RE: Who punishes the dominant?

RE: Who punishes the dominant? (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion

Message

Kana -> RE: Who punishes the dominant? (7/15/2010 5:21:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MagiksSlave quote: ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW quote: ORIGINAL: MagiksSlave quote: ORIGINAL: Kana "Who punishes the dominant?" IDK about anyone else, but I have this pesky little thing called a conscience... And subs don't?? This is a "logic-wreck"... there was -never- any implication that individuals who yield authority do not have a conscience. However, those who choose to participate in relationships where punishment is part of the dynamic DO yield the "right of correction" to the individual to whom they yield authority.... so whether or not they have a conscience, they will still be required to answer to that authority. That being said, for most individuals who HOLD the authority, they are the sole "disciplinarian" for themselves, and THAT is the point Kana was making when he answered the OP by declaring that -his own conscience- was the "disciplinary factor" for his mistakes. Implying that stating such (which is accurate) is somehow a slam against submissive individuals and that it implies that he believes that submissive individuals don't have a conscience is a straw man argument and has no place in reasonable debate on the subject. Calla What I am getting at is, if having a conscience is good enough for the Dom, why isnt it for the sub, why does the sub have to be subjected to punishment other than that? It's my own thing, I know people like it, I just dont find it necessery. Hey. No one ever said slavery was fair. I'm gonna use the word consequences cuz I'm not so fond of punishment. Consequences may or may not be needed, but it's the way our dynamic works. It's the way I want it, it's how she wants it (Uhhhh-that's part of why she chose to surrender to me). She likes, wants, needs, craves to be held accountable, I like to hold people accountable (and I do this in pretty much all areas of my life-ask her-I can be an SOB when I wanna). She likes the structure, the discipline. I like control. Hence I would say that while we engage in BDSM, what our relationship is centered around is an extreme D/S dynamic with all the other activities being branches that stem from that main trunk. Now, a few side thoughts. I don't quite understand what the whole fucking focus is on punishment around here. If I have had a slave for an extended period of time and she's not behaving, it means either she is approaching things from a bad head space or attitude, which usually results in adios, or I am doing something wrong. Consequences aren't fun, for me or for her. I don't like to have to give em, and she most certainly doesn't like to get em and in sooth, I rarely have to resort to such measures. Why? Because she's a terrific slave. Finding fault with her performance is like finding flaws in Michelangelo's Pieta. And that's saying something because I am a persnickety bitch. In five years, I bet she's gotten less than fifty strokes as a consequence. I'd like to puff my chest out and say I had a whole lot to do with that (and I did in that I chose well but that's about it) but that would be so much BS. She's a great slave, in many ways less because of what she does, in and out of shackles, but more because of the attitude she has and her mentality. She likes to serve and frankly, most slaves I've met hate punishment. There is not a damn thing they like about it. It's awful, miserable and a horrendous experience. Not because of the physical consequences, but because of the emotive and internal costs and anyone who thinks otherwise is deluded.

hereyesruponyou -> RE: Who punishes the dominant? (7/15/2010 5:27:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NymphetamineGirl Often, he has already forgiven me, but I need a punishment to help me forgive myself, let go, move on. He does not do this because he likes to, but to help me get past it. This is never something I am told to subject to, rather it is consentual, and I am grateful for it. This is because I have the character defect of beating myself up, not because of my position as a sub. This is exactly the point I was going to bring up. I have known many subs who are harder on themselves than any dominant could be, because YES they have a conscience and have to look at themselves in the mirror, and often their self image is tied up in the way they please their dominant. It is actually easier for some people to move on after a specific punishment is given. It is a way to get closure and know that the incident is over and done with. If your sub benefits from this type of interaction, then you are actually doing more to meet their needs than your own. Punishment isn't a turn on for me in any manner, sexual or dominance, but I know when it is necessary for someone else and therefore use it then to help them.

