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RE: Alphas and Betas and D/s relationships - 7/22/2010 9:44:44 AM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

quote:

I am...not mentally ill.... I think you need to go deeper. When you think to yourself you think as an individual not a collective.

If you do not identify with this thread, that is so very very cool! Right on! I respect that, and all! But guess what? I am not justifying my personal reflections about what attracts me to the opposite sex with you, it isn't necessary. This isn't a politics and religion thread, after all.

quote:

You have read my post wrong... I am saying exactly the same as you.. We know what we want...we look for what we want...not what someone else wants. If we find someone that fulfills our needs we can have a relationship. But no matter how submissive you think yourself YOU choose who to have a relationship with... not someone else. This means you are an equal part of any relationship and there is no alpha and beta in reality.

Then in your mind you see no alpha and beta or omega or gamma or any other different types of personalities. You see no one who has natural leadership ability, or someone who is more adventurous or someone who is more ambitious? I see people who have different personality traits, and I have noticed that there is a nexus of traits a man can possess that appeal to me on the primal level. We are talking sex drive and reproduction and what makes us "hot", for me that is someone who is more ambitious, intelligent, driven, and successful than I am.... this draws me in.

Now you may not like the way I phrase it, or that I am discussing it, or the way I view it, and maybe you find nothing of an inner "truth" to it for you, but you can't really tell me that the way I view it is "wrong" either...

BTW, there are lone wolves, just so you know, pack animals indeed have those who do not "fit" in their ranks

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to kdsub)

Post #: 61

RE: Alphas and Betas and D/s relationships - 7/22/2010 10:06:20 AM

kdsub

Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline

I do identify with this thread juliaoceania...must I agree with you to comment? I am also not arguing with you about your personal reflections I am just expressing my opinion for you and others to consider...agree or don't.

Of course there are different personalities that is not me point. I am talking choice and the power in the relationship. There is always equal power in any relationship so there is no “one” in charge.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 62

RE: Alphas and Betas and D/s relationships - 7/22/2010 10:11:35 AM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

leadership is a transactional sort of interaction. I suppose I do not understand your points because there was nothing in any of my posts that said there is "no choice"... I am baffled, frankly... I do not think I have a "choice" about what attracts me, which this is all about what attracts us, I only choose how I want to respond to that attraction

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to kdsub)

Post #: 63

RE: Alphas and Betas and D/s relationships - 7/22/2010 10:15:53 AM

realwhiteknight

Posts: 428
Joined: 7/13/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Of course there are different personalities that is not me point. I am talking choice and the power in the relationship. There is always equal power in any relationship so there is no “one” in charge.

Well, I would have to disagree with this entirely. If this was the case, abusive relationships would simply not exist. For a slew of psychological reasons, people get entangled and enmired in messy, unhealthy, terrible, damaging relationships with another. (A few of which have been delved into on the boards quite recently.) People are connected to others in ways they don't want to be...all the time, and the one who has more power takes advantage of this. Attraction is often the worst of this because we *can't* help who we like, whereas we can leave a job with a boss we don't like. In fact, to some degree, almost all relationships in general involve a person having more or less power over the other. Just because a person gives consent- for example, takes a job and stays there, despite having an ASS of a boss- does not mean equal power.

(Not trying to be picky, just interested to why you could make such an extreme statement.)

_____________________________

I carry a log - yes. Is it funny to you? It is not to me.

Behind all things are reasons. Reasons can even explain the absurd. Do we have the time to learn the reasons behind the human being's varied behavior? I think not. Some take the time.

(in reply to kdsub)

Post #: 64

RE: Alphas and Betas and D/s relationships - 7/22/2010 10:32:09 AM

kdsub

Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline

We do seem to have a problem understanding each other...face to face it would be different because we could explain more and follow body language. It is strange we are even arguing because I agree with you on most every point. I was making your point in a different way. You are a strong woman who knows what you want in another yet at one time you considered yourself submissive. I am saying the classifications we use like alpha beta, Dom and sub, have nothing to do with the true equal power in a relationship.

If your mate does not exhibit the personality traits you want and need the relationship will end. The ultimate power in any relationship is the ability to end it. Of course you have the right to call these traits in your mate and yourself anything you want…and that includes alpha and beta. I’m not arguing with you just stating my distain for words that can be misinterpreted and classifications that don’t truly reflect a persons personality.

I believe in the talk…meet… talk…then decide does this person have what I want…and the hell with classifications.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 65

RE: Alphas and Betas and D/s relationships - 7/22/2010 10:43:15 AM

kdsub

Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline

I do understand your points but in relationships they only apply to the mentally ill or criminal activity... In the work place if you have an abusive situation you may live with it out of necessity but you find another job in time...unless YOU choose to stay and be abused.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to realwhiteknight)

Post #: 66

RE: Alphas and Betas and D/s relationships - 7/22/2010 11:14:32 AM

realwhiteknight

Posts: 428
Joined: 7/13/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I do understand your points but in relationships they only apply to the mentally ill or criminal activity... In the work place if you have an abusive situation you may live with it out of necessity but you find another job in time...unless YOU choose to stay and be abused.

