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RE: Alphas and Betas and D/s relationships - 7/16/2010 7:47:15 PM   
DarlingSavage


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quote:



For there to be leaders there must be followers. Followers make the leaders look good, especially the ones that follow with a cheerful giving heart


Yeah!


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RE: Alphas and Betas and D/s relationships - 7/16/2010 7:50:23 PM   
porcelaine


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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

I just wanted to say, it is rare to read something so well worded, and this was actually almost prose-like.....


Thank you for the compliment. I think I spilled a secret or two in that post.

~porcelaine


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RE: Alphas and Betas and D/s relationships - 7/16/2010 8:09:05 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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quote:

ORIGINAL: porcelaine

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

I just wanted to say, it is rare to read something so well worded, and this was actually almost prose-like.....


Thank you for the compliment. I think I spilled a secret or two in that post.

~porcelaine



It reminds me of Jane Austen in Pride and Prejudice... Lizzy is headstrong, "independent", and has no designs on meeting anyone... until her alpha male, Darcy, comes along...lol

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

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RE: Alphas and Betas and D/s relationships - 7/16/2010 8:12:09 PM   
KatyLied


Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		Alpha, beta, I do not know.  For me, submissiveness or submission is dependent upon the d-type in the relationship.  Sometimes I easily meld and it is mostly effortless.  This is what I enjoy about being submissive, it is dependent on the other person.  I will not force it or try to make it happen.  It is either there or it is not.  I've met dominants whom I could relate to, but they would not be able to dominate me because the meld simply was not there, it did not exist.  It is some sort of physical-chemical-mind cocktail that does not happen often for me.  Outside of this happening, I am not a passive person and I enjoy being in control of things.

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RE: Alphas and Betas and D/s relationships - 7/16/2010 8:16:35 PM   
juliaoceania


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From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		I hear ya Katy....

It is a chemistry thing for me too, just because someone identifies as a "dominant" does not mean I will feel one iota of submissive feeling towards them.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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RE: Alphas and Betas and D/s relationships - 7/16/2010 8:32:53 PM   
sexyred1


Posts: 8998
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quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

Alpha, beta, I do not know.  For me, submissiveness or submission is dependent upon the d-type in the relationship.  Sometimes I easily meld and it is mostly effortless.  This is what I enjoy about being submissive, it is dependent on the other person.  I will not force it or try to make it happen.  It is either there or it is not.  I've met dominants whom I could relate to, but they would not be able to dominate me because the meld simply was not there, it did not exist.  It is some sort of physical-chemical-mind cocktail that does not happen often for me.  Outside of this happening, I am not a passive person and I enjoy being in control of things.


Well said, Katy. I feel basically the same. It takes a very special sort of man to dominate me. You cannot fake this kind of thing.

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RE: Alphas and Betas and D/s relationships - 7/16/2010 8:43:17 PM   
tiggerspoohbear


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarlingSavage

If I'm in a relationship, I don't want to be the Alpha or the beta, I want to be the ONLY!


I haven't read past this post, so I don't know if it's been seconded, but I second that emotion.

I did the poly thing for about 2 months, I was promised I'd be the alpha sub and if things didn't work out, she'd go out the door.  I was dreaming when I thought that would actually happen.  They both left me, my heart in shreds and then stalked me for 2 months.  Involving the police was a last resort and had to be taken.  NEVER EVER AGAIN.  It's going to be Him and me.  We both agree on that and plan to stick to it.  It's hard enough to love one person without adding a third into the mix.

'Nuff said

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RE: Alphas and Betas and D/s relationships - 7/16/2010 8:56:11 PM   
porcelaine


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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

For there to be leaders there must be followers. Followers make the leaders look good, especially the ones that follow with a cheerful giving heart


In terms of slavery I view it along the lines of the invisible hand instead. For the machine to flow with precision you need both the yin and yang. And as the symbol expresses there's a fraction of each in both parties. I'm comfortable in my place but I've never viewed it as lesser in any manner. While I don't require the spotlight I'll assume it if necessary or instructed to do so. Our success is mutually derived.

quote:

It reminds me of Jane Austen in Pride and Prejudice... Lizzy is headstrong, "independent", and has no designs on meeting anyone... until her alpha male, Darcy, comes along...lol


Yeah she's a lot like yours truly. When I encounter a man that possesses the skill to conquer me I'm intrigued and a little flustered as well. His audacity is highly attractive. You need a big dose of that this way. But at the same time I wonder aloud, "who do you think you are?" and "how dare you!" I eat it up big time!

~porcelaine


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His will; my fate.

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RE: Alphas and Betas and D/s relationships - 7/16/2010 9:01:08 PM   
porcelaine


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quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

Alpha, beta, I do not know.  For me, submissiveness or submission is dependent upon the d-type in the relationship.  Sometimes I easily meld and it is mostly effortless.  This is what I enjoy about being submissive, it is dependent on the other person.  I will not force it or try to make it happen.  It is either there or it is not.  I've met dominants whom I could relate to, but they would not be able to dominate me because the meld simply was not there, it did not exist.  It is some sort of physical-chemical-mind cocktail that does not happen often for me.  Outside of this happening, I am not a passive person and I enjoy being in control of things.


