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RE: What is the 'nanny state' ? - 7/8/2010 7:37:26 AM   
Elisabella


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quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

To me it has more to do with local branches of govt. such as city councils. The city of Chicago banning fau grau for instance, or New York banning trans fats in all restaurants. It is not the job of some idiot local official to decide what can be served in a restaurant.


Ha I remember when that happened in Chicago. What a joke. And also a perfect example of the topic.

I also think the idea of nanny state extends to total hand holding. Like in Australia, cigarettes are sold with pictures of rotting lungs and amputated feet with a big label that says "SMOKING IS BAD" like people actually did not know that and the rotting gangrenous foot on the cigarette pack was totally necessary to inform them.

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RE: What is the 'nanny state' ? - 7/8/2010 8:33:45 AM   
juliaoceania


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quote:

A state where the authority treats the people as children, or incapable of living life without hurting ourselves


Unfortunately, after starting my research up in Yosemite, I am thinking that people do need a nanny state...

I was aware of the stupidity inherent within human beings before I went up there, especially the tourist kind, but what one employee told me of the questions he was regularly asked convinces me that there is a significant portion of people who cannot think high enough to keep themselves safe... these are the questions he told me about (or various forms of them) are as follows

1. Is there a switch that turns Yosemite Falls off at night? And where is it located? ( I actually overheard someone ask a ranger if they recently "diverted" the Falls)

2. Where is the bear pen where they house the bears? (Insert any other form of wildlife into that question, as if Yosemite is a zoo.

3. Is there a place I can four wheel in Yosemite Valley?

4. Do you sell deer food in this store?


Then there are the behaviors... walking into the street to get the "perfect" photo. This of course is not done correctly unless a tourist backs up traffic on busy days, or steps right out in front of a tour bus almost getting mowed down.

Then there are people who take toddlers up to the base of Yosemite Falls, on slippery wet rocks, when the falls are full... of course, there is usually at least one Falls related death per year because people are fucking stupid...


I rest my case for he nanny state... yes some people do need their coffee marked "hot"

< Message edited by juliaoceania -- 7/8/2010 8:34:35 AM >


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RE: What is the 'nanny state' ? - 7/8/2010 9:01:59 AM   
juliaoceania


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quote:

Requiring adults to wear seat belts in vehicles


When people do not wear seat belts this causes more deaths... this also causes higher costs at the emergency rooms when people are seriously injured. Emergency workers also come to the scene of an accident and have to administer care.... those not strapped in tend to be harder to clean up. Now if you are willing to mark your car as a person who refuses to wear seat belts, we can just leave your body in the wreckage since you have thus agreed not to cost more in emergency care and cleanup... we will just pull your bloody corpse off on the shoulder of the road and let you be carrion...



< Message edited by juliaoceania -- 7/8/2010 9:16:53 AM >


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RE: What is the 'nanny state' ? - 7/8/2010 10:06:52 AM   
eihwaz


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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella
Requiring adults to wear seat belts in vehicles

When people do not wear seat belts this causes more deaths... this also causes higher costs at the emergency rooms when people are seriously injured. Emergency workers also come to the scene of an accident and have to administer care.... those not strapped in tend to be harder to clean up. Now if you are willing to mark your car as a person who refuses to wear seat belts,...

And analogously for all cases where society ends up paying for individual bad choices.

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RE: What is the 'nanny state' ? - 7/8/2010 10:08:52 AM   
willbeurdaddy


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The "Nanny state" is similar to subspace, but you get her there specifically via her dressing like Mary Poppins. Use your imagination re the umbrella.

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RE: What is the 'nanny state' ? - 7/8/2010 10:49:18 AM   
vincentML


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quote:

The problem remains even if we do get specific. That's because what is true in those aspects, one begins to feel as if the state still serves everybody, is in the business of redistributing wealth to almost everybody and in any number of forms and especially now with our huge involvement in business.


The "nanny state" is just a term "righteous" discontents use to denigrate further those who are in need of help.

The US Federal Constitution and most of the State Constitutions contain a "general welfare clause." It is the duty of the Government to promote the general welfare. The SCOTUS ruled in the 1930s that the income tax and the social security program fall within that clause. There is probably a Medicare ruling as well. I can't pin point it at the moment. I am writing from the unemployment queue, waiting for cheap bastard Repuboes to lend a hand. Brother, can you spare a dime?