In relationships they don't apply to only the mentally ill or criminal, they often apply to those who are emotionally damaged or have low self esteem, or even those who are too isolated, naive or even poor to make an informed decision as to who is a danger or escape the situation. You should read some literature out there on the subject; there's alot of it, and it will make the strong case that it is NOT only mentally ill people who enter abusive relationships (as victims or abusers). There is even alot of abuse that is not technically 'criminal', such as verbal abuse and/or cheating.

You miss my points on alot of levels. All I was saying was that equal power does NOT always exist in every relationship. I made the point about the ASS boss to show that your quitting does not disallow him from having been an ASS to you- he still has more power than you *in* that relationship. Power and power to leave are not the same thing. And there are plenty of circumstances when a person does not even have the power to leave, for al sorts of reasons.

< Message edited by realwhiteknight -- 7/22/2010 11:17:03 AM >

_____________________________

I carry a log - yes. Is it funny to you? It is not to me.

Behind all things are reasons. Reasons can even explain the absurd. Do we have the time to learn the reasons behind the human being's varied behavior? I think not. Some take the time.

(in reply to kdsub)

Post #: 67

RE: Alphas and Betas and D/s relationships - 7/22/2010 11:44:45 AM

kdsub

Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: realwhiteknight

In relationships they don't apply to only the mentally ill or criminal, they often apply to those who are emotionally damaged or have low self esteem, or even those who are too isolated, naive or even poor to make an informed decision as to who is a danger or escape the situation.

You have described someone mentally ill or someone is acting in a criminal manner towards them

quote:

You miss my points on alot of levels. All I was saying was that equal power does NOT always exist in every relationship. I made the point about the ASS boss to show that your quitting does not disallow him from having been an ASS to you- he still has more power than you *in* that relationship. Power and power to leave are not the same thing. And there are plenty of circumstances when a person does not even have the power to leave, for al sorts of reasons.

But you see it does...As an example if the boss says you will kiss my ass every morning...I say bye... there was no power over me I didn't have a job when I came there. He did not get to exercise his power over me because I choose not to let him...or her...much better when it comes to kissing ass...

But you do make some good points… there are always exceptions to any way of thinking and you have made me think a little more.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to realwhiteknight)

Post #: 68

RE: Alphas and Betas and D/s relationships - 7/22/2010 11:50:08 AM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

quote:

You are a strong woman who knows what you want in another yet at one time you considered yourself submissive.

The genesis of this thread.... I met someone recently that is strong, successful, ambitious, extremely educated... etc etc etc... and I felt submissive to him...

I suppose I am wondering why I feel so unsubmissive to almost everyone, but once in a while someone I perceive as "more than" me gets to me... if that makes sense...

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to kdsub)

Post #: 69

RE: Alphas and Betas and D/s relationships - 7/22/2010 12:00:38 PM

crazyml

Posts: 5568
Joined: 7/3/2007
Status: offline

edited to remove pointless snarky statement

< Message edited by crazyml -- 7/22/2010 12:02:16 PM >

_____________________________

Remember.... There's always somewhere on the planet where it's jackass o'clock.

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 70

RE: Alphas and Betas and D/s relationships - 7/22/2010 12:01:12 PM

kdsub

Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

I suppose I am wondering why I feel so unsubmissive to almost everyone

I would never of thought that...

You always make sense to me and I am going to classify you as a "juliaoceaniaistic"

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 71

RE: Alphas and Betas and D/s relationships - 7/22/2010 12:03:39 PM

realwhiteknight

Posts: 428
Joined: 7/13/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

ORIGINAL: realwhiteknight

In relationships they don't apply to only the mentally ill or criminal, they often apply to those who are emotionally damaged or have low self esteem, or even those who are too isolated, naive or even poor to make an informed decision as to who is a danger or escape the situation.

You have described someone mentally ill or someone is acting in a criminal manner towards them

Wow.

< Message edited by realwhiteknight -- 7/22/2010 12:07:29 PM >

_____________________________

I carry a log - yes. Is it funny to you? It is not to me.

Behind all things are reasons. Reasons can even explain the absurd. Do we have the time to learn the reasons behind the human being's varied behavior? I think not. Some take the time.

(in reply to kdsub)

Post #: 72

RE: Alphas and Betas and D/s relationships - 7/22/2010 12:06:08 PM

realwhiteknight

Posts: 428
Joined: 7/13/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

You are a strong woman who knows what you want in another yet at one time you considered yourself submissive.

The genesis of this thread.... I met someone recently that is strong, successful, ambitious, extremely educated... etc etc etc... and I felt submissive to him...

I suppose I am wondering why I feel so unsubmissive to almost everyone, but once in a while someone I perceive as "more than" me gets to me... if that makes sense...

