quote:

ORIGINAL: lally2

i happen to be quite proud to identify with who i am and what i am - submissive and whilst i might not be submissive to everyone all of the time, my nature is to be giving and i tend to put other people first out of prefferance

we had a discussion a while ago about how can a slave consider herself a slave if she's without a Master - the responses were mixed, but generally speaking the self identified slaves felt that they were of a slave type simply waiting for their Dominant to come along some time (hopefully soon).

so im curious, why is it that some submissives appear to ditch their submissive identity and only identify as sub when with a Dominant.

if we accept that subs are not weak, helpless creatures and that in some respects they may even have to be stronger in order to get through life on their own and if we accept that the overt submission expressed with a Dominant is specific to that Dominant and not everyone is given the insight into who we are otherwise - why is it that to say we have a submissive nature or a submissive personality or that we are submissves living outside of a Ds dynamic makes people twitch and switch about and try to find some other explanation for themselves.

id love to understand this.  thank you xx

quote:

ORIGINAL: lally2
why is it that to say we have a submissive nature or a submissive personality or that we are submissves living outside of a Ds dynamic makes people twitch and switch about and try to find some other explanation for themselves.

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

ORIGINAL: lally2

wow, thanks guys - lots to take in - i suppose in the end i dont compartmentalise the variables in my life and being of a submissive type i consider to be just one other aspect of me, along with being a mother, podiatrist etc., - no one thing defines but it all gets thrown into the mix - end result me.

i completely agree that being submissive isnt an identity as such, though i identify as being of a submissive type  - i just wrongly assumed that people recognised their orientation in a more fluid, its one part of the whole, type of thing.

i understand this much better and thank you for sharing.

I do not think people compartmentalize it... at least that is not what I am reading...

I am a mother all of the time, but I only feel "motherly" towards certain people...

I am a daughter all of the time, but my mom is the only person I feel "daughterly" towards... if I were to lose my mother tomorrow, I would still know what it was to feel "daughterly", although I would not feel daughterly towards another woman, most likely ever again...

I think you are over analyzing what people are saying..... we all have these aspects of ourselves, relationships with others, they are fluid, those feelings we associate with some people, we do not feel every moment of every day...

I am not always feeling "hetrosexual". I am het, but I am not "feeling" that way, or thinking about it....If you asked people "How do you act out and relate to and feel about your hetrosexual orientation, you would get the same sort of diverse answers that you received on this topic...

quote:

so i dont feel submissive anymore than i feel daughterly or mothely either - its just aspects of who i am as a whole.

quote:

ORIGINAL: lally2

so im curious, why is it that some submissives appear to ditch their submissive identity and only identify as sub when with a Dominant.

if we accept that subs are not weak, helpless creatures and that in some respects they may even have to be stronger in order to get through life on their own and if we accept that the overt submission expressed with a Dominant is specific to that Dominant and not everyone is given the insight into who we are otherwise - why is it that to say we have a submissive nature or a submissive personality or that we are submissves living outside of a Ds dynamic makes people twitch and switch about and try to find some other explanation for themselves.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

I see all these words....easy going, deference, serving, etc. I dont' see them the same as being submissive necessarily.

actually niether do i necessarily - i have a vanilla friend who will go out of her way to be helpful and kind, but she isnt sub - at least, she hasnt learnt to hone those elements in her, though she did tell me about a vaguely Ds relationship she had once and she clearly enjoyed the memory.  i sometimes think that the element of D or s is in most people but society has crimped their acceptance of themselves.
 
i would say that over time i have gone from being vaguely vanilla to what i am now, fully accepting of who i am because of the relationships ive had, what ive learnt about myself and how i now conduct myself and handle the elements in me that before used to allow people to walk all over me and basically take the piss,  i have learnt to be strong entirely because i have learnt to understand myself and how i tick.  recognising the elements and why they are a function of me makes it easier to get through my day.
 
my friend struggles with the conflict of being too giving by snatching back what she gives because she needs to feel in control of herself and she doesnt know how else to do it other than take her giving back when she feels it compromises her.  thats how i used to be.  but i have accepted how i am and why i am and now i can be me without the conflict of giving and feeling taken - which is why i recognise that i am a submissive all of the time throughout my day with or without a Dominant - i see and feel the diference of how i used to be and how i am now as tangible and actually considerably stronger and more powerful than i ever was before.

All in all, I think trying to define dominance or submission in terms of our everyday lives in the end is counter-productive. Because in the end, we are all different and handle things differently. For those of us who aren't currently in a relationship, we still need to take care of life. There is no one to tell us how to take care of it or when to do it, we need to make those decisions for ourselves. Can everyone function in those situations? Based on some of the threads I see around here, no everyone can't. But I tend to feel sorry for those who need someone else to micromanage their lives, who can't rely on themselves to make decisions.
 
i cant speak for them, but i can say that for myself i find myself exhausting and depressing sometimes  - i have a hectic life and my organisational skills stink - but i get through.  for ages ive known that i needed to get proactive about a situation and leave, set myself up somewhere else all i needed was that little push i couldnt give myself, it was easier to stay with the rotten situation and not put my patients through the irritation of having to change their routine with me.  my D gave me that little push i needed.  it isnt that i cant face the world on my own, its just that im a whole lot braver when theres someone behind me seeing things clearly and telling me its ok.


