Dommes who've taught vanilla wives

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PeonForHer -> Dommes who've taught vanilla wives (7/13/2010 7:09:52 AM)
Following from the 'guys needing to be discreet' thread . . . It seems that there's something of a consensus that if a married man turns up to see a (pro) Domme, the standard question of him is 'OK, if your wife approves, can I talk to her?'. I've just been wondering: does that ever turn into a situation where you, the Domme, ends up 'teaching' that wife 'how to dominate'? If so, has it worked?

LadyPact -> RE: Dommes who've taught vanilla wives (7/13/2010 7:33:28 AM)
It didn't work in My case at all. That really was the beginning idea when I got clip. That eventually, his wife would become interested in BDSM in some way. That she would recognize the benefits of what a Domme would bring to his life. Very frankly, it has never worked out that way. If anything, I tend to think she has submissive tendencies herself. As much as clip hangs on to the hope that something will change about it, I have never seen one positive sign that has born fruit. After all of this time, she still hasn't followed through on even attending a munch. Between clip and Myself, I tend to think that I am the one who is more supportive of her position. If she doesn't want to be something that she is not, I don't think she should have to be. She knows the invitation is always open and it's completely up to her. She has every right to be exactly who she wants to be and if that is vanilla, so be it. Where I have had luck is when I've been approached by couples where it's the *woman* who walks up to Me and says, "I want to learn to do that". When they really are interested in kink together and it's not one person pushing for it more than the other. These situations are great fun and I love being a part of it. The difference is, it really was a genuine interest on her part and not something that the female of the couple was being forced into.

DemonKia -> RE: Dommes who've taught vanilla wives (7/13/2010 7:49:49 AM)
Peon, I've kinda been chewin' on a peripheral thought to this discussion: I'm wondering how much of this, overall, is being framed by madonna-whore dichotomies in the married guys' minds .. . . . That is, that even if the wifey might possibly be potentially open to it, the guy (largely unconsciously) wants/needs the wifey to be his good, safe little madonna. & that part of what makes the various dominants sexy & exciting is that they're the designated whores that he can escape ultimately . . . . Not saying in all cases, by far, just speculating about it playing a role with some. I tend to think it would be found more in those more given to compartmentalizing their life & emotions & etc . .. . .

PeonForHer -> RE: Dommes who've taught vanilla wives (7/13/2010 7:50:01 AM)
That's sad, LP, but not really surprising, I suppose. On the one hand, there's the obvious: that if the dominant impulse isn't within a woman, nothing can be done to 'bring it out'. On the other, there may well be ten tonnes of emotional barriers against that impulse coming out even if it were to exist. But, equally, it's no surprise that if the woman herself comes forward to ask, then she can be 'taught'.

PeonForHer -> RE: Dommes who've taught vanilla wives (7/13/2010 7:56:06 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DemonKia Peon, I've kinda been chewin' on a peripheral thought to this discussion: I'm wondering how much of this, overall, is being framed by madonna-whore dichotomies in the married guys' minds .. . . . That is, that even if the wifey might possibly be potentially open to it, the guy (largely unconsciously) wants/needs the wifey to be his good, safe little madonna. & that part of what makes the various dominants sexy & exciting is that they're the designated whores that he can escape ultimately . . . . Not saying in all cases, by far, just speculating about it playing a role with some. I tend to think it would be found more in those more given to compartmentalizing their life & emotions & etc . .. . . Oh yes, that does seem plausible. Moreover, a femdom for such a man might have to fit into a special kind of category of 'uber-whore'. That is, not just a woman who's 'evil', but one who's cold, uncaring, contemptuous (etc, we all know the image) too. As for the man: if he really does have a heavy-duty, D/s version of the 'madonna/whore' sort of wiring in his head - I can't see much hope. He'll always want both, and it'll take a really fundamental change of attitude to be able to conceive of both existing in the same woman.

DemonKia -> RE: Dommes who've taught vanilla wives (7/13/2010 8:18:38 AM)
That was part of what got me thinking along that track, that the archtypal Femdom character / scenario (that clearly some men are hung up on), it reeks of madonna-whore . . . . &, as for people changing, I always go back to that lightbulb joke: how many psychiatrists / psychologists / mental health counselors does it take to change a lightbulb? Only one, but the lightbulb has to wanna change . .. . . [;)] quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer Oh yes, that does seem plausible. Moreover, a femdom for such a man might have to fit into a special kind of category of 'uber-whore'. That is, not just a woman who's 'evil', but one who's cold, uncaring, contemptuous (etc, we all know the image) too. As for the man: if he really does have a heavy-duty, D/s version of the 'madonna/whore' sort of wiring in his head - I can't see much hope. He'll always want both, and it'll take a really fundamental change of attitude to be able to conceive of both existing in the same woman.

