7/2010 12:45:20 PM

NorthernGent

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Joined: 7/10/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

The Juwes are not the men who will be blamed for nothing.

Much confusion over what was scribbled on the wall......the consensus is that it was: "The Juwes are the men who will not be blamed for nothing"......which could be intrepreted differently to yours....

All sorts of theories about this.....apparently it is the French spelling of Jews.....but most likely it was some little scroat writing bollocks on a wall....and JTR just dropped the apron there as he was heading home......

But......a copper passed that door in Wentworth Street....about an hour after the murder....no apron....no writing....nothing....an hour later he walked past again....with bloodied apron lying in the doorway......when it would have taken JTR 5 minutes to get there from the murder site....so JTR was hanging around for something.....or he went home put his knives away.......dipped his prized uteri in a jar....and went back out to scrawl on the wall......but then why write something on a wall that was so open to interpretation if he was trying to make a point?

This board needs a Jack The Ripper thread.

I do quite like Alan Moore's suggestion that it was something to do with Jubelom Jubelow and Jubewhatever from the Masonic rituals. William Gull is hardly a very likely suspect beyond that, though, even assuming it was saucy Jack himself behind the graffitti, which can't be proven.

I would seriously doubt that...Moonhead. Witnesses recalled a sailor looking bloke of about 5'6 height speaking to a few of the victims not long before the murders.

Two very good suspects have come to light in recent years.

Charles Le Grand (think he was Danish by birth).......he was a member of the Whitechaple Vigilance Committe so was certainly in the vicinity at the time of the murders....habitually cruel to prostitutes...and quite a few other traits that fit the profile....except he was tall......

And.....

James Kelly.....a Liverpudlian who was locked up in Broadmoor for killing and hacking at his wife.....he escaped and went to the US where similar ripper murders were committed.....problem being that there is no evidence he was in London during the period except the last murder....Mary Kelly....police beat a hasty path to James Kelly's lodging to track him down when the victim was discovered....leading some to believe he left something incriminating in Mary Kelly's hovel....and he may have been the 'hot potato' MacNaughton was talking of......i.e. a bloke who the police had locked up....but escaped their grasp and went on to slaughter women at a time when the police were despised and seen as useless......could have caused a riot or a series of riots....even threatened the establishment.....and he was around 5'6 which is the generally accepted height of JTR due to witness statements......

_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to Moonhead)

Post #: 56

RE: Taxpayer Tribute to Queen Announced - 7/7/2010 12:53:13 PM

Moonhead

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William Gull is a good suspect if you're writing fiction, as you can drag in the possibility that one of Mary Kelly's friends had mothered a royal bastard and Herself wanted it quietly solved without bringing in the police, but (as you say) he's a piss poor suspect in real terms. So's James Kelly, come to that.
I quite like the notion that he was a nobody: a butcher's apprentice or somebody who knew enough anatomy to carve organs out of people, but not enough to perform surgery. If a few pimps had tumbled as to who it was, that might explain why the killings stopped abruptly as well. Though on that level, a case can be made for Montague Druitt as well. The terrible thing that happened to Mary Kelly came before the bloke drowned himself, after all, and he clearly had no use for women.

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to NorthernGent)

Post #: 57

RE: Taxpayer Tribute to Queen Announced - 7/7/2010 1:27:27 PM

mnottertail

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when I look at (not the juwes writing) but the leather apron and others and the travel of direction from all the piecemeal accounts of sighting and times he had to have taken from the murders he had to live in the far southeastern direction of london or was a sailor headed for the docks, and for that reason I like the sailor for the job.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to Moonhead)

Post #: 58

RE: Taxpayer Tribute to Queen Announced - 7/7/2010 1:31:34 PM

Moonhead

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Yeah, there's quite a bit of stuff that could be taken as support for that. An east end midwife is another popular idea, isn't it?

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to mnottertail)

Post #: 59

RE: Taxpayer Tribute to Queen Announced - 7/7/2010 1:40:58 PM

NorthernGent

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

So's James Kelly, come to that.

Harsh considering the polis went looking for him after the last murder.....but he'd done one....to France.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

Though on that level, a case can be made for Montague Druitt as well. The terrible thing that happened to Mary Kelly came before the bloke drowned himself, after all, and he clearly had no use for women.

Poor Monty? The cricker playing barrister? The bloke was playing cricket in Blackheath on the morning following the Kelly murder......so he would have had to have gone some to have made his way back to that part of London and turned out for a spell in the slips as if there was nothing wrong in the world. There is absolutely nothing placing Monty anywhere near the murders....he was named only by MacNaughten.....who wrongly claimed he was a doctor....and called him Doctor D.....with some claiming he was actually talking about an American quack named Francis Tumblety....an interesting character of Irish descent if memory serves....known to house a large collection or organs and was in London at the time....by his own admission....and was bailed for 'gross indecency'........read frequenting male brothels...before skipping bail and fleeing to the US.....where Scotland Yard followed him and tried to track him down....the fact he was gay suggests it wasn't him.....although he's supposed to be the 'Batty Street Lodger' who left bloodied shirts before he fled.....and he was tall....whereas witness statements suggest short and stout....Druitt was too tall too.....

< Message edited by NorthernGent -- 7/7/2010 1:43:10 PM >

_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to Moonhead)

Post #: 60

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