Rather than trying to figure it all out though, I have found that life is much happier and easier if I just accept that I am who I am without trying to question it. Of course, I'm pretty happy with who I am, so that can make a difference.

to be honest i have figured myself out and i am comfortable going through life knowing that my personality is such that its ok to be me now, i am in a stronger position because i have learnt that i can give totally and its ok to do that, i can give up control and the world around me doesnt collapse - learning this through submission has made me stronger and braver - so in many ways i do submit myself to the day and the people around me because i can, mindfully and it in no way compromises me because i understand where its coming from now.  it isnt about being taken its about me giving because im more comfortable in the giving role.
 
im not saying this to sound big headed at all - not in the least - its just that when i use the lable submissive to describe me as a personality type i know that it is an accurate description of me and that never changes, in or out of a relationship.  its just that im not submissive to everyone around me and i dont drop to my knees at every whim and order from a stranger.  i am strong, much stronger purely because i have learnt what being a submissive is and i am in control of that now.

quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527
Then again, I also think it's true that all human behaviors... submission included... require context. And some people have more specific contexts than others.

quote:

ORIGINAL: lally2
youve said many times that carol is a submissive in all aspects of her world and not just in context to you - knowing her as you do, if you were suddenly beamed up by scotty, would she continue being who she is or would she change once outside of youre context.

quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

quote:

ORIGINAL: lally2
youve said many times that carol is a submissive in all aspects of her world and not just in context to you - knowing her as you do, if you were suddenly beamed up by scotty, would she continue being who she is or would she change once outside of youre context.

Even Carol, when pushed far enough, can get dominant. What I have said of Carol is that her default mental state is that of submissive and she reflexively submits to pretty much the world at large. But given enough provocation, she can be dominant. So even she has contexts in which she adopts a dominant viewpoint.

Carol's context for submission is pretty broad but it is still finite.

Humans, real humans, are complex, neh?

quote:

ORIGINAL: lally2
i completely agree that being submissive isn't an identity as such, though i identify as being of a submissive type  - i just wrongly assumed that people recognised their orientation in a more fluid, its one part of the whole, type of thing.

quote:

ORIGINAL: hopelesslyInvo

you can't be a slave without an owner anymore than you can be an amputee without having lost at least one limb.

you can 'want' to be a slave, just as you could want to be an astronaut; and likewise, as i mentioned with being a submissive, anyone can be a slave.

quote:

ORIGINAL: wandersalone

quote:

ORIGINAL: lally2
i completely agree that being submissive isn't an identity as such, though i identify as being of a submissive type  - i just wrongly assumed that people recognised their orientation in a more fluid, its one part of the whole, type of thing.

If I can respond to the last part of your quote above Lally....  I know that for me I love being in D/s relationships, it is the only time where I truly feel relationship wise that I can be myself however I also know that I feel that strong need to submit to so few men that it can and has been years at times in between having that connection.  My desire to submit really is so specific to a person that after each relationship ending I have no idea if I will feel it again.  Do I still hope and long to feel that D/s connection again...yes

I don't have a submissive personality or nature and if anything am the opposite and this shows in my work and all of my other relationships

In between meeting these dominants who evoke my submission I consider myself simply to be me, a woman who is living her life and I tend to not place too many labels on myself where possible. 

quote:

ORIGINAL: lally2

i honestly dont see it as a label, any more than being a woman is a label - but i see what you mean, you are who you are and being submissive is a response rather than an attitude. xx

quote:

ORIGINAL: CaringandReal

I'm a submissive through and through, but capable of doing what I have to do to "pass" in a vanilla world. I don't do it primarily out of fear (loss of job/reputation/etc.) I do it because I don't like making others uncomfortable and flaunting a psychosexual orientation in their faces, particularly one they do not share or understand well, is doing precisely that even if sexual terms are never mentioned--most people can sense the psychology, unless you hide it, and do not respond well to it. I don't like doing that to others, I think it is rude. So I act the roles required of me in order to blend in--up to a point. I will mentor in the workplace. But I avoid management or anything that would give me control over others' lives like the plague. I have left gigs that wanted me to go in that direction. This means there's a limit to how sucessful I can become, but luckily or not, I could care less about that. :) The nature of my work tends to put me in the role of the lone specialist with half a dozen bosses, so I don't have to face the management toll of doom very often, but when places grow rapidly, that role is sometimes thrust upon you. And when it is offered me, I refuse, even if it requires uncertainty and sacrifice (losing a position) to do so.

quote:

ORIGINAL: wandersalone

quote:

ORIGINAL: lally2

i honestly dont see it as a label, any more than being a woman is a label - but i see what you mean, you are who you are and being submissive is a response rather than an attitude. xx

bingo   I actually wrote something similar in an email to my d type last night

quote:

ORIGINAL: trueshadow

quote:

ORIGINAL: hopelesslyInvo
you can't be a slave without an owner anymore than you can be an amputee without having lost at least one limb.
you can 'want' to be a slave, just as you could want to be an astronaut; and likewise, as i mentioned with being a submissive, anyone can be a slave.

I consider myself a total and complete slave, just in search of a Domme to serve.  Having a mental bent isn't like losing a physical part of oneself.