RE: For the guys needing to be "discreet"... (Full Version)

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OttersSwim -> RE: For the guys needing to be "discreet"... (7/10/2010 10:35:49 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

quote:

ORIGINAL: BoiJen
The problem here is that pointing out character flaws individuals' readily admit to having isn't "bashing".

Yeah, it was stupid of me to come into the "Men suck forum" and bitch about yet another "men suck" post.


You know Jeff...I don't consider this a "men suck" thread. 

I don't know how much you frequent the Mistress Forum, but we get a fair number of guys in here that are either considering cheating, about to cheat, or already at it.  This place seems to draw such people as one of the first places people start searching is the Internet.  Same way we draw the (mostly) clueless "force fem me", "trample me", "make me your toilet", self-focused fetishists.

It means a concentration of folk that really have lost their way, or are about to.  A bit like working in a prison day after day and interacting with prisoners - people who faced moral challenges and took a less than honorable path.

It gets heavy on the Ladies, and those of us who frequent their fine forum.  It can, if you let it, give the impression that "all men" are like this, and give the perception to those around that somehow there is this "man bashing" going on, and that the opinion of males is very negative.

I don't believe that is true at all.  Especially among the Ladies who are regular posters.  I believe that they understand in a very clear way what distinguishes a "man" from a "male", and appreciate those that embrace being "men" as opposed to just "male".  This, I admit, is some of my own belief and spin if you will put on it - because I believe that there is definite code of honor that "men" in general embrace and you see it clearly in their attitudes, and specifically in their actions.

Those that come here and are in a state of moral confusion, or in open and active deception, are met with pretty hard words.  My personal opinion is that for the most part, those words are justified.  Sometimes, people just need to have their actions reflected back to them in a "mirror darkly" as it were.



LadyHibiscus -> RE: For the guys needing to be "discreet"... (7/10/2010 10:46:36 AM)

Thank you, Otters.

I am really seeing Jeff in a new light, though. Always good to get educated, no matter how late.



OttersSwim -> RE: For the guys needing to be "discreet"... (7/10/2010 11:15:01 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

Thank you, Otters.

I am really seeing Jeff in a new light, though. Always good to get educated, no matter how late.


No Lady H, I don't think Jeff is any different or in any new light, nor in fact are any of the other male Dominant's here on the site.  If you don't come into the Mistress' forum very often, it is easy to miss the drinking from the fire hose aspect of clueless male posts.  If you don't have a "female" profile, you don't see much of the flood of "let me worship you before I have even met you" cmail messages that you all get.  The overall impression of negativity stands out, however, and I think it is easy for folks not terribly involved in the Mistress' Forum to garner from it an impression that "most of what goes on in there is man bashing".

Nobody's bad, evil, or wrong...I just don't think there are enough hours in the average day to keep completely up with everything that goes on here and so people "are people" and garner impressions that become opinions...



SweetDommes -> RE: For the guys needing to be "discreet"... (7/10/2010 12:22:43 PM)

Otter, you could not possibly be more right about the comparison of working in a prison to dealing with the clueless cheaters/about-to-be-cheaters around here. Day in and day out I see them, I deal with them ... they all think that *they* are the exception to the rules, that *they* are so special that they can do whatever they want and it doesn't matter about anyone or anything else. And at work, they wonder why I have so little patience with them - at least there I can give them some kind of actual punishment (that they won't get off on ... most of them are pretty shitty when you take away their comissary for 2 weeks)

I'm with the others - man or woman cheating makes them slime. If you make vows to be faithful, then you should follow through. If you can't, then have the guts to say so and make a clean break (or ... as clean as you can ... it's not easy, but in the long run, it's for the best).

There is another site that I'm on where you answer questions and mark how you would prefer others to answer so that the site can match you up with others. one of the questions is if you would consider dating someone who was "married," "seeing someone," or "available" ("available" = marries or seeing someone, but still looking for others to date/have sex with) ... of course, I answer no, but want a potential partner to answer 'yes' - because I'm listed as available, but we are only looking to add one more to our family, not a couple, and we won't share. I've gotten multiple messages ranging from blasting me for being a hypocrit to questioning my reasoning. That doesn't change my stance about it - now or ever. Something else may, someday, change my opinion about it ... but not at this point.



MsMillgrove -> RE: For the guys needing to be "discreet"... (7/11/2010 9:08:52 AM)

I used to try to be helpful.. to help men learn how to stay inside their own marriages and still get some satisfaction by seeing and bringing out the domme characteristics of their own wives. No you're not going to turn the wife into some fantasy bitch in tall boots with a whip, but.. you really can get a lot of mileage out of that Queen in your own house. I have had excellent sucess with married males in virtual worlds.. who really were willing to give it a try and managed to avoid cheating on their wives. Here at CM, never. Why not? I think because the ones that arrive here are absolutely determined to live out their fantasies at whatever cost to the marriage or the wife.

