RE: On-line relationships. What is the deal? (Full Version)

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LadyHibiscus -> RE: On-line relationships. What is the deal? (7/16/2010 1:38:33 PM)

~my post was eaten by my blackberry~

I am going to disagree with Chrissy when she says that no one is harmed by the online-only relationships. While it's true that there is no physical contact, the emotions can be all too real. Heartbreak is heartbreak, even when it's generated by an online fantasy. A friend of mine slept alone whilst her husband cybered away---and vehemently denied it, of course. Was he "cheating"? He didn't think so. I have spoken to too many people who have gotten burned by online-only to say it's just a nice little pastime.

Personally, I can't imagine anything more unsatisfactory over the long run. I have started relationships via snail mail (good times! [:)]) and the internet, but with the full intention of making it realtime ASAP. I'm not a LARPer or WOW player, so role play holds no allure.



Syrox -> RE: On-line relationships. What is the deal? (7/16/2010 1:41:15 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

I have no experience with Second Life.  I'm a WOW player.  [8D]


Well you just shot up in my estimation by a whole bunch.

I tried Second Life.. I just couldnt get my head around the place at all even though i stuck with it for nearly a month (which by the way was during one of my breaks from playing WoW).

Comradeship and a replacement life I DO understand.  for a while I was hopelessly addicted to WoW (World of Warcraft for those who don't know).  for a long while my guild became an extension of my family (and often a replacement for particular members).

So I do understand that the on-line world can be as real as the real world.. sometimes even more so, but what we talk about here is  a relationship between two individuals.  although I hear it does happen on Second life. I can;'t quite see it being for me.  That doesnt mean it isnt for others. I am kinda wanting to learn via proxy in a way i suppose.



AAkasha -> RE: On-line relationships. What is the deal? (7/16/2010 1:51:36 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Syrox

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

I have no experience with Second Life.  I'm a WOW player.  [8D]


Well you just shot up in my estimation by a whole bunch.

I tried Second Life.. I just couldnt get my head around the place at all even though i stuck with it for nearly a month (which by the way was during one of my breaks from playing WoW).

Comradeship and a replacement life I DO understand.  for a while I was hopelessly addicted to WoW (World of Warcraft for those who don't know).  for a long while my guild became an extension of my family (and often a replacement for particular members).

So I do understand that the on-line world can be as real as the real world.. sometimes even more so, but what we talk about here is  a relationship between two individuals.  although I hear it does happen on Second life. I can;'t quite see it being for me.  That doesnt mean it isnt for others. I am kinda wanting to learn via proxy in a way i suppose.



I started a femdom guild and the man who was initially (tongue in cheek) my "wow bitch" became my "online slave" and then became my "real life" slave (in the flesh).  The femdom guild is an awesome concept because it allows likeminded people to get involved in an activity together in a casual setting and then chemistry happens.  Whether you intend it or not.  There were many "hookups" in the guild.

But I digress.

I have a lot of online experience with female domination.  It's NOT a replacement for real life S&M or BDSM (which I need to be doing actively -- all the time, in the flesh).  It's a very nice supplement. It's a nice *BDSM MUSE* -- I get many ideas for real life things, I get aroused by online play (read: wet), I get 'fired up' over emails and exchanges and that trickles into my real life BDSM barometer - how turned on I am, how much S&M I need. 

I also would clarify that I am very, very, VERY rarely interested in text online exchanges; but in today's world, visuals are so damned easy.  Visuals make it work for me. I need pictures. I need video.  I need audio also - I need to hear breathing.  I have really gotten into Skype lately and am blown away by the functionality and quality -- live video and audio and text all at once.  Is this "online play"?  Sure.  But it's also a far cry from emailed instructions and emailed "reports" -- which have their place also.