PeonForHer -> RE: Dommes who've taught vanilla wives (7/13/2010 8:33:17 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DemonKia I always go back to that lightbulb joke: how many psychiatrists / psychologists / mental health counselors does it take to change a lightbulb? Only one, but the lightbulb has to wanna change . .. . . [;)] Heh. I remember telling that joke to my counsellor, many years ago. He was almost on the floor laughing. Seriously, if there's one, single thing that's against a man reconciling his need to see his wife as both madonna and whore - then I have a feeling that it's a deep assumption that you just can't have contradictions. I keep seeing that assumption retailed even here, on CM. Can one's wife be both saintly and devilish? I'd answer: Yup, and the more so the better! It's contradictory - but, then, so is night and day. I'd say: get used to it.

SweetDommes -> RE: Dommes who've taught vanilla wives (7/13/2010 8:38:21 AM)
I'll be honest - I have no desire to train anyone except the boys we're keeping. If they want a Domme, or someone to train their wife to be a Domme, then they need to look somewhere else. I have no problems suggesting books (mostly books that I've heard about on here) and telling them to go to local groups - and to talk to people who actually do BDSM rather than just reading porn/erotica that is completely unrealistic ... but more than that, nope, move on.

LadyPact -> RE: Dommes who've taught vanilla wives (7/13/2010 8:44:59 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer That's sad, LP, but not really surprising, I suppose. On the one hand, there's the obvious: that if the dominant impulse isn't within a woman, nothing can be done to 'bring it out'. On the other, there may well be ten tonnes of emotional barriers against that impulse coming out even if it were to exist. But, equally, it's no surprise that if the woman herself comes forward to ask, then she can be 'taught'. I don't really think it is sad, peon. Unfortunate, perhaps, but not sad. What I find more troublesome is that people want to change other people into the idea of what they want them to be. Think about that for a moment. It wasn't too long ago that I read a very good post of yours on how you could have been that husband, with the non kinky gal who wanted to marry you. Trying to change somebody into a kinky person is no better than trying to change someone who is kinky into someone who isn't. That's exactly the situation you would have been in. It really is the same concept. In both cases, the spouse is being asked to be something they really are not.

LadyHibiscus -> RE: Dommes who've taught vanilla wives (7/13/2010 10:12:08 AM)
I thought awhile, and I can list ONE entire success! Most of the credit for that goes to the husband, who worked hard to get over the rough spots and keep at it. He doesn't have a dominant wife, but he does have a sadistic toppy one, and that works. They're both great people, super fun to play with and hang out with. That's pretty good, right?

PeonForHer -> RE: Dommes who've taught vanilla wives (7/13/2010 3:26:45 PM)
It doesn't work to try to change someone into who they're not, LP - the only chances one has, I think, are a) to bring out something that's locked up inside and b) change perceptions. Nowadays, years after splitting up with various vanilla girlfriends, I often ponder on the 'latent dominance' that at least a few of them might have had. The trouble is, I didn't encourage it - and, in fact, probably helped to keep it suppressed - because it didn't 'fit' with my fantasy of dominance back then. That fantasy was much narrower than it is now. Back in my early twenties I was absolutely one of the 'do-mes' and 'one-kink-ponies' that Dommes pile in on whenever they appear on this board. But, now, were I to be the husband of a vanilla wife . . . oh yes, I'd give that 'teaching' a try. Re Lady Hib's example - yep, I think I could get by with a bit sadistic-toppyness, if I loved a woman. Even more so, I could get by with a bit of 'service-sub' stuff. In other words, for me, the b) factor, above-mentioned, could resolve the problem, largely on its own. However, in saying all that - the basic truth is that (despite that earlier post of mine that you mention - and thanks for the compliment!), I don't think I'd ever have married any woman who was entirely kink-less, anyway. Really straight women have always given me the shudders.

ourmsbetty -> RE: Dommes who've taught vanilla wives (7/13/2010 3:52:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer Following from the 'guys needing to be discreet' thread . . . It seems that there's something of a consensus that if a married man turns up to see a (pro) Domme, the standard question of him is 'OK, if your wife approves, can I talk to her?'. I've just been wondering: does that ever turn into a situation where you, the Domme, ends up 'teaching' that wife 'how to dominate'? If so, has it worked? I've had it work, kind of, but only if she was already interested in learning herself. Mostly it's been cases of the two of them approaching me together and saying "we want to do this, but we don't know how" who have been the most successful. Even then though, most of the wives seem to opt out of active participation. But every now and then one shines, at least a little. Ms. Betty

LadyHibiscus -> RE: Dommes who've taught vanilla wives (7/13/2010 5:33:06 PM)
I think of looking for a vanilla mate every year or so... and wake up to reality pretty damn quickly. I have NEVER been a mainstream kind of person, why even try to start now?