And they will never understand that we as women do not want to contribute to another woman's unhappiness, to help a male damage his marriage. What possible reason would we have for this--what would make the male so special that we'd trample our own ethics and self-esteem in exchange for what they have to offer. They don't have a damn thing to offer any of us.. so thanks Otter for explaining why we get very weary of the endless married men's pleas for help.



LadyHibiscus -> RE: For the guys needing to be "discreet"... (7/11/2010 11:51:10 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: OttersSwim

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

Thank you, Otters.

I am really seeing Jeff in a new light, though. Always good to get educated, no matter how late.


No Lady H, I don't think Jeff is any different or in any new light, nor in fact are any of the other male Dominant's here on the site.  If you don't come into the Mistress' forum very often, it is easy to miss the drinking from the fire hose aspect of clueless male posts.  If you don't have a "female" profile, you don't see much of the flood of "let me worship you before I have even met you" cmail messages that you all get.  The overall impression of negativity stands out, however, and I think it is easy for folks not terribly involved in the Mistress' Forum to garner from it an impression that "most of what goes on in there is man bashing".

Nobody's bad, evil, or wrong...I just don't think there are enough hours in the average day to keep completely up with everything that goes on here and so people "are people" and garner impressions that become opinions...




You are a kind and understanding man, Otters. I am a cranky old biddy. [:)] Hibbers ain't buying it.



AlexandraLynch -> RE: For the guys needing to be "discreet"... (7/12/2010 10:26:09 PM)

I am perfectly willing to talk a guy through how to uncover the Domme in his wife.  But my requirement is pretty ironclad....if you're married, I have lunch with you and your wife and my husband, and one of the topics is what she can handle me doing to you. I'm not going to send you home with cane stripes if she has a problem with that. I'm not going to touch your cock if she has a problem with that. She is your primary relationship, and I respect that I am playing on her ground. Even if you don't.

So far I have never had anyone take me up on it. 



LadyConstanze -> RE: For the guys needing to be "discreet"... (7/13/2010 4:07:20 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: AlexandraLynch

I am perfectly willing to talk a guy through how to uncover the Domme in his wife.  But my requirement is pretty ironclad....if you're married, I have lunch with you and your wife and my husband, and one of the topics is what she can handle me doing to you. I'm not going to send you home with cane stripes if she has a problem with that. I'm not going to touch your cock if she has a problem with that. She is your primary relationship, and I respect that I am playing on her ground. Even if you don't.

So far I have never had anyone take me up on it. 



Funny, I always had the same reaction, a few of them told me the wife is OK with that, when I said "So you don't mind me talking to her?" And they disappeared.



PeonForHer -> RE: For the guys needing to be "discreet"... (7/13/2010 5:11:47 AM)

What about if a man didn't have a wife or girlfriend - would you have asked 'Is it OK to speak to your mother about it?'  I must admit, I'd kind of hope that a Domme be discreet about that, at least.  My Mum can be a bit prim. 



DemonKia -> RE: For the guys needing to be "discreet"... (7/13/2010 5:20:25 AM)

A local D-type claims a don't-ask-don't-tell arrangement, with the spouse conveniently tucked away & never a part of the 'scene'. The spouse doesn't want to know & it would be a rude imposition is the story offered to the savvy is-this-person-married wonderer. It's their way of successfully doing the poly thang, claims the D-type . . .. [8|][8|][8|][8|]

The D-type in question is quite attractive, flirty, & popular, tho' major-league douche-baggy / red-flaggy on deeper inspection, for whatever all that was worth . . . . .

I guess my point being that even 'old hands' in ones local community can play games with the words, but I agree with the posters above saying, 'yeah, let's do lunch with your partner first & set some ground rules' . .. . . . . [;)]



LadyPact -> RE: For the guys needing to be "discreet"... (7/13/2010 5:47:15 AM)

I used to say the very same thing about it.  To date, clip is the only person who has been able to pass the "I need to talk to your wife first" rule.  It hasn't changed My policy any.  In fact, if anything, it's strengthened it.

I was just on another thread saying basically the same thing.  It really is the married and dishonest with the spouse folks that tend to make it harder for the people who do have the consent of their spouse.  It makes people more suspicious and it creates more hoops that we have to jump through.  Those of us who really are poly and are being honest with our significant other have to understand that.  I'd hate to even think of what the estimate is for every one of us who is being up front about this whole thing, compared to how many are not.  I have to think we are in a very small minority.



OttersSwim -> RE: For the guys needing to be "discreet"... (7/13/2010 6:12:29 AM)

I think my first line to my Lady was "Would you like to talk to my wife?  It's no problem!"  I think I may have said it even before "Hello, I'm Otter..." [;)]



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