The other thing is that I am a person who loves words.  I love using them and reading them (in some contexts; I'm pretty specific about what I like to read and pretty lazy, I admit). So if I am exchanging words about BDSM with someone, and he's eloquent, and he 'gets me' -- well damn, he can get me very, very aroused.  BDSM is pretty cerebral for me, in many ways.  I have always been a big fan of the written word. Pre-Internet, I was passing notes in class. I was *making* boyfriends journal for me and a requirement was a hand written note every time we saw each other.  The notes were on topics I gave them.  I loved making them write about helplessness, being in bondage, feelings of fear.  I would read those things and they would arouse me.  Did it replace real life fondling, kissing, caressing? Hell no.  But it was GREAT foreplay!

Combining all these things, online bdsm works for me, in some contexts.  But I have to know the man is also being honest (pictures and direct voice communication help) -- and the biggest drawback is many men who 'give good online' are also horrifically flaky.  The here today, gone tomorrow, back here today again, groveling today, then gone tomorrow....yechh. 

Still, I give online bdsm a thumbs up.  But I also am a big consumer of BDSM porn (as in, I pay for it) -- so I am willing to invest a lot in fantasy, visuals, etc.  It's not a replacement for the wonderful warm fuzzies of my real life bdsm, but it's good fun.

Akasha



PeanutTigerinBox -> RE: On-line relationships. What is the deal? (7/16/2010 1:54:32 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Syrox

To be honest I think it could easily apply to any on your list but specificly I am speaking of generally people who have never met.. most likely as a result of a site like CM.    The scenario I was thinking along the lines of is a sub/slave being dominated on line. being set takss etc.. perhaps some cyber play.

It isn't something i have personally ever indulged in as I quite frankly can't see the point. so any detailed description is near impossible.



Cant help you on that one as I had guys trying to dominate me online just to realise that I am not having any of it...so if they can't wait until I would meet them in person then they aren't someone I waste my time with.



taken2010 -> RE: On-line relationships. What is the deal? (7/16/2010 1:54:58 PM)

I think there are many reasons for online relationships. For some it is a safe venue for experimenting and seeing if this is something they would like to continue to learn/pursue. Some people due to location may not have much available to them as far as munches and play parties and such things where they may feel safe to explore. For others, it is just due to life situations and that the person that means the world to them is not right next door. From my experience, it isn't easy but it can and does happen.



Inthewoods -> RE: On-line relationships. What is the deal? (7/16/2010 1:57:57 PM)

Amomgst the pictures in my profile is one of my tears. Those tears were prompted purely by an online scene - the intensity of our connection (via video, not just typed words) moved me that much. That intnsity had been built up over an extended period of time with many many exchanges.  My first experiences were in 1997 via chat rooms and then moving into email. I guess because I am willing to do it for real in the virual realm, I experience it intensely.  Like in rl - you either commit or you don't commit (and I mean that in the same way that an actor commits to the part rather than in the "being collared" way)

However for me, rl beats online every time - so an online relationship that means anything for me will always hold an element of expectation of a meeting in the future



sweetsub1957 -> RE: On-line relationships. What is the deal? (7/16/2010 2:41:07 PM)

So when You're referring to people who have never met, do You mean people who never plan on meeting, or people who do plan on meeting a.s.a.p. but just haven't yet? Because there are people who've met via an online personals service such as this one who just haven't met yet because of distance.

i would never start an online relationship if i weren't planning to meet the Man sometime in the future. i would, however, if there were definite plans to meet somewhere down the road. In fact, i'm involved with Someone right now that i plan on meeting this fall/winter & if all goes well, i will be moving to be with Him. i haven't met Him yet because i am saving up for the trip.....

~sweetsub~



tiggerspoohbear -> RE: On-line relationships. What is the deal? (7/16/2010 2:47:15 PM)

I'm involved in an online relationship at the moment. The reason? Distance. We will be meeting in r/l. It is a real relationship to both of us. I sometimes find it easier to admit things o/l than in r/l. Why? Because I'm a cryer and can't always get out what I'm trying to say. The emotions are real, the feelings are there for both of us. We want a commitment to each other and it will happen. We've both agreed on that. It's not fake, it's as real as can be.