sexyred1 -> RE: Who punishes the dominant? (7/15/2010 5:39:23 PM)
These punishment threads are interesting to me. My own dynamic is not about being punished for real. It is for fun and its hot. On the other hand, if someone in my life, on any level, including a Dominant screws up with me, I open my mouth and we discuss it, communicate and try to compromise a solution. If someone in my life on any level, including a Dominant continues to screw up and refuses to discuss, communicate or compromise a solution, then I am likely to leave the situation. I would imagine that losing someone you want is punishment enough for a Dominant or a submissive.

porcelaine -> RE: Who punishes the dominant? (7/15/2010 6:22:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kana Now, a few side thoughts. I don't quite understand what the whole fucking focus is on punishment around here. If I have had a slave for an extended period of time and she's not behaving, it means either she is approaching things from a bad head space or attitude, which usually results in adios, or I am doing something wrong. Consequences aren't fun, for me or for her. I don't like to have to give em, and she most certainly doesn't like to get em and in sooth, I rarely have to resort to such measures. Why? Because she's a terrific slave. Finding fault with her performance is like finding flaws in Michelangelo's Pieta. And that's saying something because I am a persnickety bitch. In five years, I bet she's gotten less than fifty strokes as a consequence. I'd like to puff my chest out and say I had a whole lot to do with that (and I did in that I chose well but that's about it) but that would be so much BS. She's a great slave, in many ways less because of what she does, in and out of shackles, but more because of the attitude she has and her mentality. She likes to serve and frankly, most slaves I've met hate punishment. There is not a damn thing they like about it. It's awful, miserable and a horrendous experience. Not because of the physical consequences, but because of the emotive and internal costs and anyone who thinks otherwise is deluded. Kana, I know we've rolled this topic around a time or two. The highlighted portions get to the meat of how I see things. If my owner needs to punish me something is off. Way off. Now whether that stems from my end or his, it needs to be addressed and I cannot say that punishment is always the solution. I think you know my personal feelings on this quite well. I agree that attitude and mentality play a huge part in all of this. My previous partner often articulated that he knew I tried and was well aware that I was working my buns off to be what he wanted without question. Mistakes will happen. But in the grand scheme of things my behavior was more adherent to his will than it ever was in opposition. I'm glad you weighed in on this. I think the alternate perspective was helpful for those that have struggled with the subject. ~porcelaine

Aynne88 -> RE: Who punishes the dominant? (7/15/2010 6:38:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: whitekat So there's various threads about 'how should I punish her for X' and 'What's the worst punishment you've gotten' but what I want to know is who punishes the dominant for their infractions? I realize most people aren't like this, but I've been involved with various groups for several years, and one of the negative things I've noticed is the arrogance of dominants then they 'punish' submissive or slaves, while turning around and making mistakes themselves. Who corrects their bad behaviors? Or are we left to just deal with their stupidity or selfishness. Is the fact that they have such a difficult time finding and keeping partners punishment enough? Or does that not work, since most never realize why they're alone? Well, I didn't read any responses yet, so forgive me if this is redundant, but first of all I wouldn't be with someone that was so frigging stupid that they made a lot of bad behavior decisions and I certainly am not the type of woman to be quiet if he did. My guy respects my opinion and if I tell him I think he is making a mistake, he takes that into consideration. I would not be with someone so arrogant that I could not voice my thoughts when I saw him being less than correct. Fortunately that is not often, and I say it with respect, but I would do that for a friend or anyone else as well.

AQuietSimpleMan -> RE: Who punishes the dominant? (7/15/2010 6:40:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aynne88 quote: ORIGINAL: whitekat So there's various threads about 'how should I punish her for X' and 'What's the worst punishment you've gotten' but what I want to know is who punishes the dominant for their infractions? I realize most people aren't like this, but I've been involved with various groups for several years, and one of the negative things I've noticed is the arrogance of dominants then they 'punish' submissive or slaves, while turning around and making mistakes themselves. Who corrects their bad behaviors? Or are we left to just deal with their stupidity or selfishness. Is the fact that they have such a difficult time finding and keeping partners punishment enough? Or does that not work, since most never realize why they're alone? Well, I didn't read any responses yet, so forgive me if this is redundant, but first of all I wouldn't be with someone that was so frigging stupid that they made a lot of bad behavior decisions and I certainly am not the type of woman to be quiet if he did. My guy respects my opinion and if I tell him I think he is making a mistake, he takes that into consideration. I would not be with someone so arrogant that I could not voice my thoughts when I saw him being less than correct. Fortunately that is not often, and I say it with respect, but I would do that for a friend or anyone else as well. THIS.... Even if I had a punishment Dynamic..... why would I want to be with someone who kept fucking up? LOL QSM