It all hinges on him. I don't grow into the role. He compels its appearance or we can't relate in that manner. No matter what he brings to the table if I don't possess an inherent need to kneel and serve I never will. I know what brings that into fruition and there's a specific personality type that trips my switch. However, I need complementary relations and the ideal must be mutually expressed. He must be compelled to own and master me

~porcelaine

< Message edited by porcelaine -- 7/16/2010 9:03:38 PM >

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RE: Alphas and Betas and D/s relationships - 7/16/2010 9:20:03 PM   
juliaoceania


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From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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quote:

Yeah she's a lot like yours truly. When I encounter a man that possesses the skill to conquer me I'm intrigued and a little flustered as well. His audacity is highly attractive. You need a big dose of that this way. But at the same time I wonder aloud, "who do you think you are?" and "how dare you!" I eat it up big time!


Darcy is a hot character.. the archetypal dominant man

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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RE: Alphas and Betas and D/s relationships - 7/16/2010 9:28:21 PM   
DarlingSavage


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quote:

my heart in shreds


Poor baby!  I'm sorry you were hurt.  That's why I don't like those kinds of situations.  I know they won't work for me and I'm very jealous, anyway.  I haven't actually been in a poly relationship, but I know that that is how I am.  Maybe if the right people came along, maybe it could work for me, but it's not what I'm out there looking for.


_____________________________

<-- Easily amused.
<-- Easily impressed.

Strangers have the BEST candy!

Puppy dogs are my favorite people!


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Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Alphas and Betas and D/s relationships - 7/17/2010 5:34:45 AM   
CaringandReal


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Status: offline 		It's hard to understand this thread because I don't know what people are referring to when they say alpha and beta. At first I thought people meant type a or type b personalities, but it quickly became clear that this was not so, this isn't entirely about stress junkies vs. the easygoing, although there is some of that in your self descriptions.

So I turned to the CPI, and while its typology has alphas and betas, it also has gammas and deltas, and what some people are describing here as "beta" traits are described by that test as "delta" traits.

Are most people here thinking about the common bdsm usage in a polygamous relationship when they say alpha and beta, i.e. head of harem or master's favorite vs. the other girl(s)?

What fascinates me is wondering what would happen if the various submissives who identify as alpha were put in a group together, perhaps not a harem as many would be opposed to that, but perhaps some other social organization in which they had to work cohesively with each other and determine their own structure or pecking order. Who would come out on top, as the alpha of the alphas? I believe I know who I'd put my money on, but as a lover of peace and harmony (not to mention a coward), I am so not going to name a name! ;)

I do know exactly where I'd be. As close to the bottom as I could get without disgusting myself (which is quite a ways down, as I have a high tolerance for low) or disappointing somebody else who desired to be lower. And I'd make friendly comments from my position down there ("Hallo, up there! Don't forget to eat an apple occasionally. They are healthy! What? Shut up about the apples? Oh, all right.") and pull my own weight, but leave those tedious administrative details entirely to those who clearly relish them.

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RE: Alphas and Betas and D/s relationships - 7/17/2010 6:23:04 AM   
KatyLied


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From: Pennsylvania
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quote:

Darcy is a hot character.. the archetypal dominant man


OMG, I love Mr. Darcy.  He is hot, and he also has the cold characteristic that I find so appealing and interesting in a man.


_____________________________

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- Albert Einstein

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Alphas and Betas and D/s relationships - 7/17/2010 6:25:50 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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quote:

What fascinates me is wondering what would happen if the various submissives who identify as alpha were put in a group together, perhaps not a harem as many would be opposed to that, but perhaps some other social organization in which they had to work cohesively with each other and determine their own structure or pecking order. Who would come out on top, as the alpha of the alphas? I believe I know who I'd put my money on, but as a lover of peace and harmony (not to mention a coward), I am so not going to name a name! ;)


Question: do dommes or dominant men try to form a structure of "dominance"? I found it curious you would make this remark about submissives, why would we have trouble working more or less cohesively than any other sort of group?

I can tell you, most people try to not be responsible in my experience of working with others, or they take on responsibility because they enjoy power (these types often suck as bosses and leaders), and then there are those who don't step up and take control over something unless it is obvious no one else wants to or has the same capacity to.... this is when I step up.... which is often in my work-a-day life.

As far as the different types, I posted that there were earlier when talking wolf packs, but because we hear "alpha" and "beta" so often, not only here, but in other circumstances, I thought it would be more simple to discuss those two dichotomies.