Talk of "redistribution of wealth" is just code for "I got mine so fu*k the social contract."

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RE: What is the 'nanny state' ? - 7/8/2010 11:03:57 AM   
eihwaz


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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
The "nanny state" is just a term "righteous" discontents use to denigrate further those who are in need of help.

[...]

Talk of "redistribution of wealth" is just code for "I got mine so fu*k the social contract."

"Personal responsibility" is another buzzphrase frequently used when decrying the "nanny state."

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RE: What is the 'nanny state' ? - 7/8/2010 11:08:04 AM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML



Talk of "redistribution of wealth" is just code for "I got mine so fu*k the social contract."



Actually its code for "punish the producers so that everybody gets fucked".

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RE: What is the 'nanny state' ? - 7/8/2010 11:42:33 AM   
domiguy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

The "Nanny state" is similar to subspace, but you get her there specifically via her dressing like Mary Poppins. Use your imagination re the umbrella.


One of the dumbest things I have ever read.

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RE: What is the 'nanny state' ? - 7/8/2010 12:31:09 PM   
Jeffff


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quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

The "Nanny state" is similar to subspace, but you get her there specifically via her dressing like Mary Poppins. Use your imagination re the umbrella.


One of the dumbest things I have ever read.



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RE: What is the 'nanny state' ? - 7/8/2010 12:33:58 PM   
juliaoceania


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quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

The "Nanny state" is similar to subspace, but you get her there specifically via her dressing like Mary Poppins. Use your imagination re the umbrella.


One of the dumbest things I have ever read.


The bar keeps getting higher, doesn't it?

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RE: What is the 'nanny state' ? - 7/8/2010 12:41:59 PM   
Moonhead


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quote:

ORIGINAL: eihwaz

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
The "nanny state" is just a term "righteous" discontents use to denigrate further those who are in need of help.

[...]

Talk of "redistribution of wealth" is just code for "I got mine so fu*k the social contract."

"Personal responsibility" is another buzzphrase frequently used when decrying the "nanny state."


Most commonly by people who wouldn't recognise personal responsibilities if one bit them in the arse.

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RE: What is the 'nanny state' ? - 7/8/2010 12:47:35 PM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

One of the dumbest things I have ever read.


The bar keeps getting higher, doesn't it?


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RE: What is the 'nanny state' ? - 7/8/2010 12:47:54 PM   
juliaoceania


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quote:

Most commonly by people who wouldn't recognise personal responsibilities if one bit them in the arse.


See, this is my issue with some libertarians...

They want to drive on the roads, use the hospitals, have electricity. They want to be able to call the cops, the fire department when something bad happens..

But they do not want to pay for it, and they do not want anyone telling them not to do stupid shit like ride around on a motorcycle without a helmet even though it costs taxpayers to scrape their brains up off the road, put them back into their heads, and pay someone to feed them for the rest of their lives

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RE: What is the 'nanny state' ? - 7/8/2010 1:21:10 PM   
joether


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The 'Nanny State' as some of already pointed out, is a concept of distrust towards a govermental body. In the usual case (conservatives in the USA included), such a state, is when laws and regulations are imposed to correct moral, ethical, or some other social imbalance, and to bring justice to the people. They decry that people should be allowed to be stupid, unwise, and most of all....a danger to themselves and others around them. For conservatives, in the USA, it is often used as a buzz word or talking point; similar to 'Socialized Medicine' or that evil 'liberal media'. For conservatives, a 'Liberal State' is the same as a 'Nanny State' to them. Even though the two are surprisingly different in scope. The 'Nanny State' uses restrictions and penalties to ensure cooperation of the populous to order. A 'Liberal State' is one that incorporates some laws to nuture a direction of cooperation, believing time and patience will win over the ignorant masses.

A 'Conservative Nanny State' also exists, but quite the opposite concept. Yeah, how many conservatives on these boards know what that is? In this version of the Nanny State, conservatives want two major concepts to become ingrain in the populous:

A) A steady break down of laws, regulations and rules, that interupt profit. No, not commerce, nor industry, but compete net profit. The concept of 'Commerce' or 'Industry' implies rules and laws, things a conservative nanny state would hate to have. So, oil disaster in the Gulf, would be brushed off as a '...small oil problem that won't effect anything on shore'. Under the conservative nanny state, the media or those that would/could report on the facts, would be silenced in any number of ways.