Icarys -> RE: Who punishes the dominant? (7/15/2010 8:18:58 PM)
quote: why would I want to be with someone who kept fucking up? We use general statements like this and I always wonder..If we can't seem to agree on what anything is why would we think we're on the same page for what "fucking up" is either? Do you mean constantly having accident's or willful mistakes? I had a guy working for me at one time who was 68 years old..Before him went 15 or so much younger people and most of them couldn't do what I considered to be an extremely easy task(The older guy had a problem as well for a good while). For whatever reason they just had trouble following my instructions.If it hadn't been for his other good qualities as a worker I might had fired him too.(Always on time..Excellent attitude) This guy made a lot of mistakes but he did try his best with a smile on his face..That was really one of the major reason for keeping him. A lot of people say they try..Say they put their everything into it but most are just giving lip-service. Doing enough to get by..It's visible in almost everything I see. The two things I've learned and have tried to remember from my time working with him was you have to give people a real chance and just because I think something is easy doesn't mean it really is for others. I am a hardass at times but only with those who I think aren't trying.[:D] Hopefully that story made sense lol..I've had a couple of beers :>

AQuietSimpleMan -> RE: Who punishes the dominant? (7/15/2010 8:28:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Icarys quote: why would I want to be with someone who kept fucking up? <Snip> Do you mean constantly having accident's or willful mistakes? <Snip> The two things I've learned and have tried to remember from my time working with him was you have to give people a real chance and just because I think something is easy doesn't mean it really is for others. <Snip> And this is where the work of "What does a Dom really Do..." comes in. I will sit down and work with any sub, one of the reasons I do not have a Punishment Dynamic is because I believe I have no right to be upset unless I know for certain that she just didn't care, If she cannot finish a task in the time I want it done I want to learn why... is it because she is having issues with the task, or is it because she is Procrastinating for the entire day and waiting till the last minute. I will sit down and work with a girl hand in hand until I know she knows how to do what is expected of her. I will explain how making a call for clearification is better than wasting half an hour second guessing yourself, and teaching them that I am there to help them, I do not expect them to just know. For the first Year I taught andi how to do many of the things that her family never did. I taught her how Laundry got done, why we seperate colors and Hues, What Starch is for and why we use it. During that time I did all these things myself... I do not mind doing these things myself, but if she wants to be helpful and make my life somewhat easier when I am busy she can do these things and remove them from my plate. Teaching them how to me MINE is a long and slow job. QSM

yellowroses -> RE: Who punishes the dominant? (7/15/2010 8:37:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Rogue886 Well as far as I am concerned if I make mistakes then I hope My girl would tell Me. As a lot of ppl on these boards have said before it comes down to communication & respect. I freely admit I am nowhere near perfect, & therefrore have & will make mistakes. And personally I`d rather know what My mistakes were so I can try to avoid making them again. I will just bet that you are closer to perfect then you think since you are willing to admit that you are not perfect.

Icarys -> RE: Who punishes the dominant? (7/15/2010 9:03:18 PM)
quote: I will sit down and work with any sub, one of the reasons I do not have a Punishment Dynamic is because I believe I have no right to be upset unless I know for certain that she just didn't care, If she cannot finish a task in the time I want it done I want to learn why... is it because she is having issues with the task, or is it because she is Procrastinating for the entire day and waiting till the last minute. The thing is..We have what I also have stated earlier and what others have said. Some couples just apologize in this way yet I will agree..there are tons of variables that need to be taken into consideration before something is handed out. Just so you know..I worked with that guy for 3 months before he finally started to get the routine down..If I were to show you what it was you'd probably roll over laughing but he wasn't alone in it..Not a single person did it without an enormous amount of time and trouble and to me it seems to this day to be the easiest thing to learn(shrugs)