< Message edited by juliaoceania -- 7/17/2010 6:26:16 AM >

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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RE: Alphas and Betas and D/s relationships - 7/17/2010 9:34:26 AM   
porcelaine


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CaringandReal

What fascinates me is wondering what would happen if the various submissives who identify as alpha were put in a group together, perhaps not a harem as many would be opposed to that, but perhaps some other social organization in which they had to work cohesively with each other and determine their own structure or pecking order. Who would come out on top, as the alpha of the alphas? I believe I know who I'd put my money on, but as a lover of peace and harmony (not to mention a coward), I am so not going to name a name! ;)


No matter how flat one attempts to form an organization there's always a pecking order. Some people naturally gravitate to positions of authority or levels of responsibility. In terms of the top dog so to speak, if the group is democratically oriented they'll often select the person that gets the job done and is willing to accept the headaches and responsibilities that come along with that. In other words, the one willing to make the sacrifices for the group's mission who's committed to furthering their cause. I'd also add in a line about visionary thinking that's sound and action oriented.


quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

I can tell you, most people try to not be responsible in my experience of working with others, or they take on responsibility because they enjoy power (these types often suck as bosses and leaders), and then there are those who don't step up and take control over something unless it is obvious no one else wants to or has the same capacity to.... this is when I step up.... which is often in my work-a-day life.


And there's always those that will take the ball and run with it because they can and they're darned good at it. I love observing people and I've seen that scenario play out in professional and social settings. Attend a training class and you'll see people rise to the occasion. Conferences bring forth the same personalities. And there's always one in the midst (or several if you're lucky) that enjoys talking but has no clue what he's speaking about. He desires to be the other but hasn't figured out how to go about it.

I think your assessment regarding responsibility has a glimmer of truth. I've walked into situations with no experience and catapulted forward purely because of my tenacity and networking skills. People dynamics contain many nuances and it isn't always dependent upon ones ability to lead, but the capacity to create situations that call attention to your talents and the ability to capitalize and seize opportunities to do such when they're available. One cannot escalate without someone above taking notice. I have often observed that women in positions of authority are more apt to promote those with a similar mindset. Reaching down does take place, but she'll only bolster the person she believes has the legs and mettle to succeed in the place the individual is being invited to join.

~porcelaine



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RE: Alphas and Betas and D/s relationships - 7/17/2010 10:04:30 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
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From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

quote:

Darcy is a hot character.. the archetypal dominant man


OMG, I love Mr. Darcy.  He is hot, and he also has the cold characteristic that I find so appealing and interesting in a man.



But when he decides what he wants, there is nothing he will not do to get it... like when he searches for the younger sister to make Wickim marry her... yes, I have read the book a few times (I am officially a nerd)

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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RE: Alphas and Betas and D/s relationships - 7/17/2010 10:08:59 AM   
juliaoceania


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From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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quote:

I have often observed that women in positions of authority are more apt to promote those with a similar mindset. Reaching down does take place, but she'll only bolster the person she believes has the legs and mettle to succeed in the place the individual is being invited to join.


One of the most rewarding things I do is give advice on how to navigate grad school to young women who ask me. I feel it is important to reach behind and hold the door open for others, and I think that spirit is noticed by those who are in the position to advance me, although that is not the motivation for why I do it..I genuinely think there is enough credit, praise, and applause for everyone.....

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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RE: Alphas and Betas and D/s relationships - 7/17/2010 10:21:18 AM   
leadership527


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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
I know I am not a domme, I have no desire to top anyone, for example... it is just that I don't think I am submissive until someone I feel is my idea of what a man should be comes along...
In the end, doesn't this make absolute sense though. When considered from a scientific basis outside the parameters of BDSM, then dominance and submission is an assertion of relative ranking. So if you are stranded on a desert island all by yourself, you can't be either dominant or submissive. It's going to take a specific other individual to compare against.

When I say that Carol is "generally submissive", all that that means is that for most random strangers she meets, she will assume a submissive posture. But in a vacuum, she's still "neither" and you never know when one of those rare individuals will come along that'll make her take on a dominant mindset.

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I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
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RE: Alphas and Betas and D/s relationships - 7/17/2010 10:39:59 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
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From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
I know I am not a domme, I have no desire to top anyone, for example... it is just that I don't think I am submissive until someone I feel is my idea of what a man should be comes along...
In the end, doesn't this make absolute sense though. When considered from a scientific basis outside the parameters of BDSM, then dominance and submission is an assertion of relative ranking. So if you are stranded on a desert island all by yourself, you can't be either dominant or submissive. It's going to take a specific other individual to compare against.

When I say that Carol is "generally submissive", all that that means is that for most random strangers she meets, she will assume a submissive posture. But in a vacuum, she's still "neither" and you never know when one of those rare individuals will come along that'll make her take on a dominant mindset.


I think that the entirety of the post states what you just did, and I do not know how what I said does not make sense. I do not feel submissive towards others for the most part. It takes a certain person to bring that out in me... I do not know what the contradiction is

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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RE: Alphas and Betas and D/s relationships - 7/17/2010 10:44:22 AM   
jujubeeMB


Posts: 723
Joined: 1/8/2010
Status: offline 		I really like this thread. I'm totally an alpha personality - I tend to be the leader and the most intense debater and the decision-maker in my relationships - but what I've been seeking my whole life is someone tougher, smarter, stronger and righter than me, if that makes sense. I think I said it in another post, but I want to rule the kingdom while a bigger, stronger ruler rules me. I may be verging on dorky now...

Oh, and bringing up Darcy is not fair - I'm pretty sure that book ruined my ability to ever date any man on earth

(in reply to leadership527)
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