It's hard as hell to find someone that gets to you..I know it is for me. Let's be honest, most people are kinda dumb.

That leaves us feeling isolated, unable to connect.. there's a small amount of people we can connect with..but how many of them have the qualities we are attracted to? Even less. When we find someone who is that rare, we are attracted, and that feeling I suppose just has to do with innate biology? Feeling submissive only to those who are 'better' than us...part of attraction. I think there's probably something to connecting attracttion to needing the guy to be strong and assertive, comparatively moreso than us women..

< Message edited by realwhiteknight -- 7/22/2010 12:12:16 PM >

_____________________________

I carry a log - yes. Is it funny to you? It is not to me.

Behind all things are reasons. Reasons can even explain the absurd. Do we have the time to learn the reasons behind the human being's varied behavior? I think not. Some take the time.

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 73

RE: Alphas and Betas and D/s relationships - 7/22/2010 1:57:06 PM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

I suppose I am wondering why I feel so unsubmissive to almost everyone

I would never of thought that... You always make sense to me and I am going to classify you as a "juliaoceaniaistic"

Butch

Awwww .... thanks

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to kdsub)

Post #: 74

RE: Alphas and Betas and D/s relationships - 7/22/2010 1:58:18 PM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

quote:

Feeling submissive only to those who are 'better' than us...part of attraction. I think there's probably something to connecting attracttion to needing the guy to be strong and assertive, comparatively moreso than us women..

It reduces me to being very soft, feminine, and compliant...lol

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to realwhiteknight)

Post #: 75

RE: Alphas and Betas and D/s relationships - 7/22/2010 2:27:01 PM

realwhiteknight

Posts: 428
Joined: 7/13/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

Feeling submissive only to those who are 'better' than us...part of attraction. I think there's probably something to connecting attracttion to needing the guy to be strong and assertive, comparatively moreso than us women..

It reduces me to being very soft, feminine, and compliant...lol

Haha I often find I get more quiet and more offish, a weird thing psychologically because 1. I am very hyper and talkative in real life (you couldn't have guessed!) and 2. I suppose it's a defense mechanism to protect myself because I hate feeling attracted (I feel vulnerable), I feel resentful of the power he has over me. So the walls go up. I also get more serious and focused too. Hmm that's pretty weird that I figured that out just now...

_____________________________

I carry a log - yes. Is it funny to you? It is not to me.

Behind all things are reasons. Reasons can even explain the absurd. Do we have the time to learn the reasons behind the human being's varied behavior? I think not. Some take the time.

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 76

RE: Alphas and Betas and D/s relationships - 7/22/2010 3:35:09 PM

sexyred1

Posts: 8998
Joined: 8/9/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

Feeling submissive only to those who are 'better' than us...part of attraction. I think there's probably something to connecting attracttion to needing the guy to be strong and assertive, comparatively moreso than us women..

It reduces me to being very soft, feminine, and compliant...lol

I am curious as to your feelings on the concept of feeling submissive to someone who is "better". I cannot relate to that at all, simply because I do not feel anyone is "better" than me. In what way would they be better?

Perhaps it is more accurate to say that you feel more submissive or only submissive to someone you admire, who taps into that specialness of you, who seems to be on the same plane as you in wanting the same type of dynamic.

That is how I see it for myself.

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 77

RE: Alphas and Betas and D/s relationships - 7/22/2010 3:39:04 PM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: sexyred1

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

Feeling submissive only to those who are 'better' than us...part of attraction. I think there's probably something to connecting attracttion to needing the guy to be strong and assertive, comparatively moreso than us women..

It reduces me to being very soft, feminine, and compliant...lol

I am curious as to your feelings on the concept of feeling submissive to someone who is "better". I cannot relate to that at all, simply because I do not feel anyone is "better" than me. In what way would they be better?

Perhaps it is more accurate to say that you feel more submissive or only submissive to someone you admire, who taps into that specialness of you, who seems to be on the same plane as you in wanting the same type of dynamic.

That is how I see it for myself.

My words were "more than"... not "better than"... More of what I want to become... if that makes any sense... I want someone that has achieved things I have not, who is more of himself, who can help me become more than I am... he has to be more to help me become more.

< Message edited by juliaoceania -- 7/22/2010 3:41:57 PM >

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to sexyred1)

Post #: 78

RE: Alphas and Betas and D/s relationships - 7/22/2010 3:44:03 PM

sexyred1

Posts: 8998
Joined: 8/9/2007
Status: offline

I know your words were not "better than" I was just curious about that as a concept. In terms of someone accomplishing more than me, it is interesting, I have found it the other way around in many cases, where I was the more accomplished but something in the man still beckoned my submission; perhaps his innate ability to tap into that side of me?

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 79

RE: Alphas and Betas and D/s relationships - 7/22/2010 3:57:10 PM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

Maybe that is why I like the Daddy Dom thing... minus the age play

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to sexyred1)

Post #: 80

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