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RE: Algebra is a Muslim Conspiracy - 7/7/2010 4:01:16 PM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline 		and don't ever drink coffee ever again or play chess or use a parachute or shampoo your hair....

http://english.pravda.ru/science/tech/19-12-2006/85999-Muslims-0

(in reply to Politesub53)
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RE: Algebra is a Muslim Conspiracy - 7/7/2010 4:03:24 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

I thought you said it was the Greeks ?  Please forgive me, I have only been doing this 34 years and 11 months.

I bet you googled.


Doing what? Garbling internet postings? You preceded Al Gore by a bunch of years then, congrats.

I said and repeat that it was a Greek who is credited with what is considered to be the first treatise on Algebra. The earlier Egyptian and Babylonian writings were missing the 3 key elements of symbols, negative numbers and fractions.

Yup....I googled Diophantus and al-Kharizmi to make sure it was a 500 year gap between them, because if it was only 250 the nits here would have raised hell about it. Other than that, basic history of math doesnt take the internet.

(in reply to Politesub53)
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RE: Algebra is a Muslim Conspiracy - 7/7/2010 4:11:58 PM   
Politesub53


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Status: offline 		Were there not Babylonian stones or parchments found with algebra written on them. I would have thought that was some type of treatise. There were also some tables found that the Babylonians had written but I cant recall the name.

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RE: Algebra is a Muslim Conspiracy - 7/7/2010 4:22:11 PM   
DomKen


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Status: offline 		Actually fully modern algebra is the result of the work of Descartes. Prior to that symbols were much more restricted, as seen in Diophantus and Brahmagupta.

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RE: Algebra is a Muslim Conspiracy - 7/7/2010 4:23:01 PM   
Sanity


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The Babylonians weren't Muslims though, Islam is a very new and an extremely violent religion that spread through that region by means of the sword. I'm not saying that all Muslims are violent, they're not, I am merely speaking the truth about the way the religion itself has spread.


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

Babylonians? Isnt that Iraq?

Clearly they devised algebra for their WMD programme, the bastards

E


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RE: Algebra is a Muslim Conspiracy - 7/7/2010 4:23:13 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Were there not Babylonian stones or parchments found with algebra written on them. I would have thought that was some type of treatise. There were also some tables found that the Babylonians had written but I cant recall the name.



Nothing with symbols or any sort of formal development, just descriptions of problems and the solutions, without explanation. The tables you may be thinking of were introduction of a base 60 counting system?

(in reply to Politesub53)
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RE: Algebra is a Muslim Conspiracy - 7/7/2010 4:26:33 PM   
Elisabella


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

The Babylonians weren't Muslims though, Islam is a very new and an extremely violent religion that spread through that region by means of the sword. I'm not saying that all Muslims are violent, they're not, I am merely speaking the truth about the way the religion itself has spread.


So it's like the Arab version of Christianity then?

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RE: Algebra is a Muslim Conspiracy - 7/7/2010 4:28:55 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Actually fully modern algebra is the result of the work of Descartes. Prior to that symbols were much more restricted, as seen in Diophantus and Brahmagupta.


Geometry yes, algebra, hardly.

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RE: Algebra is a Muslim Conspiracy - 7/7/2010 4:31:36 PM   
Sanity


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Christianity was certainly used by various kings and other power brokers as a tool to acquire and hold wealth and power, but its a bit different. As regards violence the teachings of Jesus and the teachings of  Mohammad are as different as night and day.





< Message edited by Sanity -- 7/7/2010 4:36:35 PM >

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RE: Algebra is a Muslim Conspiracy - 7/7/2010 4:33:20 PM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Were there not Babylonian stones or parchments found with algebra written on them. I would have thought that was some type of treatise. There were also some tables found that the Babylonians had written but I cant recall the name.



Nothing with symbols or any sort of formal development, just descriptions of problems and the solutions, without explanation. The tables you may be thinking of were introduction of a base 60 counting system?

Actually Babylonian tablets do show the use of a symbol. As a matter of fact they show the evolution of a symbol. In early tablets they used a blank space as a placeholder (where we would use zero as in 101). Later tablets use two slanted lines as a placeholder. Note this is simply a place holder for a no value not a true number zero. Zero as a numeral is a much later invention of primarily the Indians.

< Message edited by DomKen -- 7/7/2010 4:34:15 PM >

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RE: Algebra is a Muslim Conspiracy - 7/7/2010 4:35:02 PM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Actually fully modern algebra is the result of the work of Descartes. Prior to that symbols were much more restricted, as seen in Diophantus and Brahmagupta.


Geometry yes, algebra, hardly.

That made less sense than usual.