Now having said that, I was previously involved in another o/l relationship, again, distance. We met finally for 5 wonderful days but after that he decided, without telling me, that he "couldn't meet my needs". He didn't even have the guts to tell me himself and not even right away. Just stopped chatting with me one day. It took 4 months to find out why I'd been "given up" for lack of better words.

I've been much more careful in who I communicate with now. My new Man and I were friends first, and it lasted quite a while. Almost a month and only thru cmail. I no longer give out my yahoo ID or my MSN. We've now been together for over 3 months and plan to continue and build on what we've started. Real life is going to be rock our world. Can't waiit to meet my Mister Hunny Man in person and continue what we started online. We've both pledged honesty, trust and that we're meant for each other. We're both old enough to realize the mistakes we've made and don't want to repeat them again.

'Nuff said.



DesFIP -> RE: On-line relationships. What is the deal? (7/16/2010 3:03:38 PM)

Because the most important sex organ is the brain, not the genitals. And we would rather spend time online with someone who we do have that connection with than real time playing with someone who doesn't touch our mind, only our bodies.

People have used text media to connect for the last couple of hundred years. Robert Browning and Elizabeth Barrett Browning met only a few times before they wed. Their courtship was conducted by letters. Mail order brides to men in the American West also met via letters. Did every couple that wrote end up meeting? Hell no, many women chickened out and couldn't face travelling alone to a strange place with no guarantee the man she had been writing to would meet her. Many men chickened out and left women standing at a stagecoach depot alone also. None of which stopped others from using the same medium in an effort to find a connection.



Apocalypso -> RE: On-line relationships. What is the deal? (7/16/2010 3:54:46 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527
I've been studying mixed reality worlds for years now in a more than passing way. My most current understanding of why it would be pointless to you and not to myself or my online slave has to do with how well people identify with the virtual environment presented. For reasons that I suspect are very complicated, people like me get into a world like SecondLife and it's just another place to us. The other "people" we meet are people to us. The whole experience is not much different than meeting strangers at the local mall.

It's a topic that fascinates me as well.  When you interact with people on Second Life (which I don't really know), would you say you do so as yourself, as specific aspects of yourself or do you do so as an entirely fictional persona?

quote:

Now I'm trying to understand why some people identify so well and others do not. I've gone through a lot of obvious things like age, generation, gender, technical background, etc. and I've yet to see any trends. The answer may simply be "it's complicated".
This won't apply to everyone (it's a suggested trend, not a hard and fast rule), but I strongly suspect that subculture plays a role: as an old cyberpunk, you'd expect me to be more sympathetic to the idea that virtual worlds are a form of alternate reality than a lot of other people on here.

Obvious factors would be how central the Internet is to someone's life (geeks) and how much they already know and enjoy the feeling of playing a role (SCAers).  And, when those two issues combine (online RPGers), I think that's likely to have a much higher proportion of online relationshis than the statistical norm.



Syrox -> RE: On-line relationships. What is the deal? (7/16/2010 4:36:40 PM)

Well. this is a tough story to tell as it involves a very good friend of mine in a round about way to the original question.  Through WoW she has been in an online relationship for the past 3 years..  That relationship ended recently and I amongst others held her up for a while because although they had never met, the emotional attachment was THAT strong so I know it cN Hppen. but they were a nilla relationship for all I know.

I suppose where i am struggling to "Get" this is how the BDSM aspects could work in something like that.

this has kinda taken on a life of it's own. which is kinda what I wanted because I am enjoying reading the replies and learning a lot I didn't understand before about it.



xxblushesxx -> RE: On-line relationships. What is the deal? (7/16/2010 4:42:05 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

~my post was eaten by my blackberry~

I am going to disagree with Chrissy when she says that no one is harmed by the online-only relationships. While it's true that there is no physical contact, the emotions can be all too real. Heartbreak is heartbreak, even when it's generated by an online fantasy. A friend of mine slept alone whilst her husband cybered away---and vehemently denied it, of course. Was he "cheating"? He didn't think so. I have spoken to too many people who have gotten burned by online-only to say it's just a nice little pastime.