B) For the populous to have a growing and deep-seated distrust of their goverment. To limit their goverment to the point that it could not do any real or meaningful measures against company profits. The populous votes in those whom are happy to serve as puppets to the company. Disasters and problems are over looked or minimized. The goverment, is essentially, a mockery of any real justice. The law enforcement takes a blind eye towards the company (whom is funding their operations) and its officals. So if a mid-level manager is caught murdering a competing company representative, or one of those 'lame civil rights activists', the matter is sweep under the rug.

Before the conservatives start to bitch (which they will), it would do wise to remeber, this kind of crap took place in the USA. Coal towns, steel industries, and even the textile markets along the East Coast, each had their company's pushing the conservative nanny state in to place. The federal goverment stepped in, and it took YEARS to battle the concept. Many laws were passed, like, the Sherman Act of 1890 (the anti-trust act, that broke up monopolizes and cartels). US Marshals and the early form of the FBI were used to break up the violence and threats of violence.

Today, Americans enjoy many of the benefits of these actions without even knowing it. Children are not forced to work at ages below 16. Forcing an employee to work 16 hours days without a break or rest. The creation of the National Labor Relations Board. Along with many civil rights issues worked in tandum with workforces concepts. Blacks, and other minorities being able to work, women allowed in to institutions that were regarded as a 'men only' club (like medicine). Organizations like the KKK were used by the companies. Organized labor (i.e. Unions) was formed to give workers rights and protections.

I could talk about unions, business and economic history of the USA all day. would be off topic....but very interesting! So essentially, as I stated before, the conservative nanny state has been observed in U.S. history in the last 200 years, and never for good reasons.

One final point regarding the State of Massachusets; Its a progressive state, NOT, a nanny state. Recently, Massachusetts became the 29th state to enforce a ban on the use of cellphones, pagers, smartphones, laptops, etc, when operating a motor vehicle. And the 'nanny state' conservatives have come out complaining that this will be a bad thing. Sorry, but I dont want to be killed by an idiot conservative, to stupid to know that texting on their IPod, while traveling 70 mph and not watching the road....IS A BAD THING!

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RE: What is the 'nanny state' ? - 7/8/2010 1:30:04 PM   
Moonhead


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All fair points, but that sounds a lot more like an "absentee landlord" state than a "nanny" state.

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RE: What is the 'nanny state' ? - 7/8/2010 2:26:02 PM   
vincentML


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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML



Talk of "redistribution of wealth" is just code for "I got mine so fu*k the social contract."



Actually its code for "punish the producers so that everybody gets fucked".


the producers are already fucked by the banks so are also standing in line for help from the Nanny, except they are deluded into thinking they are Ayn Rand heros.

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RE: What is the 'nanny state' ? - 7/8/2010 2:36:10 PM   
vincentML


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quote:

For the populous to have a growing and deep-seated distrust of their goverment. To limit their goverment to the point that it could not do any real or meaningful measures against company profits. The populous votes in those whom are happy to serve as puppets to the company. Disasters and problems are over looked or minimized.


It is quite amazing how the "Barons" dazzle the voting working classes into believing they share the same values. Somewhat akin to the Plantation owners in the old Slave Power convincing back country Whites they shared the same destiny.

excellent post, joether

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RE: What is the 'nanny state' ? - 7/8/2010 2:50:05 PM   
Sanity


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Heres a perfect example of how our nanny government is protecting us. Boric acid is mined directly from the Earth. Its perfectly natural and has many widely accepted uses. Its sold as a rash cure, you put it on a babys butt and it will cure diaper rash in no time. Mix a little in water and wash your eye out with it and it will cure pink eye and other infections. Aspirin is more deadly, while baking soda is only slightly worse in toxicity.

Heres the MSDS safety data sheet for boric acid:

http://www.sciencelab.com/xMSDS-Boric_acid-9927105

If a small businessman asks a night janitor to spread a little of it around as a safe, natural insecticide (which is a widely accepted use) and then clean it up later and he has every right to refuse due to OSHA regulations.



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RE: What is the 'nanny state' ? - 7/8/2010 2:57:54 PM   
mnottertail


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well, that safety sheet aint all that pretty.   and unless you show me the osha regulation, I am going to have do say I suspect this is more of your usual joe the plumber hyperbole .

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