jujubeeMB -> RE: Who punishes the dominant? (7/15/2010 9:53:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sexyred1 These punishment threads are interesting to me. My own dynamic is not about being punished for real. It is for fun and its hot. On the other hand, if someone in my life, on any level, including a Dominant screws up with me, I open my mouth and we discuss it, communicate and try to compromise a solution. If someone in my life on any level, including a Dominant continues to screw up and refuses to discuss, communicate or compromise a solution, then I am likely to leave the situation. What's the point of posting my opinion when you've already said it so well? [:)]

Chrisincuffs -> RE: Who punishes the dominant? (7/15/2010 9:57:19 PM)
I slave is only as good as their Master. If Master is a fuck up the slave isn't going to be completely obedient

ExSteelAgain -> RE: Who punishes the dominant? (7/15/2010 10:10:23 PM)
The best punishment is to not do anything to her. I once made her lay over my lap nude and touched her with the flogger, quirt, slapper and so on while reminding her she wouldn't feel any of them in earnest action. Then I left. She later told me she kept thinking I would come back and use the toys on her. She was wrong.

IronBear -> RE: Who punishes the dominant? (7/16/2010 12:33:51 AM)
~ FR ~ Just a tad pushed time wise to peruse the replies thus far. Marc, I like the question and I believe it to both most valid and timely for I do believe some at the very least of the newer folk may believe that Dominants of any form, are untouchable and above punishment. Thus I would respond with the following: The first person to punish an errant Dominant is him or herself (assuming he or she is aware of their misdeeds and other general screw-ups). My tag line states it rather emphatically I think.. The second person to punish the Dominant, albeit possibly indirectly, is his or her submissive or slave by the loss of trust and or respect and even in some cases the stated desire to leave the relationship. Of course if the Dominant is truly remorseful and wishes to make amends (possibly of something he or she has inadvertently done due to lack of knowledge or experience or through haste), this need not necessarily happen especially if she is in a position to help him learn and evolve. The third person/s to punish the Dominant is his peer group, provided that he recognises them and is willing to take to heart their admonitions and suggestions. I think off the top of my grey head this all I can think of at this time. No doubt I will think of more or others have or will post more.

reynardfox -> RE: Who punishes the dominant? (7/16/2010 12:40:07 AM)
this is because the "how should I punish her" posters are not actually dominants, - they are wankers. Dominant men do not write shit like that, they are too busy.

ranja -> RE: Who punishes the dominant? (7/16/2010 2:30:18 AM)
There is no way i could 'correct' my Husbands behaviour with a smack or pinch or a whack with a ruler... i would be in serious trouble if i took that liberty, eventhough it works wonders for me personally. He seems to have more self discipline about the little things than i do so there is no need for 'corrective' stuff... however since He is the one in charge...it is only normal (i think) that He has made a few big mistakes over the years... i find it difficult to deal with He does not like to admit He did wrong... i think this is normal for proud dominant men... i can see He might have trouble or be ashamed but He will be reluctant to talk about things... He is not a 'talker' at all... so it is tricky to get things right again... i have felt like some kind of parasite trying to find a way in... once He lets me in we get it sorted. I might not slap Him with a ruler, but it must feel somewhat the same... having this musquito buzzing around Him trying to sting here and there untill it manages to draw blood.