I agree with this. At the time I answered, I was answering as if the only people involved were the two people cybering. That was what I thought the question was addressing.

If someone is involved with another and cybering, that is a totally different story.



Syrox -> RE: On-line relationships. What is the deal? (7/16/2010 5:06:52 PM)

Lady H.. I agree totally as all of the parties involved are not consenting.. thats a totally different kettle of fish and a multi post thread all on it's own!  What i am talking about is two consenting adults, single and free to make their own choices.

Unfortunatly as it was really initially a generalised question of something i didn't understand it has to br treat as a general question of a concept or an idea. sorry for the vagueness. it was intentional as i like it when ideas are not too constrained.





camille65 -> RE: On-line relationships. What is the deal? (7/16/2010 5:26:35 PM)

I met my Owner in a chat room, neither of us had any intention of it becoming real or of us even meeting. Fairly easy assumption since we lived 1800 miles apart. I was online because I needed a friend, that friend turned out to be a dominant man who changed my life.

My brain is very word oriented and I'm verbally expressive in the written form so cybersex was both easy as well as something I was really good at (to my surprise lol). There was a certain amount of offline control that came from our online play, it started very small (basically he told me to stop neglecting my health and minor things) but the more I responded to that the more he began to instill control.

It is hard to separate the things I don't want to say and still explain how it worked. It took 5 years before my Owner flew me to meet him, eventually I moved to be near him.

I left out an awful lot but basically people can get something out of an online relationship. It simply depends on what you want out of it though, how content someone can be at being what is essentially part time.

Over half my post got deleted during my review of it, so it might be a bit choppy and nonsensical in places.



CaringandReal -> RE: On-line relationships. What is the deal? (7/16/2010 7:23:54 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

I have no experience with Second Life.  I'm a WOW player.  [8D]



Your conversation with Leadership reminded me of this little gem. :)



Zevar -> RE: On-line relationships. What is the deal? (7/16/2010 10:08:43 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Syrox

I personally don't understand on-line D/s M/s relationships at all.. how do they work? how do they benefit both parties?  This isnt an attempt to troll or be snarky, I just don't get it.

Maybe one of you has had one that worked... what was it that made it work for you? 


Understandably everyone has a different reason why they are willing to engage in an online relationship. I do not feign to know any specific answer for anyone. Discovering my own answers require daily rigorous internal personal work to achieve my individual answers that work for myself in a beneficial manner. I do not fault or criticize anyone for their choice to share in an online relationship or to avoid this form of relating. Relationships that are shared person to person in a material manner are of course the most fulfilling form of a relationship.

There is no perfect form of relating. It is instead a personal preference of each adult regarding the choice of how 2 adults decide to relate with one another. Obviously 2 adults can begin online and if there are indicators that the relating would serve a higher purpose to move toward an in person to person physical manner then that choice is best served through a mutual consensual decision in doing so.

It seems that some might believe that online relating allows for a speedier connection and a way to then physically connect with another in a manner that somehow magically excludes the rules that apply to in person relating. Some appear to think that they can behave in ways that they more than likely would not if were in person. Although some people act out in person regardless of their surroundings and in spite of what they have maintained with their exchanged words.

The human element of the ego perhaps played out in an unconscious manner might full well be a contributing factor for some when it is discovered that they lack integrity in their online relating. In person or not some people refuse to acknowledge human errors even when confronted. Thus many choose to avoid being accountable. This perhaps might be why some people prefer to seek out people online so that they can act out their inappropriate behaviors and avoid personal responsibility. For some it is perhaps more likely to be simply related to an online addiction thus they develop the calloused attitude of “ You’re not for me so I am on to the next person, click.” Carelessly discarding the humanness in all living breathing human beings, when repeatedly expressed, indeed does reflect indictors of character issues which surely would be best suited for an honest deed of self examination, IMO.