DemonKia -> RE: Dommes who've taught vanilla wives (7/14/2010 3:20:36 AM)
lol I was feelin' lazy & didn't want to have to retype out something on this topic & voila, I found it somewhere else. To wit: I tend to think people have an innate predeliction for dichotomizing, for turning things into polarities & picking a side. I tend to suspect that it's part of our various propensities to simplify thinking. Which, ya know, makes sense. It's not like seeking after complexity is the easier road, lol . .. & reasonably succinct, too, for me . .. . . [;)] quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer ...deep assumption that you just can't have contradictions. I keep seeing that assumption retailed even here, on CM....

ourmsbetty -> RE: Dommes who've taught vanilla wives (7/14/2010 4:52:53 AM)
Just a general thought here along the same lines as the topic... When I was younger the things I wanted from/in a submissive where very different from the things I wanted in a husband/mate. I knew I was Dominant, I knew I wanted that dynamic in my life but it was not the dynamic I wanted in my primary relationship. This was a conscious choice on my part. I do not know if that will change now, it is possible it may but also possible it may not. As important as being able to participate in BDSM is to me there are still a couple of things that take priority over it. For example, I would still rather have someone vanilla and poly minded than someone submissive and non-poly. I would rather have someone I am compatible with spiritually than someone I had good scene chemistry with. I do believe it is possible to find all of these things in one person, but I do not have to have them all in one to find the relationship worthwhile. So perhaps sometimes it is not so much believing the two (kink and marital bliss) cannot exist in the same person as it is happening to find someone and deciding what they have to offer is more important than what they don't. Ms. Betty

LadyHibiscus -> RE: Dommes who've taught vanilla wives (7/14/2010 11:53:53 AM)
I have never wanted a submissive mate. I have always been happiest with other dominants, or with kink-friendly regular folks. I need PARITY in my personal relationships, even though I am large and in charge pretty much all the time. I also need to have a masochist. Yay for poly, right? So perhaps sometimes it is not so much believing the two (kink and marital bliss) cannot exist in the same person as it is happening to find someone and deciding what they have to offer is more important than what they don't. Ms. Betty This. AND knowing what you really need and cannot live without.

Lucienne -> RE: Dommes who've taught vanilla wives (7/14/2010 5:48:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer That's sad, LP, but not really surprising, I suppose. I don't really think it is sad, peon. Unfortunate, perhaps, but not sad. If I may be so brazen as to piggy back on this exchange, I didn't think it was sad. We can't always be the perfect match that we want to be and it seems to me that the open and respectful relations between LP, clip and Mrs. clip are enviable in terms of people maintaining the relationships that matter along with the individual strands of satisfaction that matter. But then I am a total LP fangirl. My kinks aren't in the same place, but as far as I can tell she is very good people by every measure that has proven to matter in my experience in life. {I will now retreat to my cocktail in shame having made such a naked display of admiration and respectfully request that you all avert your eyes.}

LadyPact -> RE: Dommes who've taught vanilla wives (7/14/2010 9:24:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lucienne If I may be so brazen as to piggy back on this exchange, I didn't think it was sad. We can't always be the perfect match that we want to be and it seems to me that the open and respectful relations between LP, clip and Mrs. clip are enviable in terms of people maintaining the relationships that matter along with the individual strands of satisfaction that matter. But then I am a total LP fangirl. My kinks aren't in the same place, but as far as I can tell she is very good people by every measure that has proven to matter in my experience in life. {I will now retreat to my cocktail in shame having made such a naked display of admiration and respectfully request that you all avert your eyes.} I want you to know that I appreciated every word that you said. Thank you very much.

SaintAllie -> RE: Dommes who've taught vanilla wives (7/15/2010 2:27:15 AM)
short reply again.. not responding to all responses. How about just accepting that what she enjoys is all you need to know? IF not.. just don't get involved? Does she need to be taught? Allie

PeonForHer -> RE: Dommes who've taught vanilla wives (7/15/2010 3:10:33 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact I don't really think it is sad, peon. Unfortunate, perhaps, but not sad. 'Unfortunate' is as good a word as 'sad', LP. And Lucienne spoke some pretty accurate words there herself. [;)]

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