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
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RE: Algebra is a Muslim Conspiracy - 7/7/2010 4:49:08 PM   
Aneirin


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From: Tamaris
Status: offline 		Ah, that is of course if the muslims actually understand their belief beyond what they are told. Take an Islamic scholar for example, what they understand is far different from the uneducated believer. Which bears a striking resemblance to Christianity, as that also was spread by the sword and gun powder. Methinks these dominant religions have been perverted from their originality by mean men, both Islamic and Christian. The only hope left is to discard such beliefs or at least start afresh whence the true message has been found. I as a pagan wanderer have not given up all hope in the Abrahamic beliefs, for I still search for a truth I know is buried deep under layers of shite constructed by mean men.

But of what Islam has given to the human race, there is much, check out;

1001 inventions

(I would have provided a more accurate link, but for some reason the website 1001 inventions.com and muslimheritage.com refuse to load on google.)




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(in reply to Sanity)
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RE: Algebra is a Muslim Conspiracy - 7/7/2010 5:30:14 PM   
flcouple2009


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Status: offline 		Here you go Wilbur, and I am using Wiki because I don't have time to actually pull anything from Vogel.

Diophantus is often called “the father of algebra" because he contributed greatly to number theory, mathematical notation, and because Arithmetica contains the earliest known use of syncopated notation [11]. However, it seems that many of the methods for solving linear and quadratic equations used by Diophantus go back to Babylonian mathematics. For this reason mathematical historian Kurt Vogel writes [citation needed]: “Diophantus was not, as he has often been called, the father of algebra. Nevertheless, his remarkable, if unsystematic, collection of indeterminate problems is a singular achievement that was not fully appreciated and further developed until much later.”

Diophantus basically had some thoughts that others later used to build upon.  The basis for many of his thoughts were the old Bablonian tablets Polite shared with you earlier.  One of Diophantus problems was he had no formulas.  He never developed any, all of the problems had to be solve independently no matter how close they were to one another.

And yes no matter how much you piss and moan the Islamic scholars were some of the first to take those works and build upon them.

< Message edited by flcouple2009 -- 7/7/2010 6:11:30 PM >

(in reply to Aneirin)
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RE: Algebra is a Muslim Conspiracy - 7/7/2010 6:12:17 PM   
Aneirin


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Status: offline 		Mesopotamia again, the cradle of civilisation and home of the Babylonians and the one time school of Islamic scientific arts as well as at one time, the Islamic capital before Mecca, all in Iraq. A place where now there are allied troops following a war, is there something more in this beyond a war fought on lies and oil ?

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RE: Algebra is a Muslim Conspiracy - 7/8/2010 3:28:35 AM   
LadyEllen


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From: Stourport-England
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


The Babylonians weren't Muslims though, Islam is a very new and an extremely violent religion that spread through that region by means of the sword. I'm not saying that all Muslims are violent, they're not, I am merely speaking the truth about the way the religion itself has spread.


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

Babylonians? Isnt that Iraq?

Clearly they devised algebra for their WMD programme, the bastards

E



Well thanks for the history lesson professor. Clearly I had no idea the Babylonians werent Muslim, and clearly my comment was made in all seriousness.

Islam is a few centuries younger than Christianity - would you say the latter is very new too? I would, particularly for us here in England where it only achieved victory a couple of centuries after Mohammed had popped his slippers. Christianity is less than a thousand years old in some parts of Europe.

Christianity was spread, particularly through northern, central and eastern Europe with extreme violence. As example, examine what the Franks did to the Saxons and what the first "saintly" king of Norway did to his own people, forcing many to flee to Iceland.

You only have to look at the texts chosen to be part of its scripture to see far worse instructions to violence, including genocide and ethnic cleansing, than anything in the Koran.

And in closing, it really doesnt matter what it might be that you are saying. The message is loud and clear.

E

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RE: Algebra is a Muslim Conspiracy - 7/8/2010 3:37:58 AM   
zephyroftheNorth


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Status: offline 		Amazing, simply amazing. All this seriousness from an OP that was (correct me if I'm wrong) meant to be lighthearted. *shakes head*

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RE: Algebra is a Muslim Conspiracy - 7/8/2010 3:50:14 AM   
LadyEllen


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Status: offline 		Such is the problem with a steady diet of Fucks & Fiends - the subject can no longer tell the difference between fantastical confabulations and reality.

E

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RE: Algebra is a Muslim Conspiracy - 7/8/2010 3:52:27 AM   
zephyroftheNorth


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Status: offline 		Such is the problem with posting in P&R I guess

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(in reply to LadyEllen)
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RE: Algebra is a Muslim Conspiracy - 7/8/2010 7:22:40 AM   
Hippiekinkster


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Status: offline 		And there is also some evidence that the concepts of algebra were developed on the Indian subcontinent several hundred years before the Christian Era. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_mathematics

It's possible that there was communication between Babylonian and Indus Valley mathematicians.

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(in reply to Elisabella)
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RE: Algebra is a Muslim Conspiracy - 7/8/2010 7:28:20 AM   
mnottertail


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Status: offline 		Ali Ja Bara was the wizard who defined algebra
Ali Khorizimi was the wizard who defined algorhythms


Thus endeth your first day of comp sci 101.

Professor Plum, in the study

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