In essence this virtual setting does allow for some people to forget that the words typed are typed by a real human being with real feelings and valuable thoughts. The online virtual setting can be likened to the fast food connoisseur. I want mine served this way and take that off and oh yes add a little of this and get it to me now. Person to person, as in the material expression or body to body, there is less of a tendency for people to behave in ways that would otherwise be viewed as socially unacceptable and yet in virtual reality this sort of attitude is oft times tolerated and related when related to online conduct. Not by all of course. Yet for some this could have a grain or so of truth to it.

Again though, I do not pretend to know exactly why or what the deal is regarding online relating nor do I know what the deal is regarding in person relating for others. I can only speak for myself. IMO, adult to adult relating in the physical realm also requires a period of time of getting to know one another in a way that is unhurried. Online relating for some can move from 1 week or so of speaking and emailing or other forms of technical discussions to changing everything to some form of a physical level.

Granted I am a very patient man. Therefore, I believe that patience is a virtue, regardless. Thus even in an online relationship the necessity for the same boundary lines to be defined and communicated also need to be the same requirements for an in person to person relationship. Without such there would be no reason to change contact from an online person to person situation if the defined boundary lines are disrespected or otherwise marginalized.

Again it is clear that everyone has their own unique way of expressing who they are and what they need and have to offer regarding relating. If it be online or an in person situation, the need to yield to the natural unfoldment between 2 adults remains the same. I am a realist, nothing comes by way of luck! Everything requires informed decision making prior to choosing to make an investment in any form of relating, be it online OR person to person, materially speaking.

Patience discarded results in an irreparable disastrous outcome regardless how any relationship begins. Whoever is worthy of my time is worthy of my willingness to demonstrate patience, among other character traits. I say, don’t harvest the field until it is time, online or not. Notwithstanding, I am aware that I have said not anything of relevant substance regarding answering “ On-line relationships. What is the deal?”

Further, has an online M/s relationship worked for myself in a personal manner? I am sure one could if I am invested and there is a mutually shared understanding regarding what constitutes a relationship first and foremost. The dynamics of M/s relationship indeed deserve and require discussion. Nonetheless if there is nothing compatible between "me and thee" then naturally a solitary relationship remains of foremost significance. After all if I do not know who I am and deny my ability to be solitarily comfortably whole and complete in and of myself, then what do I have to offer to another online or not?

Edited at the suggestion of LadyPact. Hope the edit decreases the issue. If not suggestions are always welcome. Thank you, kindly.



LadyPact -> RE: On-line relationships. What is the deal? (7/16/2010 10:15:03 PM)

Zevar, your comments/responses would be so much easier to read if you would increase your font and eliminate to bold.

A Helpful Suggestion,


Lady Pact



SaintAllie -> RE: On-line relationships. What is the deal? (7/16/2010 11:47:54 PM)

also to Zevar..

If you could reduce the length of your replies a bit more?.. sometimes I bypass your replies due to their lengthiness..

this is in no means any comment as to the content of your responses..I find your general responses to be both relevant and thought provoking.

regards

Allie





Whenready -> RE: On-line relationships. What is the deal? (7/16/2010 11:54:22 PM)

I personally don't understand on-line D/s M/s relationships at all.. how do they work? how do they benefit both parties? This isnt an attempt to troll or be snarky, I just don't get it.

Maybe one of you has had one that worked... what was it that made it work for you?

I can only speak for myself but - for me - domination is of the mind. The physical is a bonus, which I thoroughly enjoy, but it is a submissive choosing to submit to me - which is a mental decision - rather than the physical act of - say - kneeling - which does it for me.

Given that - I see no difference in the meeting of MINDS - whether the method of communication is a voice, a fingertip, a crop, or a keyboard.



SaintAllie -> RE: On-line relationships. What is the deal? (7/17/2010 12:12:30 AM)

Can I just.. juxtapose briefly?


Whilst all people online here will have their own limits/boundaries and justifications.


We still all have our own ideals in our heads..are they restricted to online?... kept in our heads both online and never spoken out loud to our partners? Why is an online relationship often regarded as more work than a real one? Is that the reality?..


Allie





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