lally2 -> RE: Who punishes the dominant? (7/16/2010 3:12:25 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MagiksSlave quote: ORIGINAL: Kana "Who punishes the dominant?" IDK about anyone else, but I have this pesky little thing called a conscience... And subs don't?? i think that some subs come from a slightly different angle. since their entire purpose in life is to be pleasing and give pleasure to their partner, when that doesnt happen it isnt just a conscience that wacks them sideways internally, its the whole thing of having failed in their purpose. if a Dominant gets something wrong they can appologise, make the necessary adjustment and put things back but a sub doesnt have that facility always, they cant reajust what they did wrong, its still there hanging in the air to them, they can apologise, but its still hanging in the air. small example would be - dominant repeatedly tells sub that right now hes very busy, stretched to capacity and needs to focus on stuff other than her. she continues to feel insecure and continues to ask him why he hasnt made contact. he repeats the affirmation calmly and she sits back feeling bad that she'd harrassed him when he really wasnt able to deal with her needs right then. the thing is she can apologise but her need to make it up to him somehow, just doesnt go away. she cant take back what she did even when the Dominant has moved on and forgotten her wobble. for me anyway, it isnt so cut and dried as i apologise and all is forgiven and forgotten, i will continue to feel bad that i didnt trust in that situation. im not saying any of that would call for punishment, but it is just a small moment between two complex people that could occur and the sub might well internalise far more than a dominant might.

porcelaine -> RE: Who punishes the dominant? (7/16/2010 6:11:44 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lally2 if a Dominant gets something wrong they can appologise, make the necessary adjustment and put things back but a sub doesnt have that facility always, they cant reajust what they did wrong, its still there hanging in the air to them, they can apologise, but its still hanging in the air. small example would be - dominant repeatedly tells sub that right now hes very busy, stretched to capacity and needs to focus on stuff other than her. she continues to feel insecure and continues to ask him why he hasnt made contact. he repeats the affirmation calmly and she sits back feeling bad that she'd harrassed him when he really wasnt able to deal with her needs right then. the thing is she can apologise but her need to make it up to him somehow, just doesnt go away. she cant take back what she did even when the Dominant has moved on and forgotten her wobble. Some people also have a thing with beating themselves up and you see it in other areas of their lives. They're always the bad guy. I think if you're dealing with that personality it's a bit more challenging. But in terms of your example I'd take a different line. Assuming he knows the other party I'd wonder why he didn't articulate his unavailability for whatever duration it would entail. She entertains herself in another way since she knows he can't be disturbed, he maintains his focus, and the whole thing is avoided. The concept of anticipatory service on her end is nicely tied with proactive leadership on his. Send her to the spa and it's all good. ~porcelaine

crazyml -> RE: Who punishes the dominant? (7/16/2010 6:40:41 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Focus50 quote: ORIGINAL: whitekat So there's various threads about 'how should I punish her for X' and 'What's the worst punishment you've gotten' but what I want to know is who punishes the dominant for their infractions? I realize most people aren't like this, but I've been involved with various groups for several years, and one of the negative things I've noticed is the arrogance of dominants then they 'punish' submissive or slaves, while turning around and making mistakes themselves. Who corrects their bad behaviors? Or are we left to just deal with their stupidity or selfishness. Is the fact that they have such a difficult time finding and keeping partners punishment enough? Or does that not work, since most never realize why they're alone? What a strange question... lol When the girl screws up, she has to deal with me. But when I screw up, I've got the toughest taskmaster of all to appease. There's no escape; he waits patiently for me in every mirror. It's not a physical reflection so much as a reflection of my conscience, personal standards and sense of justice. There's no bullshitting that fella.... And getting rid of all mirrors won't work either, 'cause then he won't let me sleep. Pfffft, at worst the girl only gets half an hour in the corner...! Focus. Yet another example of proper quality from Focus. Rocking response Mr F.

crazyml -> RE: Who punishes the dominant? (7/16/2010 6:48:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CaringandReal I'm a little shell shocked by what you just said, because I know how two dominant friends of mine would react if a submissive did that to them. Two very different men with two very different approaches, but one result: the formerly frozen sub would be close to catatonic at the end of each treatment. I'm a little shell shocked by what you just said... unless I misunderstand what you're implying by "close to catatonic at the end of each treatment". If the implication is that if a sub froze in the context of the dominant doing something wrong, crossing some line, or causing concern then the consequences would be a punishment of such violence that the sub would be close to catatonic at the end then I can tell you that the doms in question are dangerous, fuckwitted, asshats. But, I'm sure that can't be what you actually meant... can it?

Page: << < prev 1 2 3 [4] 5 next > >>

Collarchat.com © 2025

Terms of Service

0.046875